When Chivalry Is Inconvenient
My six-year-old brother James is a gift-giver. One of his favorite ways of showing love for his family is to break out his “treasure chest” and present each family member an assorted handful of sea shells, rocks, and airsoft pellets.
Each of these episodes is followed by a brief period in which everyone except James is trying to figure out where to store this new handful of treasure. Small sticky rocks may not be convenient to deal with, but we love the fact that James is trying his best to serve us.
But I Don’t Like Ice Water
Unfortunately, many ladies have had similar experiences at the hands of not-so-young, not-so-cute gentlemen. In other words, men with good intentions but a lack of discernment can inconvenience women even while trying to serve them.
One of our female readers compares this to receiving a sweater that is many sizes too big. You appreciate the motivation, but now you’ve got to deal with a useless pile of fabric.
Another reader asked this question, