The Modern Day Gentleman
The following article was originally delivered as a speech back in 2004 during my time competing in high school speech and debate. It serves as Part One of our “When Lancelot Comes Riding” series.
Noblesse Oblige – with nobility comes obligation – a French term intended to convey that those who posses strength, intelligence or wealth are responsible to use such privileges to serve the common good.
It was out of this term that the concept of a gentleman sprang forth. A gentleman was a man who took care to serve and protect those weaker than him – either physically, mentally, or financially – a man who showed respect and consideration for others both by courteous manners and good grooming. It is for this man, or should I say, his modern day equivalent, that I am an advocate today. The gentleman has all but disappeared in our day, and it is high time we brought him back.
In my studies I have found the most neglected aspect of gentlemanly behavior is that of male interaction with the fair gender – in modern English: what it means to be a gentleman toward a lady. Narrowing my subject to this aspect I will also focus, though to a lesser extent, on the responsibility of the ladies to respond to and encourage the proper behavior of the gentleman in their lives, and finally, on both the gentleman and the lady in their responsibility towards God in this area.
Is Chivalry Dead?
For decades gentlemanly behavior has experienced decline. Not only are men becoming less apt to offer service, but ladies are much more likely to refuse it. A man gives up when his assistance is consistently shunned and so does the poor lady left sitting in the car waiting for a gentleman to open the door.
In an attempt to remedy this sad situation I could, as many do, lay out the rules of basic etiquette, encompassing the obvious doors, chairs, boxes, bags, and other such practices. Yet while all of these now uncommon courtesies are admirable they are merely signs that one is a gentleman or lady, not the means of becoming one. And as such a mere review of the appropriate actions is unlikely to cause lasting change.
You see, gentlemanly behavior is an attitude of heart, not a set of rules. Once the proper mindset is attained opening doors, offering chairs, carrying baggage, and the like become merely the predictable consequences of the changed attitude, and become voluntary rather than compulsory.
The New Attitude
To begin, the change in attitude is this – and I am speaking now to the gentlemen – the change in attitude is simply a decision to put the ladies first; their needs and their comfort comes before yours. That is all there is to it.
Now the reason that this change in attitude causes such a huge revolution in someone’s actions is because this mindset is the motivation behind every gentlemanly action. When you offer your chair to a standing lady you are putting her comfort before your own. It is exactly the same with carrying baggage. Opening doors is putting them first by letting them go first.
Name any gentlemanly behavior and I guarantee you will find this mindset there in some shape or form. When a man puts the needs and comfort of women ahead of his own he is well on his way to becoming a gentleman. In fact, he has already arrived and has only to allow consistency to establish his reputation.
Our Greatest Enemy
So, you might be asking, if it’s all so simple why don’t we all experience this wonderful transformation? If this is all it takes why don’t we see gentleman popping up like daisies all around us?
The answer, unfortunately, is that we all contain within ourselves a deeply entrenched root of self-centeredness. Self-centeredness is the antithesis of what makes a man a gentleman. And until it is overcome, consistency in gentlemanly behavior is impossible.
While self-centeredness might not cause you to consciously choose not to open a door, it will instead keep you from even noticing that the door needs to be opened! Self-centeredness blinds you to the standing female and the woman burdened with her heavy boxes because if your mind is absorbed with how to make yourself more comfortable, how to satisfy your own needs, it cannot at the same time be focused on serving others.
So, while self-centeredness looks to serve yourself, a gentleman looks for opportunities to be helpful to others. While self-centeredness attempts to avoid inconvenience, a gentleman is quick to deny himself and accept interruption of his own plans and interests. He is willing to be “put out” and inconvenienced in order to serve others.
Our Primary Battleground
For many of us young men this attitude will mainly be seen in our interaction with our sisters and mothers. They are not guinea pigs or practice dummies! They are the real deal, the main event. Instead of viewing your mother and sisters as some vague exception to the status of ladies, consider them the primary battleground on which you conquer your self-centeredness and lay hold of the calling of a gentleman. Nowhere else do your true colors wave so brightly, and nowhere else is your gentlemanly behavior more deserved or more commendable.
Brothers, serve your sisters. Sons, serve your mothers. Be quick to come to their aid, to offer them your chair, to open the door for them. Ask how you can help them and do it. Think sisters and mothers, then others.
My father once told me that the way I treat my sister and my mother now is the way I’ll treat my wife some day when I’m married. Once the honeymoon is over and the glamour has worn off, the relationships my marriage will most closely resemble will be the ones I have now towards my sister and my mother.
If I really think that I can treat my mother and sister terribly now and then suddenly turn self-centeredness off and turn kindness on — and keep it on — once I get married, then I’m only fooling myself. And if you think that you can do the same your hope is equally false.
An Appeal To The Ladies
Now, I appeal to the ladies, and especially to my sisters in Christ. If you don’t embrace your role as the recipient of our consideration we cannot act effectively as the gentlemen. You can show your care and serve your brothers by making it possible for us to become the kind of men God wants us to be.
Give us opportunities to do the right thing. We may need subtle hints such as, “Will you open the door for me please?” You know we need to be reminded sometimes. And when you can see us trying, please encourage us and allow us to serve you. If our actions are made from a servants-heart don’t take it as implying that we don’t think you can open the door or carry the box. You may not need our help, but we need to help. Please don’t take your side of this process lightly, your response is just as important, as our initiative.
Unique And Critical Roles
Men and women have unique responsibilities. Both are necessary and both are sorely lacking in our society today. We live in a society where chivalry has all but died, where the common man has become the common person, and any differences in gender roles are downplayed. Yet among God’s people I will say that gentlemanly behavior should not be dead, that differences in roles are not discriminatory but complementary; conveying value and purpose for both man and woman.
Dr. Albert Mohler, President of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, in a message presented at the New Attitude Conference 2004, said:
“Among God’s people we understand that a man is to protect a women; to protect a women’s honor; to protect a woman’s heart; to protect a woman’s reputation; sometimes even to protect a woman’s health, her safety. Guys, that’s our job, God gave it to us. Woe unto the man who fails in that responsibility.”
Among God’s people we must understand that the woman is called to be supportive of godly manhood and her role is integral to the process by which men fulfill their responsibilities as men. Gentlemanly behavior is a training ground of Christian character for both men and women.
Depending on each other’s actions we will either going to succeed or fail in fulfilling our responsibilities. We must refuse to treat this issue just like another lifestyle option! In reality it is a requirement made for us by God – and by God’s grace we can succeed.
Closing Thoughts
Just as with anything else worthwhile the fulfillment of our responsibility to be gentlemen comes at a price. Girls, you may be inconvenienced at first as you allow the guys to get on their feet. Guys, the price that you will have to pay will be your self-centeredness, your convenience, your comfort – in a thousand little ways – in order to put the ladies first, to ensure their convenience, their comfort, and God’s favor.
We are either part of the problem or part of the solution. By holding faithfully God’s plan for men and women, let us make this transformation.
Read: Part One / Part Two / Part Three / Part Four / Part Five
August 26th, 2006 at 5:45 am
Thats a very inspiring and thought provoking speech, Brett. Good job.
I hope I will make a habit of this correct behavior. It will be neat to see more ladylike and gentlemanly behavior among Rebelutionaries.
August 26th, 2006 at 6:40 am
Oh this post speaks truth to so many young people. And some are unaware of just how much the women of today need this messege too. Feminism is rank within our society, and the ideas of ‘equality’ are fused into our media and education systems. You’re absolutely right about the fact that its a mindset, not just a list of common curtesies.
Thank You
August 26th, 2006 at 7:17 am
This is another excellent post.
I know it is a big issue for me to let guys do stuff like that for me, not that it happens much anymore these days. But recently I had an issue involving crutches and I think that made some guys at my church think, “Oh yeah, she might need help with the door.” It was hard for me to accept help, so this is an area that I’ve felt convicted that I need to work on.
Thanks for the reminder!
August 26th, 2006 at 12:33 pm
Wowsa! Great stuff. Hee hee - I want my brothers to read this now, but you’re right in saying that the responsibilty rests on both the guys and the girls. And with God’s grace, we’ll all get better at this serving thing. Thanks for the thoughts!
August 26th, 2006 at 2:27 pm
Great analysis, Brett. It is disappointing to see young men growing up without the least bit of understanding of how to treat young ladies. But, because of this, it also makes those who are gentleman to stand out, thus shining God’s light to a dark world.
Excellent post. And thank you for your sensitive heart towards this topic. It is rare these days, but a blessing to see. Your young sisters in Christ appreciate it.
August 26th, 2006 at 3:04 pm
I love how you indentified the cause of the problem: self-centeredness that manifests itself through carelessness and thoughtlessness.
We forget. We need to be reminded. That’s really the crux of the issue.
It would be great to see a post about how ladies can develop/show consideration toward gentlemen, as well, becaues the struggle with self-centeredness is quite relevant for us, as well That’s been my biggest are of conviction lately.
August 26th, 2006 at 4:49 pm
Everyone: I’m glad this message was a blessing to you. I am planning on following up on this post with another one which will address some of the issues you have mentioned. God bless!
August 26th, 2006 at 5:05 pm
Great speech! I know that it does take work from both the ladies and gentlemen. I am accustomed to accepting courtesies from my father and brother, but it is harder with other people. There is so much room to grow!
August 26th, 2006 at 6:25 pm
Thanks for posting this wonderful speech! It was really an encouragement to see that chivalry is still alive and well among some. I look forward to the follow-up post.
God has blessed me with a wonderful, gentlemanly brother… who just went to college. I miss him so!
August 26th, 2006 at 6:41 pm
I applaud you Brett for given this speech.It is a much needed massege for both,genders.I`ll be looking forward to a post on ladylikeness. I know that this is what I`m striving for…
August 26th, 2006 at 6:46 pm
Hey! Great Post!
Notice anything though as you read the comments?? ‘Cept for Brett, everyone that has commented has been a girl. I just found that interesting…
anyway, let me just say I really appreciate the gentlemen that a know and have known!
Our culture tells us that we girls aren’t worth a whole lot as girls, in fact we are worth a whole lot more if we act like men and do jobs just like them. The culture puts almost no value on those of us who aspire to be homemakers someday. But when I read a post like this, or when a guy shows what a gentleman he is, I know that there are still guys out there that appreciate the fact that I’ve chosen to be a real girl! thanks Brett, for a great post!!!
August 26th, 2006 at 7:10 pm
Great post! I can’t wait to see the next post! It seems like it so easy for us, as ladies, to just grow acustomed to getting our own doors, and carrying our own bags. It’s refreshing to see guys who still care about being Godly gentlemen. Thanks.
August 26th, 2006 at 8:06 pm
In the movie, A Man Called Peter, soon to be Mrs. Catherine Marshall makes a speech that is a great message every girl and woman needs to hear today. If I get a chance I will post it on m y blog.
My favorite part of her speech is when she says, “Woman had to step down to be equal with men.” Her point is Christianity has always treated women very well, and because of the feminist movement, women have lost that special treatment.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:29 am
Gabby,I agree with you.I`m glad that I`m a young woman,yet the world demands that women be someone who they are not.The results are,well evident;divorce,broken families,children uncared for,ect.It is a great encourgament to know that there are gentlement out there who will see me and treat me like the lady that I am.
August 27th, 2006 at 4:27 am
I am also surprised that only girls have commented:-) But, since I have three younger brothers I should be sure to *help* them along in this area. I.e. make them open the doors, carry my stuff, etc. They are usually very open to it but since they are so little they just don’t think about it that much.
August 27th, 2006 at 6:40 am
Hi guys,
nice post!! Judging from the comments, though, we need more guys reading this article. Why is it always the case that more women than men seem to read/think about these things?
One of my workmates ( a 40-something male, who’s not a Christian) recently went to open the door for one of our female colleagues - she looked him in the eye and with contempt said ‘Get over yourself!’. I was surprised when I heard about it, but it’s proof that this kind of situation does occur. Ladies, please be gracious when we try and help!!
In the article, you mentioned that the response is crucial when help is offered - I have found this to be true of both men and women. I know of many men who do not willingly accept help when it’s offered - if they’re sick, or injured, etc. alot of guys have trouble saying ‘yeah, I’d appreciate your help. thanks!!’
I think this issue connects to a deeper question of how you value yourself. If your value of yourself is based on what you can do, what you can achieve, and how capable you are (and let’s face it, we’re all guilty of this to some extent) then you will have difficulty accepting help from others. If your value is based on the fact that you are created and loved by God, then you should be in a much more secure place. Just a thought…
August 27th, 2006 at 7:12 am
Great speech! This is definitely an issue that needs to be addressed, as much for the girls as the guys. I have noticed over the past several years that guys I grew up with who would once-upon-a-time have offered a girl a seat when she enters a room, or offered to carry her bags/books, have ceased doing so, and I think it’s a shame our society has quenched the role of the gentleman. I look forward greatly to the follow-up post!
August 28th, 2006 at 2:15 am
I feel like I’m repeating what everyone else said (except that I’m a guy), but that was great post.
The idea of gentlemanlike behavior being centered around self-centeredness is something that I wouldn’t have thought of. It’s not that I don’t agree with it, it’s just that I wasn’t raised that way, and neither was my dad. I would like to say that I’m a gentleman, but if I think about it, I’m not anywhere near being comparable to its original deffinition (besides the fact that a girl I know rated me at 5 on a 1-10 scale).
Very interested in seeing the next post!
August 28th, 2006 at 2:16 am
That was a great post Brett!
The response of us ladies is definatly very crucial. My mom always says, “If ladies would be ladies, than men would be men.”
But yes, lets be rebelutionaries and stand out as different! 
I’ve always appreciated being treated like a lady, maybe it is because I grew up with gentlemenly brothers.
August 28th, 2006 at 4:08 am
Hey, very nice. I totally agree with you and I’ve tried to maintain a gentlemanly behavior. And you have a good point that our mothers and sisters aren’t guinea pigs. It’s a lot easier to treat other girls kindly than it is to my female family members. It’s something I need to work on. thanks for the good speech and the reminder, keep it up.
August 29th, 2006 at 9:12 am
This is wonderful! I want to send it to all of my brothers and sisters in Christ! I hope everyone who reads it will take it to heart.
August 29th, 2006 at 11:12 am
Thank you so much! I now have a renewed spirit and a new focus. I need to focus more on others and being selfless and humble. I thank you for writing this.
~Levi
September 1st, 2006 at 4:07 am
Thanks for that great reminder!
September 2nd, 2006 at 4:17 pm
Thanks for your sharing your heart in the matter! I know I have greatly failed in my role as a gentleman and this has renewed some focus in my life.
September 6th, 2006 at 7:39 pm
[…] You see, there is no offense in humbly offering to serve someone. Just like there’s no offense in lovingly giving someone a gift. If men and women can embrace an accurate understanding of the unspoken message of chivalry, gentlemen and their gifts will thrive. Read: Part One / Part Two / Part Three / Part Four […]
September 7th, 2006 at 3:13 pm
[…] In the first installment of our series I focused mainly on the heart attitude that young men need in order to fulfill their calling as gentlemen. In this post I would like to focus on the young women, and specifically on the first of two common but wrong assumptions they can have when Lancelot comes riding. “I Wouldn’t Want To Inconvenience You” […]
September 9th, 2006 at 8:25 pm
Count me as another guy agreeing to this post.
September 9th, 2006 at 9:10 pm
[…] Daniel, age four, is more of a man than most adult men. He reports on three ways he takes care of the ladies in his family and challenges us all. Thank you to reader, Danielle, for recommending this video in light of our current series on chivalry. […]
September 11th, 2006 at 8:13 pm
This is an awesome post, Brett!
I know there are a few guys here & there who really do strive to be gentlemen, but they often seem very few & far between. You’ve done a great job of summing up how & why they fall short. But you also helped me see how/why all us girls who wonder why there aren’t enough gentlemen to go ’round anymore are, in part, responsible for (or atleast a contributing factor of) this sad state of affairs.
Thanks!
Great insightful comments, as well, All!
September 16th, 2006 at 2:21 pm
[…] The Gospel is the solution to counterfeit chivalry, because Jesus Christ took upon Himself all of our selfishness and pride and died the death our sin deserves. He endured the wrath of God, and rose from the dead so that by believing in Him and in the sufficiency of His sacrifice, we might “die” to our sin and live a new life of freedom — freedom to love others as we have been loved. Read: Part One / Part Two / Part Three / Part Four / Part Five […]
September 19th, 2006 at 7:04 am
That was incredible! And you are so right! Part of the problem is us, girls, who try to be “independent”. Your post was really encouraging to me.
September 20th, 2006 at 5:22 am
Thank you, Brett; I am greatly encouraged.
September 24th, 2006 at 4:48 pm
That was great! I know I often feel like my ability is insulted when I accept a favor from a guy. I know I’ve even gotten upset when guys do things for me. Thank you for putting in that you don’t think we can’t do things on our own and that you’re just being gentlemen. That makes me feel a lot better about accepting favors.
September 25th, 2006 at 11:48 am
Wow, I must agree– this a spectacular article.
But ouch. Being “the lady” will take some work, espicially for me. Add that to my ‘list of goals’.
Thank you again for the post. God bless! =)
September 25th, 2006 at 4:26 pm
I loved this article I think it’s encouraging to both guys and ladies. Although I don’t have a hard time accpeting an open door or an offered chair, I have to admit that asking a guys to open a door for me or to let me sit in the seat he’s in would feel quite awkward. I would feel somewhat selfish asking for that to be done for me instead of it being offered….
September 26th, 2006 at 11:11 am
I love encouraging my brothers in gentlemenly behavior, whether it be carrying the heaviest grocery bags or changing a lightbulb. The more I do it the more I see them delight in being strong and clever, as I assure them they are when they do these things.
October 3rd, 2006 at 8:54 am
I appreciate your article immensely! And, I would like to request that the gentlemen consider that many of those women who respond negatively to their chivalry have been deeply wounded by other men. Therefore, I would suggest that part of being a gentleman is the courage to “overcome evil with good” and continue to persuade these women in the love of Christ that there are kind men in this world, no matter their response.
October 4th, 2006 at 1:18 pm
I make it a point to not open doors for women who might be secular. If I know she is a believer, or dressed like a lady I will open the door. I’m trying to send a message that feminism has been a royal mess in our nation and I will not tolerate it.
I hear lots of women complaining about the lack of chivalry, and I say, ”good.” Perhaps it will open their eyes to the fact they cannot have the best of both worlds. The perks of being a man, and the perks of being the weaker vessel.
October 5th, 2006 at 12:49 pm
WOW. This is the best article on this subject I have ever had the honor of reading. I have linked to it from my own blog (in the Living a Fairy Tale Life section). We really ARE meant to have a fairy tale life, the fairy tale Christ wants for us but the enemy tries to block. Thank you SO MUCH for writing this! Its means so very much to us ‘heroines’ when you ‘heroes’ speak and do these deeply healing things. : )
October 8th, 2006 at 10:36 pm
Patriarch makes an interesting point because he is a Christian and the point is so anti-Christian. Perhaps he could follow the example of Jesus and open the door for all ladies instead of only for the ones he deems acceptable. That would really send a message. To secular women who think the men are pricks…he is merely proving them right.
October 10th, 2006 at 9:39 am
As someone who went to an English boarding school I was brought up to accept gentlemany behaviour as the natural way to conduct myself and to act accordingly, and without question.
Feminism has not only destroyed that once unconcsious by-product of my upbringing, I no longer look upon women with any respect at all. It is impossible to consider the needs and prioritize the comforts and wishes of people who have evolved, over recent decades, into a thoroughly narcissistic and hateful human grouping who are constantly sneering in my face, as a man, and using the human grouping to which I belong as the target for its infantile and baseless venom.
My education is not forgotten. My inner desire to interact properly with real feminine women, i.e. ‘ladies’, remains strong. And when occasionally I do do meet such women, who not only behave like civilized people but actually strongly and openly denounce the fantasies and the malice of the modern women’s movement , my behaviour towards them could be described as that of a ‘Spanish grandee’.
Meanwhile as far as contemporary womankind, per se, is concerned - I am neither a willing punch bag, nor a fool.
October 11th, 2006 at 5:08 am
If a Christian man must treat all the women as ladies, even those who laugh into his face and insult him, does it mean that a Christian woman must treat all men like gentlemen, even those who are alcoholics and wife abusers? Women are quick to point out men’s faults nowadays. Doctors don’t like their own medicines…
October 11th, 2006 at 1:08 pm
I do not know what Din is really trying to say.
But, if I have understood him/her correctly - the vast majority of men are not alcoholics or wife abusers. And good ‘Doctors’, working for an honest medical profession, would not issue public health warnings of an epidemic that does not exist and distribute drugs (in this case feminist ideological poison), causing unhappiness, mistrust, social division, family breakdown and fundamental widespread unhappiness, to further a cause of paranoid and pathalogical hatred.
Feminism is a fully fledged crime against humanity, and it will be widely recognised as such by future generations of human beings.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:20 pm
What I was trying to say is really this: respect is not something a woman is automatically entitled to just because she is a woman. Respect must be earned. Women who claim that all women should be treated like ladies seldom insist that all men should be treated like gentlemen, even abusive jerks. For 40+ years men have been blamed for all the evils in society and now it starts showing in their attitudes to women. That is what I meant by “‘doctors don’t like their own medicines”.
October 11th, 2006 at 1:27 pm
From one of the previous messages:
“I would like to request that the gentlemen consider that many of those women who respond negatively to their chivalry have been deeply wounded by other men” - that is the attitude which I was trying to criticise. So when women respond negatively to chivalry, often by verbal abuse, it’s again some man’s fault! They are just victims of evil men! By the same logic, a man abuses his wife because he was once deeply hurt by a woman so that we must really understand him and treat with all respect.
October 13th, 2006 at 5:16 am
Very well written. I hope to instill these principles into my own four budding gentlemen. Thanks for a great website!!!
October 13th, 2006 at 8:07 am
If a man opens a door for me I thank him. If I open a door for him he thanks me. I have helped men with heavy packages as they have helped me. It is called being a helpful human. But then I do not expect anything from anybody because I am bound to be disapointed.
And I don’t need protection from a man. So far as I know there have been no marauding hordes of Vikings or Huns or Mongols in my small Texas town. If there were I would get a gun. Men want to perpetuate this idea that women need protection. That when the boogey man comes to call their man will bravely beat off the intruder while his little woman cringes in the corner. Guess what? If someone enters my home uninvited you can bet that both my husband and I will let him (or her) know that this was a very bad idea.
I have driven an 18-wheeler across the country without the aid of a man. That what it means to feel empowered and competent and that is what feminism is all about. Those who complain are men who feel that they have been emasculated and women who, judging from this post, want things done for them. Get over it! If your religion suggests otherwise than you need to get over that as well. Religion is evil anyway.
October 13th, 2006 at 12:08 pm
Okay, to address Din and Liz,
Din, to address your first post. We as Christians need to do what Christ calls us to do, if that is to treat ALL women or men like gentleman or ladies, then we must do it all the time. No, well if they don’t treat me like I am supposed to be treated then I am not going to treat them the way they want to be treated. The way we treat people is a witness to our Christianity. To your second post, I think everyone deserves respect until proven different. Most people will probably not be worth the respect, but we must treat people like Christ commands us to.
Liz, protection of a man doesn’t necessarily mean from bad people. Do you not agree that men in general are stronger than most females? Do you not agree that there are just certain things that a man can do better than a woman? God designed it to be this way. I am glad as a female that I have my husband to protect me. It is a great feeling. I think you just kind of missing the whole point. It works, but ultimately we are all sinners, even after repentace, and will have to work our way through anything with Christ’s help. As far as religion being evil, it depends on what religion you are talking about.
Well, all of this sounded a lot better in my head, but I hope that my points came across.
October 14th, 2006 at 9:16 am
“Religion is evil” declares Liz.
Such a statement is the ‘cracked record’ liturgy of your own’quasi-’religious’ brainwashing - that of left-wing secular relativism. Against the background of the sad portrait you paint - the brittle fantasy of angrogynous equalitarianism, along with the statement, “that is what feminism is all about” - it is clear that real religion, namely Christianity, which is not defined by the contemporary whims of misguided human politics, but has an eternal message that has stood the test of time and will outlive your own woeful delusions, does not need your endorsement.
October 14th, 2006 at 9:49 am
Liz, to have a man offering help does not mean that the woman is silly or incapable. We must understand that men and women are different. We are designed differently, with different physique, way of thinking, character, bodily functions, roles, responsibilities and much more. You may been confident in performing certain activities but is it right for you to do it? Taking over a man’s role doesn’t make you a better person. It makes you more of a man, if anything else. Women these days are clamouring to be men and I cannot understand why. For a woman to be offered help does not mean that we can’t perform a certain deed. But rather that the man is willing to take the extra step to help. If you asked me, I’d say, “Why not?” Women and men have advantages and strengths but in different areas and if we try to cross that boundary, we will only end up in a muddled mess. Men being like women and women like men.
Your claims that religion subjects people to this is not a valid argument at all. But rather, you are being intolerant and subjecting others to your “religion is evil” opinion, which is entirely baseless. Religion, if it’s merely a set of rules to follow and some routines which people just go through blindly, would then be wrong. But Christianity is not a religion. It’s a way of life that is true and has proven and will continue to prove itself true as our God is a living God. Pick up a Bible and check these things out and read for yourself to see how “evil” it is. If you feel that your belief is true, what have you got to lose? But if your belief is false, you would lose eternity.
October 15th, 2006 at 7:09 am
Kelly
Do you not agree that men in general are stronger than most females?
Yes, I do. And your point is?
Liz, protection of a man doesn’t necessarily mean from bad people.
Then who? The IRS? Republicans? Democrats? Pat Robertson?
Do you not agree that there are just certain things that a man can do better than a woman?
Name something that you believe a man is better at than a woman? Besides parallel parking.
I am glad as a female that I have my husband to protect me. It is a great feeling.
Again, what is your husband protecting you from? And if he were gone tomorrow you would be completely defenseless?
Just what point am I missing. You choose to be helpless female that has been brainwashed by an ancient religion with no basis in reality. You believe that your religion limits your role as a woman and that you need protection. Have I just about covered all the points?
Peter
Write in English. You sound like a first-year philosophy student playing with new words. We are not impressed.
LIna
You may been confident in performing certain activities but is it right for you to do it? Taking over a man’s role doesn’t make you a better person. It makes you more of a man, if anything else.
It does make more confident when I acquire new skills. Driving a truck made me a better driver and I overcame fear of doing something that was completely out of my comfort zone. My husband was very proud of me. And I do think it made me a better person. Now as for it being a “man’s role” I am not sure what you mean. A hundred years ago being a physician was a “man’s role.” As for my being more of a man - huh?! I was never a man to begin with. I dress in feminine clothes, wear make-up, do my hair and wear jewelry. And no I am not a cross-dresser. I’ve had three children with my husband of 27 years.
Women and men have advantages and strengths but in different areas and if we try to cross that boundary, we will only end up in a muddled mess.
Tell me Lina, who establishes those boundaries? You, the government, Christians, Jews, the Taliban? Just what boundary are you talking about? Would you tell your daughter that she could not be an astronaut or a police captain? Would you tell your son that he could not be a nurse or a stay-at-home dad?
You may think that religion is wonderful but all I see is intolerance and hate. It has a bloody history that continues until this day.
And yes Christianity is a religion. No getting around that one.
I have picked up a bible, and a koran, and the torah. They are all boring and silly. God would have never written such drivel.
I have nothing to lose. I am sitting here on Sunday morning, reading the newspaper, having my coffee, thinking about a donut. Maybe going for a spin on my scooter and later I’ll be going to Lake Travis and go scuba diving. And you’re sitting in a church, listening to a boring preacher telling you how to be saved. As if he knew.
Come on people - wake up and smell the guacamole! The only reason why you are wasting your time is because you are afraid of dying. You are afraid that there is nothing after the lights go out. The last great mystery terrifies you so much that you rely on a fantasy that promises you will never cease to exist. Oh yeah, but you have to follow these rules and blah, blah, blah.
Does God exist? It is completely unproveable. I believe that there is maker. My husband does not. So what! Is it the god of the bible or the koran. No way. That being is a fictional character conjured up in the minds of people who lacked explanations of how their world worked.
October 15th, 2006 at 6:50 pm
Liz,
After reading your last post, I feel that I am reading thoughts from one with a very negative and hopeless outlook on life. Please consider these thoughts; I believe they are great truths.
One, that you are a human being made in the likeness of your creator with an eternal soul. Two, that you, and each one of us as well, have sins - wrong things we have done - which we cannot ourselves wipe away.
Three, none of us can, by ourselves, fight the temptations that come to us, and
Four, none of us can make ourselves live forever.
The good news of this Christianity is that you can have all of these things! You said you have ‘nothing to lose’ — but consider the eternal part of you, your soul. You’re not just some piece of matter. How great to know you can have all of these things promised from someone who loves you because he made you. This Chrisitianity, which teaches that each gives up his interests for the interest of the other, is what prompts the thoughts given in this young man’s article. Who wouldn’t want that kind of world, where everyone looks out for the others’ interests? I’m here to suggest to you it makes life sweeter and finer. I don’t know how I could live life without the hope Jesus holds out in his Word.
Consider it!
October 16th, 2006 at 4:42 am
That was a great speech Brett! I have read it long ago though I only had the chance to
reply now.
Often times we need reminders like this. I myself feel awkward at times in accepting service from men.
Thank you for this kind of service you have rendered to us by posting your speech. We appreciate it very much.
October 16th, 2006 at 4:53 am
Liz
I strongly disagree that Christianity is a religion. That was one thing I battled with my professor in philosophy. Being a Christian is not entering a religion, it is entering a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. Did Jesus Christ create a religion? No. Not anywhere in the Bible would you read that Jesus declared a religion.
I think you read the Bible with the wrong motive that’s why you think it is boring (I would recommend that you read the Boring? Read This! post here in Rebelution)
Men and women were created by God as complementary beings to fulfill the role He prepared for them. He did not create weaklings.
October 17th, 2006 at 9:48 am
“Peter
Write in English. You sound like a first-year philosophy student playing with new words. We are not impressed”.
Liz - I am English. I am also a forty-five year old post-graduate trained teacher who has lived and worked (in the merchant navy) around the world, the USA and Canada included.
I will not address every ‘text book’ feminist squeal you have knocked back at people during this exchange. You are clearly confused between the perspective and needs of the individual and the greater picture of society as a whole - and what is best for that collective.
There are many things that some individual women are able to do as well, sometimes better, than some individual men. But feminism expects the world to project such a truth, that is relevant largely on the margins of human life, and force it onto society as the reality of the aggregate whole. That is the great destructive and harmful lie of the modern women’s movement.
A very simple analogy would be the truth that, if you were to take a random sample of a million human beings - 50% male, 50% female - there will inevitably by a proportion of women who are taller than a proportion of the men. But the majority of males will be taller than the majority of females. If you were to organise a society, in which a key ingredient determining that societies progress and survival depended upon human stature (this is a simple analogy remember) - which formula is likely to be more successful? That which insists that men and women must be equally represented within all spheres of human activity, or that which acknowledges and accepts the innate human differences between men and women and subsequently organises its social structures in a manner which best utlizes the input of stature that is available to it within the human pool.
This is, of course, a simplistic analogy. The success of no human society would ever be determined by physical height - unless its existence was suddenly subject to the outcome of some strange apocalyptic basketball league.
But there are a multitude of relevant parallels, both physical and intellectual, that reach out into reality and into the world in which we actually live in. I have neither the time nor the space here to go into great detail. So I will just give you one ot two examples and, if you are truly capable of intelligent, objective, moral thought, leave you to decide for yourself.
Not only are men, on avarage, physically stronger than women - but the spectrum of male intellect is broader than female. The most creative, inventive and powerful human minds are male. They always have been and always will be. A contemporary feminist consequence of ignoring this truth has been the devastation of standards throughout all levels of education and in most Western societies, including my own (Great Britain) and North America, as teaching methods have been altered to artificially inflate the performance of females within schools and universities. There have been many consequences, including rapidly falling rates of literacy and numeracy amongst the population as a whole. There has also been a terrible knock-on effect within many specialist fields.
In my own country, the UK, as the proportion of female medical students has gradually increased over the past twenty years, there has been almost an exact proportional decline in the numbers of elite students who are capable of reaching the very top of the profession. In the UK we are now suffering from a shortage of skilled consultant surgeons and have recently resorted to flying them in from mainland Europe to do vital work, and then flying them home again. People know why this is so - but it has become a career destroying, even legal heresy to confront the truth.
In your own country, as affirmative action and blind, chidlike feminist prejudice has been applied to increase the numbers of female math and science students in American universities - the outcome has seen academics expressing a concern that, amongst the once elite minds within an intellectual grouping capable of contuing within their respective fields and doing vital post-graduate studies and research, the numbers of Americans are declining and such work is increasingly being carried out, in American universities, by foreigners. Again, it is a heresy to confront the truth. One American academic, Larry Summers, half-heartedly and nervously attempted to do this- and nearly lost his job.
I have just provided you with a couple of examples of why feminism and the concept of androgynous humanity is an absolute fallacy. There are countless other examples - and that analysis is only from a very narrow practical perspective. When the greater picture is examined which involves such realities as human reproduction and the necessary intergenerational replacement levels, the hugely important foundation stones of marriage and traditional family life that all durable human civilizations are completely dependant upon for their very survival, I am certain that future generations of human beings will eventually and collectively be looking back with horror at this age and at the fantasies of the fanatical few that, for a period, were allowed to subjugate the majority.
Your fellow American - Professor Howard S. Schwartz of Oakland University in Rochester Michigan - once said “I have no doubt that, someday, the distortions of the truth by the radical feminists of our time will be seen to have been the greatest intellectual crime of the second half of the twentieth century. At the present time, however, we still live under the aegis of that crime, and calling attention to it is an act of great moral courage”.
I personally believe Professor Schwartz uses very mild language when describing what is happening in our world at present. When the whole human landscape is examined - its physical, emotional and spiritual needs for both the here and now and our future, I am sure that future generations of human beings will, as I have said before, collectively judge feminism as having been a fully fledged crime against humanity. As cruel, as inhuman and, in the last analysis, as futile, as any that history has witnessed. The human race cannot redefine itself Liz. And humanity has never been able to live a lie indefinately. Periodically, alas, it seem pre-disposed to try.
Perhaps that is why Albert Einstein once said, during the devastation of the first half of the twentieth century, “only two things are infinate, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the first”.
And he added his uncertainty about the infinate nature of the universe after his work which culminated in his ‘General Theory of Relativity’ resulted in the destruction of his once steadfast atheism - and his final acceptance that there is actually an all-powerful being behind the creation of the universe and of mankind.
And that being is God.
October 19th, 2006 at 1:08 pm
It doesn’t take much digging to discover the bigotry at the root of your worldview, Mister Charnley. I fully support the purpose of the original article, that is to encourage the attitude of service and chivalry in young men. That goal is not at cross-purposes with the advancement of women into the fields of science and medicine. Given that over the last several hundred years, advanced educational opportunities were generally closed to women, it is no surprise that the list of ‘great male thinkers’ you can name is longer than the list of women. Neither of us will be around in 150 years to argue how opening these ‘doors’ to women’s education, intellectual growth, and advancement will have helped society as a whole, but you’ll have to agree with me on one thing - your doomsaying on the subject isn’t going to make a bit of difference in the end.
My husband is a gentleman of the door-opening variety, but neither one of us encourages weakness in the other. We lift the heavy things together. If he’s got his hands full, I get the door. We encourage our daughter as well as our son in that regard, and want them to accept graciously help given by others, whether male or female. We also acknowledge that there are differences between men and women - no argument there - but these differences amount to a wonderful complementarity and variety of valuable perspective, not some sort of set of limitations that we have to tote around the rest of our lives. This is fully in keeping with the original article.
Liz, your husband sounds like a very nice man, and your mutual respect is evident in your posts. It is true, religion is at once responsible for the best and worst examples of human conduct. It’s because of all the people involved
We agree on that point, Mr. Charnley - only God shines as a beacon when the folly of men and women leaves our hearts in the dust.
October 19th, 2006 at 2:18 pm
I am not motivated by bigotry Angela, but by truth and reason. I am actually fighting bigotry - self destructive feminist bigotry.
On the question you attempt to leave up in the air about the future outcome of the attempted advancement of women within the sciences - I have already answered that by providing empirical evidence as to what has already been its consequences within just two academic and professional fields. There are many others.
And perhaps, with regard to other things you claim, such as past opportunity, you might like to put them into context with the words of the reformed radical feminist, Camille Paglia, who once stated that “if the progress of the human race had been in the hands of women, we would still be living in grass huts”.
She was issued with death threats from feminist activists for that statement - and had to subsequently have her mail monitored for explosive devices.
Feminism is a form of ideological radicalism that is completely divorced from reality. Its extremism demands that the world attempts to live out its fantasies regardless of consequence - but it really cares nothing for the human beings living in that world. Even if the people at the heart of contemporary feminism knew for certain that widespread catastrophe would result - their fanaticism would override that reality. To such people, the importance of their cause and the very attempt to give it existence surpasses everything - even life itself.
That, too, was the prime motivator behind the political excesses of Soviet Communism and German Nazism. And in terms of extremism, radicalism and the very distance it unwittingly places between itself and the truth - feminism eclipses both.
Whether you are prepared to believe it or not - it is not me that is the bigot Angela.
October 19th, 2006 at 11:23 pm
Kelly wrote:Din, to address your first post. We as Christians need to do what Christ calls us to do, if that is to treat ALL women or men like gentleman or ladies, then we must do it all the time. No, well if they don’t treat me like I am supposed to be treated then I am not going to treat them the way they want to be treated. The way we treat people is a witness to our Christianity. To your second post, I think everyone deserves respect until proven different. Most people will probably not be worth the respect, but we must treat people like Christ commands us to.
Kelly, the Bible doesn’t tell us to “respect” everyone around us, much less to treat all men like gentlemen and all women like ladies. I’m not going to treat a wife beater and a woman who is a harlot and keeps aborting her children with the same respect as God-fearing citizens around me. Bible speaks of Christian love, better yet is to use the old word “charity”. Should we be charitable to such people? Yes, but we should also point out their sins to them and urge them to repent. And if a man chooses not to treat an obnoxious feminist as a lady, he is actually doing her a service becaise he shows in a mild way that such behaviour is wrong and unacceptable . That is a Christian thing to do. Loving somebody in a Christian way doesn’t mean accepting his bad or sinful behaviour. Would you accept the behaviour of a child molester and argue that we should treat him or her with respect?
BTW, Not being chivalrous doesn’t mean being plain rude in my eyes. Men normally don’t open doors for one another and nobody sees it as rudeness. To be treated like a lady by a man is a privilege, not a right. It probably used to be a right, but then most women used to be ladylike. And treating a die-hard men-hating feminist with chivalry will only insult her. And why would a polite man want to insult anyone?:)
October 20th, 2006 at 7:20 am
Peter, your “evidence’ is anecdotal at best. I wouldn’t call it empirical. A British shortage of high-level surgeons could arise from numerous causes, and it is faulty logic to conclude that female enrollment is to blame. No feminist conspiracy is preventing the great male minds of Britain from becoming physicians - perhaps it is the incredibly screwed up healthcare system, the rise in litigation and malpractice claims, and the spiraling costs of healthcare in developed nations that are leading some of the best and brightest (both male and female), to conclude that a career in medicine is no longer the peach it was once considered to be.
Repeating Paglia’s ‘grass huts’ quote only weakens your position, since it is both entirely unprovable and pointlessly inflammatory. Radical personalities (like Paglia) have a tendency to vacillate wildly - if they didn’t, there wouldn’t be so many former Hell’s Angels in the ranks of evangelical Christianity. In the future, you’ve got to come up with a quote that has some credibility behind it, lest you cast yourself in a poor light. And honestly…you seriously believe that the idea of women having more options in life is more extreme and more radical than German Nazism or Soviet Communism??? Seriously?
True gentlemen (and ladies) will always be welcome, and feminism will never erase the distinction between men and women - biology, God, and the vast majority of both genders want that distinction to remain! There will always be people on the fringes of every issue, and radical feminists are just one of those fringes (with you representing the opposite fringe). Better to connect one-on-one with the concerns of people in these fringe groups, and to address them respectfully, than to demonize them.
October 20th, 2006 at 12:46 pm
“Peter, your “evidence’ is anecdotal at best”.
Evidence that demonstrates the course of shifting male/female medical student ratios running at an almost exact parallel to the growing shortage of consultant surgeons - and becoming particularly accute when the additional factor of professional qualification and period of attainment is also added to the equation - and in precise relation to the very time when the shoe-horning of women into the medical profession began in earnest - and largely at the expense of (not additional to) potential male students - is not anecdotal Angela. The same facts (ratios/time scales/outcome) applies to the influx of women (at the expense of men) into the science faculties within American universities
“No feminist conspiracy is preventing the great male minds of Britain from becoming physicians”.
With methods of education deliberately designed to stimulate and favor girls - again at the expense of boys, not in an attempt to bring them up alongside male students, who (post 15/16 - at which age aggregate male maturity catches up with that of female) were ahead in every sphere of education before feminism began to distort the landscape of our schools and universities, is indeed preventing many powerful male intellects from achieving their full potential, not just within the medical profession but right across the academic, technological and professional board. Many boys are being deliberately discouraged from taking an interest in their own long term educational needs by literally criminally minded, Marxist inspired, feminist academics. And this is applicable at every level of education - from pre-school to university.
Inevitably this will have serious consequences for the economies and eventually the quality of life within Western civilizations as they will gradually lose ground and their competitive edge (and their very heart, self-belief and will) to the rising Asian economic giants which cast an ever greater shadow over the world economy.
“Radical personalities (like Paglia) have a tendency to vacillate wildly”
Angela - I get the impression that you are not a ‘radical feminist’. But you are undoubtedly speaking here as an ‘apologist’, or as a defendant (consciously or unconsciously) for some of the things that people who see the modern women’s movement for what it truly is know to be critically wrong.
Your above statement about Camille Paglia typifies the extraordinary hypocrisy and crass double standards that is the very hallmark of modern feminism. The modern women’s movement is now nothing less than a vehicle of raw hatred that is totally dependant upon the derv. of lies, distorted reality and wildly emotional and ridiculous accusations and claims that attempts to propogate an image of the ‘toxic male/ pure female’.
As far as Paglia’s remark, itself, is concerned the evidence for its validity can, indeed, only ever be, in this instance, anecdotal. But to those of us not brainwashed by the illusion of feminism’s androgynous fantasies - and objectively look around us at the physical world in which we live and put it into true context with the past - at the technologies of communication, calculation, travel, energy, medicine - and in turn, perhaps, put that into context with such things as a recent paper that was submitted to the British Jounal of Psychiatry following the testing of approximately 10,000 university undergraduates which demonstrated that once IQ levels had moved upwards from the average of 100 to 105 males outnumbered females by 3:1. At 115 the gap was 5:1 - and by the time scores reached 147 the ratio had widened to over 10:1. And perhaps, alongside both the perspective of our living world and the facts about human intelligence (which is empirical evidence), we also factor into the equation the very nature of the human male, compared to that of the female, his greater innate predisposition for risk taking (physically, intellectually and financially) - would anyone seriously believe that so much as a miniscule fraction of the technology we take for granted today would exist if the onus for its conception and realisation had been in the hands of womankind. Ask yourself that Angela. And far as such a question is concerned you can only ever answer truthfully to yourself.
“you seriously believe that the idea of women having more options in life is more extreme and more radical than German Nazism or Soviet Communism??? Seriously”?
Feminism is not about women having more options in life Angela. Feminism is denying millions and millions of women throughout the Western world the very right to be women. To fulfill their roles as female human beings.
Not only is feminism deliberately and callously causing mistrust and division between men and women, it is demanding that those very things that distinguish the sexes, that are unique to each gender, are to be looked upon with abhorrence - particularly that which is masculine.
I could go on and on about such facts as falling birthrates amongst the Western world’s indigenous populations. About the massacre of hundreds of millions of human beings whose only crime was that they had yet to take their first breath. The rocketing rates of divorce, broken homes and the consequential devastating effect upon the long term mental and spiritual well being of our young. I will spare you such figures which you are perhaps already aware of and are free to interpret as you will - as far as the responsibility, options, well being and ‘feedom’ of women is concerned.
But using that word, ‘options’, that appears to be so important to you - I will quote the radical feminist British Parliamentary Minister, Patricia Hewitt, who was, until a few years ago, the Minister for Trade and Industry here in the UK.
When questioned about the decision to remove the ‘Married Couples Tax Allowance’, which granted certain tax breaks to families, particularly to those reliant on a single income, she openly declared that women, even those with small children, should not be allowed to stay at home. She brazenly asserted that “if given that ‘option’, too many women would choose to take it”.
Feminism’s definition of ‘choice’, Angela, does not fit in with that of real humanity and the real instinctive wishes of many women.
Feminism is an enemy of the human race. And in terms of its radicalism, its fanaticism, the raw hatred that is its heartbeat and the very distance it chooses to place between itself and truth - feminism does indeed eclipse the extremes of both Communism and Nazism. We have yet to fully reap the seeds that are now being sown, that is why many people might still doubt such a statement. Throughout history mistakes have frequently only ever been fully acknowledged by the majority after a very painful lesson has been learned by the whole of society the hard way. Unfortunately that is all too often the human way.
But I maintain that not only will feminism be one day recognised as having been the most heinous crime against humanity ever visited upon our species - but I believe that it is possibly the worst such crime the human race can possibly ever know. And I mean that quite seriously.
October 20th, 2006 at 3:19 pm
Perhaps my last input into this discussion should be provided by a representative of the Church of Rome - speaking just two days ago.
Archbishop warns “culture of extreme feminism” denigrates meaning of motherhood
Buenos Aires, Oct. 19, 2006 (CNA) - Commenting on the celebration of Mother’s Day in Argentina, Archbishop Hector Aguer of La Plata said this week “the culture of extreme feminism, which is a culture of death and destruction of the family and of the natural order” strips motherhood of its true meaning.
Archbishop Aguer warned that “ultra-feminist ideologies” distort cultural traditions by treating motherhood as a burden and a problem, ignoring mothers who confront burdens and problems with joy.
He noted that feminism treats motherhood almost like a “curse in which the woman must free herself from the slavery of being a mother in order to live in authentic freedom, in accord with the impulses of her whims.”
The true meaning of motherhood, he countered, is to discover its meaning for the woman, who initiates a special relationship with her baby long before birth, “long before seeing his face or holding him in her arms.” For this reason, he went on, “the role of mothers is essential for the formation of the human person.”
Mother’s Day is celebrated in Argentina on October 11, which, in centuries past was the date of the Feast of Mary, Mother of God. That feast day is now celebrated on January 1.
November 3rd, 2006 at 6:42 am
I am a woman, mother, and grandmother (albeit a young grandmother-LOL). I study gentle, godly, feminine living. I am so thankful to see this site. I am living the Titus 2 and Proverbs 31 woman’s description. I encourage my daughters to live this way as well. I want to encourage you and your readers to keep up the good works! We CAN change society one person at a time.
November 8th, 2006 at 7:45 am
Wow!!!!! That is really great Brett! I really appreciate y’all’s website it is such an encouragement to me and my older sister. Your article is right that we girls need to accept the guys help when it is offered. In fact my 4 1/2 year old brother loves to “open the doors for the ladies”. And gets very distrought (sp?) when not allowed to!!
Thanks again,
November 21st, 2006 at 1:10 pm
Well young man, this is a notable and noble essay. Very well written, clearly well thought out. I am quite impressed. I also learned a few things I intend to pass on to my son’s and daughter’s. I suppose I already knew it, but you put it into neat concise wording, and that makes my life easier.
Praise God that there are still people out there who want to die to self, and become the least of these.
Mrs. Meg Logan
December 7th, 2006 at 10:16 am
Wow! that’s exactly what I’ve been looking for before pursuing a relationship with a guy. I’m so glad to know that I am not the only person who feels that way. Keep going brothers! We’re rooting for you all the way!
~natalie
December 18th, 2006 at 2:23 pm
Thanks for your section addressing the ladies; I think guys get picked on a lot in the whole guy-girl-relationship thing for not doing their part and all, when really the blame is more spread out. I would love to pick your brain on the ‘Unique and Critical Roles’ section… Do you think it’s wrong for girls to be more excited about pursuing a career than starting a family?
~Annie
December 19th, 2006 at 5:28 pm
I totally agree. I’m afraid that, as a girl, I’ve fallen prey to the “weakness” trap, and this series opened my eyes to it. I will try harder now to fulfill my end of this. Thank you for taking the time to write!
December 19th, 2006 at 7:42 pm
I was reading this post & thinking, yeah, chivalry is great, but you always expect it from older guys, like, 60 or something, so its kinda a shock when someone our age, like in their teens, does something gentleman like. Ive often thought how dorky the whole “stand when a woman comes into the room, open the door for her every time” thing was, but when I think about it, I would like my husband, when I get married, to have the qualities of a chivalrus man. Even though at our age it seems odd & funny, Ive found that some guys balance the chivalry-&-yet-not-a-dork thing quite well, & everyone loves them, especially the girls.
Now I am quite into a do it yourself, tough it out & kind of attitude, so when a guy opens a door for me I feel kind of, well, like they think I can’t do it myself? its odd.
But i do agree that guys do need to work on being more chivalrus & us, as girls, need to encorage that.
Great post!
December 20th, 2006 at 5:52 pm
Ya know, Brett’s post can be summed up with one verse (as it applies to husbands and wives). “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her … (Ephesians 5:25). And just as Brett pointed out, the way you treat your mother, your sisters, and your female friends will shape the way you will one day treat your wife. Consider also this: “Do not rebuke an older man harshly, but exhort him as if he were your father. Treat younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, and younger women as sisters, WITH ABSOLUTE PURITY” (1 Timothy 5:2, emphasis mine).
December 21st, 2006 at 7:27 am
I will have to say, the Lord certainly does enable one to have the years & experience to experience both sides of the coin, so-to-speak. Almost 18 years ago, I had a son “out of wedlock”. At that time, I had received my diplomas from two “all women’s” schools–the underlying philosophy of both of those schools was “whatever men can do, women can do better”. Needless to say, I was determined to bring up my son knowing that, yet also encouraged him to behave like a gentleman (opening doors, please & thank you, helping women out with packages, school books, etc). What a paradox! Once I was saved, I realized the necessity for ME (as in “I”, “ego”, “id”) to be squelched & for him, my growing son, to step up to being the chivalrous young man God had created him to be. Old habits die hard–I am now struggling with a soon-to-be man who is gifted with the grace of God to be a leader, yet, he is not the chivalrous gentleman that he would like to believe himself to be. He, too, much like his parents, struggles significantly with “self”.
He believes he is a gentleman as he conducts himself quite well when in the company of others (other than his family); but get him purely in the company of his closest neighbors (his siblings, & parents), and the “old man” comes out.
I will have to say, much of his behaviour has been “taught” to him by a self-sufficient mother (no wonder God instructs us to be pure until marriage–being a single parent certainly directs us to self-dependance instead of be God-dependant). But there comes a time when we need to make our own decisions about how we’re going to treat one another, and what we’re going to stand for–much like these two young gentlemen have done. I’m sure their parents have influenced much of their thinking and acting, but I’m also certain that their parents didn’t require they step out & make the proclaimation they’ve made.
Why is chivalry so hard to find today? It is because we continue to allow the “Ruler of this world” to deceive us into believing we are “someone” when we have yet to etch the surface of what God truly wants us to be.
January 9th, 2007 at 1:24 am
hello, it’s good idea…
…
January 16th, 2007 at 9:57 am
I would like to point out that in the hot debate about who is ’smarter’ men or women, that there are different kinds of ’smart.’ It is my observation that as a whole, the young men I know have more tendency to science oriented fields. I believe I can say that they undersand these things more easily than most girls. On the other hand, girls sometimes have more common sense and caution.
January 18th, 2007 at 9:14 am
Interesting article, but I wonder why the examples of chivalry are limited to opening doors and carrying packages? If a man has a heart that is truly thinking of others, he should also be willing to help out just as cheerfully with doing laundry, making dinner, taking care of the kids, running errands, and whatever else a woman might need help with. Focusing solely on doors and packages seems to be a bit legalistic and tends to miss the real heart attitude behind the actions.
My encouragement to men who want to be chivalrous is to help women with the things that they REALLY need help with and that are REAL burdens to them. Develop a heart that genuinely cares for others. This is much more challenging than mindlessly opening doors and offering help with packages, but it will also make a much larger impact on the lives of the women you love. As a woman myself, I feel much more cared for and loved when my husband offers to do a few loads of laundry when I need the help than if he merely opens the door for me (although I still do appreciate it!)
Opening doors and carrying things is a good way to start, but don’t let it end there!
January 18th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
The discussion about who is better seems to be turning into a discussion about who is more valuable.
If God is our ultimate standard, Peter Charnley, his standard of value for humans should be our standard. In his eyes, a prodigal daughter returned is as valuable as a prodigal son returned. They are valuable to God while they are dead in trespasses and sins, or feminism and misogyny, AND when they accept redemption. Our value is not determined how we benefit economy or God’s kingdom, but how much God loves us. Sure God has a law book according to which you might better than I, yet if this were the only standard, you and I would be as hell-bound as an God-hating feminist. We can accept this judgement as just, wallow in misery, wait our doom, curse others with the curse we bear, and leave in a nihilistic poof of vanity. Or we can accept our failure before God “to reacscend, / Self-rais’d, and repossess [our] native seat,” (e.i. get to heaven despite or because of rebellion to God) and then turn to God and accept that we have value, though Christ’s propitiatory love to be justified and counted perfect. My score should be nil, but it is perfect, because the head master’s son did the work with the head master’s bleasing.
I trust that in bringing up these truths before Peter Charnley on a Christian blog I am preaching to the choir. Our status in God’s eyes as lovely enough to die for does have relevence to chivalry. If God died for sinners, how can we take that and refuse to die for sinners as well? Chivalry is a set of guidlines on how guys can respectfully love the fairer sex. (Fairer sex, by the way, is a very accurate term; in a gender vs. gender competition, girls are prettier than guys any day.) Chivalry is a practice we can revive to say, in a small way, “Christ died for me, the jerk, and so I can do this for you even if you are a jerk too. (Din does actually know God loves jerks.) God loves you. Let me copy his kindness in this small way.”
Chivalry is built on custom and gains beauty from it like writing does from historical allusions. Now, just because something was tradition does not mean it was right. The Dani tribe in Indonesia had some interesting traditions:
The women were the bread winners.
The women proposed in marriage.
The men valued their pigs more than their wives. They were more important to society despite doing nothing.
The men just worried about their enemies and their hair.
Young people had parties to meet the opposite sex that often ended with just that.
These Dani people went through a healthy, mass conversion to Christianity. They met Christ through a Westen missionary, but he was careful to keep them from accepting Westen varieties of worldliness. After their conversion, the Dani had to decide which of their traditions were sinful and destructive, and which could be kept and improved. They kept the first two traditions and nixed the other three. Women continued to grow the food and propose, men started loving their wives and building infastructure and ministry, and kids waited until marriage. Their culture flourished as never before. They demonstrated that gender roles matter, but men are not universally built for certain jobs.
Chivalry is based on a man-as-the-breadwinner tradition. This is a system which has been ours and which does not need to be changed. If the Dani had convulsively adopted our system they would have got chaos. If we change to a women-as-breadwinner, we will likewise get chaos. It is painful and unnecessary to go through such a change. (I agree with Peter Charnley in that modern feminism produces worse than chaos because it is sin. It sets women to a higher inate value than men, not just to a different function.) Strong Biblical arguements can be made for our man-as-breadwinner system. Chivalry can be linked to our religion. But I think it is more of a custom for courtesy than a morally right way of doing things. It is a beautiful habit and a good application of our beliefs and I am encouraged that many others think it admirable.
February 2nd, 2007 at 3:22 pm
Dude you freakin ROCK!!! I encourage my guy friends to open the doors and to tone down on the language when they are around women, thanks for giving me more reasons why they have an OBLIGATION from GOD to do so.
Keep up the Awesome work and God Bless you!
In Christ,
Rose:) (freshman)
February 13th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
A New Zealand “Hi!” to everyone!
First of all, thanks Brett for this article. I love it when guys are chivalrous. I’m not a weak girl, and I think there’s nothing wrong with accepting help from guys. It doesnt’ mean that we, as girls, are incapable. I experienced some gentlemanly behavour towards me from an American guy a while ago and I really did appreciate it even though I was kinda embarrased at first. I have to say that American guys tend to be more chivalrous than New Zealand guys. So I challenge all you Kiwi dudes out there, be a gentlemen! Chicks love it!
(not that i’m saying that should be the primary reason for gentlmanly behaviour)
Secondly, a question to Peter Chranley, are you saying that I, as a girl, shouldn’t be allowed to reach my full potential academically? Correct me if I’m wrong on that, but to me it seemed like that’s what you were saying.
Thirdly, to Liz. Everyone needs Christ. It’s a fact, whether one believes it or not. One can choose to accept it and do something about it (receive Christ as your Saviour) or ignore it. It’s your choice.
Thats all I have to say. It’s Valentine’s Day here already and its 12:30 pm. I’ll just have to wait till tomorrow to see the results of the modesty survey.
Oh, one more thing, can anyone give me advice on how I can teach my 14yr old brother to be chivalrous? He thinks I’ve lost my mind! LOL
God Bless you everyone!
Shalita
February 23rd, 2007 at 6:32 pm
You said: “We must refuse to treat this issue just like another lifestyle option! In reality it is a requirement made for us by God – and by God’s grace we can succeed.”
Now, I like chivalry but where does the Bible say that it’s required? I think think you should be careful about saying something is a requirement of God; and if it isn’t who are we to say it is commanded by God?
February 26th, 2007 at 5:48 pm
I appreciate it when guys are gentlemen, too. My younger brother just started a blog, and he put a nifty little piece on it about being a gentleman. He didn’t tell me about it, he just posted it. Please have a read! It’s http://musingsofaliberboy.blogspot.com/2007/02/gentlemen.html.
March 9th, 2007 at 1:16 am
*is shocked*
That is an incredible post. Totally awesome. Thank you very much.
April 11th, 2007 at 3:27 am
Brett -
This is an interesting essay, but it fails to address one major issue. That is, the issue of encouraging selflessness in women. While men are being encouraged to “put the ladies first”, your article does nothing to help fight selfcentredness in women. Having obliging gentlemen servicing all their felt needs does not encourage girls to behave in a less selfish way. This brings me to my second point, the distinction between felt needs, and real needs. Christian love involves the serving of people’s real needs, not their felt needs. While we were sinners, we felt no need of a Saviour, but Christ, who knew our real need, saved us from ourselves. Also, surely all Christians, both men and women, should be more considerate of others needs than of their own. Sorry if this sounds negative, I actually agree that their is a lack of gentlemanly behaviour, but I was wondering if fighting selfishness was the best ground to build your argument on. Anyway, I really like you blog, so keep up the encouraging!
Yours in Christ
Bex
April 11th, 2007 at 4:08 am
Good blog post, but i think i agree with Bex. I don’t think women should be encouraged to just sit on their backsides waiting for boys, when they should be equally serving the guys. But i definitely agree with the lack of chivalry nowadays!
Abi
June 15th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Thank you so much for this post. It is a very good reminder to us girls to accept guys help and kindness. I completely agree with you, Anna C.
June 18th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
I love above article. Gave me something to think about.
I would like to say something to Din & Peter. Nobody on this earth is being treated or getting what they deserve. We are all woeful sinners, we cannot earn salvation, no matter how good we are. It is a gift from God. We obey out of love for Him, and we love others as He loves us. It is something I am struggling with as well. To love those who do terrible things to us. It is a hard thing, but look what Jesus, our example in all things did: He hung on a cross, crucified by the very beings He came to save. He didn’t hang out with the good people. They didn’t need or want him, in fact, they were the ones contriving to have Him killed. Instead, he ate with the publicans & sinners. He did not endorse sin, but he loved the sinner. It is the sinner who needs His love, the sinner needs to be saved, not condescension & derision.
The secular world is a very cruel place, that is how they are treated by good secular people as well, and often the way they treat others because it is what they know. You are right, often the wife beating man is usually the product of a sad upbringing, he was likely the recipient, or the witness of abuse by whoever was his role model. Two wrongs will never make a right, God didn’t fight hate with hate, hurt with hurt, pain with pain. He allows the wicked and the Godly to prosper. He sacrificed that which was dearest to Himself in all the world that we might know Him & live. He has essentially allowed Himself to be put on trial so that the universe might know always and forever His word, and His law is love. Love is the key, with out love even Christianity is an empty religion.
It seems that when God is absent that is when true hatred is unleashed, the absense of love leaves room for hate. The french revolution: they drove out the huguenots, the commandment keeping peoples, with that the voice of reason & forbearance was silenced. The poor oppressed and abused people struck back in a terrible grim mercilless attack on men, women & children.
Nazi Germany is another example, God was expelled, and some of the worst crimes against humanity were perpetrated.
Now God is being removed again, and now it is alright to abort children we don’t want, to euthanize beings that are considered a burden. Indifference to the needs, & then the very lives of others is only the start, next human life has no value. The only thing that gives us value is God. HE created us in His image. You can blame feminism, but it is only another symptom of a much more serious problem. The desire for us to do what we want. We all want control. We don’t want to submit our lives to God.We all tend to resent and then to hate that which we perceive as depriving us of that ‘inalienable’ control over our lives. Hate makes wars, it kills, love saves & sacrifices itself to save.
Man or woman we are all called to sacrifice. To some he gave gifts he did no bestow upon others. He would not have us treat each other as inferior. How dare we judge. I know a woman who had an abortion, she seems to have a good life, but to know her is to know she can’t even sleep at night with out drugs. Don’t think for minute that those sinners you want to shun for sinning are happy people, many of them are a hairs breadth from suicide. Others are simply spinning out of control full of rage & hate. Some are self satisified in this life, but they will lose eternity. It is not for us to rejoice or to say “this is why you are miserable” or this is what you need, sorry sinner” Love & prayer is what we are called to do. Leave their sins in Gods hands, love them.
I am sorry of the long rant, this is something dear to my heart, as is the woman I have just described.
I am a 1st time mother & I can’t imagine how anyone could ever EVER just get rid of a child for any reason, but before you attack those women, remember, they didn’t get in that position alone where is the man?
Sometimes is even so bad that she was not even of her own choice. Did you know that a rapist can get visitation rights in some states? Can you imagine for a minute, even you gentlemen, being violated in such a way, and then being forced to permit that person to have an influence on that precious little child? Him having forever changed & ruined your life.He now has control over it. Another single mother… you never know, Jesus said “he who is without sin cast the first stone”. Love one another as I have loved you. Do you think you can save yourself? do you think that the drunk bum or harlot needs you to tell them they are miserable and wrong? They need to be SHOWN a better way not words, but ACTIONS.
I watched Les Miserables & would highly recommend it. People forced to live a certain way because of what gender they are or what crime they’ve committed.
I hope I do not sound angry or embittered, i am just impassioned about this. I was raised a conservative christian and did everything ‘right’ but something was missing. Later I was in a position where just because of my gender, was disprespected. I clung to seperate but equal. I told myself not all men were as bad as those who were supposed to be leaders to me. After that I quit going to church, I gave up on everyone & everything, but God never gave up on me! Hallelujah Love all of you guys, I hope I haven’t offended you but rather given you something to think about. I love this website. It has inspired me to try harder to be better.
Thanks for taking the time to read all this. God bless.
P.S. not a single mother, but a very blessed housewife
June 29th, 2007 at 8:30 pm
our HOF church is still so small that we meet at home, and after shared meal the boys are supposed to fold the tables, pick them up, and put them away. One evening they were slacking, so us girls started to put the tables away, and I watched as my 12 year old sister carried a heavy table right by my 14 yr old male friend.”Nice going, K” I said to him, just teasing! “Where is the Chivilrous knight helping my sister w/ that table? Get a move on it!” He just stared at me. Later, when I was putting a folding chair away, he comes up, and says, jokingly,”OOOOO, can I CARRY that for you?” I knew that he was mocking me, so I said “no, it’s really all right.” but I think he felt bad, so maybe I should have let him take the chair. What do you think?
August 5th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
Gah, opening doors is a misguided gesture. It doesn’t meet a need, it doesn’t improve comfort. It just blocks traffic =P It might carry sentiment, but it isn’t a service.
August 5th, 2007 at 11:20 pm
Skyfort-
Blocks traffic? Generaly one stands out of the way when doing so… Perhaps meeting a need is not the whole issure, lahtough a great part. Simply showing respect to women is just as important. If you open doors just out of obligation, then you are missing the point.
People who are requesting a post for ladies-
I would recamend the Ladieg Agianst Feminism website for this.
-
www.Ladiesaganstfeminism.com
August 18th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
Great article!!!
I just love it when guys are nice and let you go first (really any act of consideration) or help you out! It’s just nice to know that my brothers in Christ care.
August 27th, 2007 at 7:40 am
[…] A few days ago I read this series on chivalry. Great stuff, and its even better when you realize that it’s written by a teenager. […]
September 25th, 2007 at 7:43 am
Thank you for your article Brett!
Reading this makes me wish that all guys would do this. In this day and age it seems like guys are only gentlemen to you if they like you and are only gentlemen to YOU (not every other girl).
October 26th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
Thanks for the article! I wish there were more guys that showed this kind of love for their sisters in Christ as well as more young ladies that acted like ladies instead of having the “I can do anything guys can do” mentality. To the guys, keep persevering in the role God has given you! To the ladies, just because you could do something, doesn’t mean you should. If a guy offers to help you carry something heavy, let him! This is helping you brother in Christ. Guys, don’t give up on us either! Many of the young ladies I know (and this goes for me sometimes too) are striving to attain Biblical femininity in a world that tells us that this is just being too girly, wimpy, or just plain ridiculous (among other things). A world that says we should be able to do everything you guys can do. God gave men and women different roles for a reason! Embrace the role your Heavenly Father has given you!!! Use it for His honor and glory!
November 3rd, 2007 at 10:50 am
This is great!
I’ve been seeing less and less of this over the last few years, and it’s very encouraging to find that there are still other gentlemen out there.
God Bless!
November 13th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
I think this is a great challange. And for ladies who think that gentlemen no longer exist it is a good reminder for us to act correctly.
November 28th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
63258
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December 2nd, 2007 at 12:00 am
hmmm… I’ve always had high standards for guys. I’ve seen so many of my friends give in to the need of having a relationship only to get hurt because the guy thay picked cared more about themselves. Please do not misinterpret me. I’m not saying the guys were the only ones to blame, more often then not, my friends were. But I always thought that the purpose of a husband was to have someone constantly bringing you closer to God. Someone who was willing to give up little comforts for you. The quote by Dr. Albert Mohler was something I really needed to hear, and I’m going to encourage the guy leaders in our church to teach on this subject.
Brett - Thanks, I don’t think you truly know how much this means to not only me, but to the other people reading this. God has truly blessed you with leadership and it means a lot to see you using yur talents for Him.
December 15th, 2007 at 11:44 am
What we need is Reformation, not another Middle Ages.
January 7th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
For our youth group outing last Saturday night we went to the mall. As we went inside a couple of the guys held open the door. And they did as we wnet and when we came back out. Then to our pleasant surprise they did it again as we went in and out of McDonalds. My friends and I were all sure to say thanks and show that we appreciated it.
January 25th, 2008 at 9:17 am
I’ve always kind of treated my mom differently from other women. I mean, I greatly respect her, but I do treat her in a fashion that could use some improvement. This article really made me think about that. Thanks for writing it.
January 25th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Dear Mr. Charnely,
I agree with your fundamental views on feminism, but I think that you should be gentler when debating with people like Liz. Calling people bigots and comparing them to Nazis and Communists probably won’t sway their views and will make them even angrier.
Additionally, Paul told Timothy: “Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.” Paul told us to live at peace with everyone, if possible.
In my opinion, chivalry is a way of showing respect to ladies and demonstrating a humble and serving attitude.
January 28th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
I like your passage. I would say that your right about girls not necessarily always wanting our help. Where I live it was hard for 3 years to not be nice to girls because if I were nice to them they, figuratively speaking they spat
in my face. But thanks to you and my DAD, I realized the more times I did it the girls eventually liked that I helped them. Then someone who I didn’t know would come along I would do it for them and they would appreciate it a lot an d I would think nothing of it. So now i have lived there another 2 years things are never perfect but i still am Grateful.
Thanks…
February 10th, 2008 at 1:27 am
the french saying does not lead to the idea that a gentleman has responsibility to those weaker then him. the actual idea of courteousness comes from the ancient necessity to show respect to those of higher rank in society. the real ettiquette of society calls that men defer to women as they are of higher societal rank in the same way that the young should defer to the older. this is why men are introduced to women or youths to elders (it is then at the discretion of the woman or elder to accept the invitation), this is why you must always open the door for one who is older or female. you are serving them.
you do not open the door or carry their belongings because they are too weak to do so themselves, you do it because you are lower then them, you are their servant and that is how you show respect. that is the historical background of proper manners.
February 20th, 2008 at 12:07 am
[…] When you treat the women in your family, school, church, general aquaintance and happenstance meeting with respect and veneration, you are well on your way to becoming the man God calls you to be. A man who, like our Lord, would give of Himself for others…sacrificing His body in the ultimate form of service and love on the cross. A great resource for guys is The Rebelution series on Chivalry, written by two Christian teenage boys. Click here to read Part 1 of the five-part series (links for the other four parts are on this page).Part 2: A Girl’s Response to Chivalry […]
March 14th, 2008 at 3:10 am
Thanks, Brett, for a wonderful speech/article. My Father is a splendid example of what a true gentleman acts like, without being artificial or over the top. I am always humbled by the way he will wait for me to go through a door first, open the car door for me, or serve me in some other way. It blesses me no end! The only down side of it is that so few young men show the same courtesies. But, the few I know that do, hold a great place of reverence in my mind. May God bless all you young men out there as you seek to serve and bless your sisters, mothers, sisters in Christ, and the women in the world, despite the persecution you may undergo. I’m certain that your efforts do not go unnoticed nor unappreciated. Also, Brett, I REALLY agree with your Father’s statement that the way you treat your sisters or mother now is the same way you will eventually treat your wife. I have seen that to be too true in my own observations! Us ladies DO notice…*smile* God bless you richly, Brett.
March 28th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
[…] […]
March 28th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Hi, I read this and agree with everything it says. I know a few gentelmanly men, but when they do carry my things for me, I always fell slightly embarrassed. I don’t really know why. I suppose it could be because I feel I am not contributing and should be trying to help - even if they aren’t struggaling. Is this wrong? Should I ignore this feeling and let them help me anyway?
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:41 am
Wow, and I was saying I wish I lived in the 1800s! But really I should focus on the now so we can have that kind of gentlemen today! I agree with what you wrote, and I don’t know many gentlemanly men, but I do hope to see more of them. You said women should encourage men to do those kinds of things, but how do we do that? And sometimes when there is that rare gentleman who does do that, I feel awkward and slightly embarrassed. Is that normal? or wrong? What should I do in those kinds of situations?
May 5th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Being one of about three other men commenting on this particular topic, I’d like to say that I find the idea of “gentleman” to be one worth striving for, a quite honourable and prestigious social standee, the epitome of male integrity and character. A gentleman is not dead, but all too rare. I accept this great cause for a better male persona in a “not-so-much-better” culture where I look a fool for being mannered, thoughtful, and full of compassion and will, in longing to meet the perfect demands of a loving Father in Heaven.
May 7th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
Chivalry is such a beautiful thing! I have been to several homeschool co-ops and the guys there were all very gentlemanly anc chivalrous I just recently started a new tutorial and not onc has shown any kind of consideration to the other gender, (not that I have seen) guys we girls really appreciate and admire chivalry in you! Don’t think if goes unnoticed or rebuffed I for one find myself more apt to like and enjoy a guy if he shows to me that kind of consideration.
May 16th, 2008 at 10:54 am
Good work!
Just as another guy I’d like to say that I agree %100 with what you’ve said Brett. Guys and gals in Christ - stay strong!
May 26th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
I love it!! my mom and dad have been telling me to help gals since I was 9 but I have lisned but now I now other people do it man was it asome thanks brett!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 31st, 2008 at 6:40 pm
I totally agree that chivalry is dying (sad to say even in churches), but it’s partially the girl fault, i agree that we are not as appreciative when guys do things for us. I grew up being treated by guys with respect and the chivalry that is now rare and i really miss it. AWESOME blog Brett thanks….
June 12th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
I have a question. Recently I was at a football game with a guy friend I’d just met. It was cold and I was wearing a summer dress and he was wearing shorts. So I got a big jacket from my car and was wearing it for awhile, then I noticed my friend was shivering so I offered to let him use the coat, because I really wasn’t cold (I don’t get cold very easily) but he wouldn’t. I even took it off and just set it there but he wouldn’t take it…he said he’d feel bad and he wasn’t raised that way. I totally respected him for that but still…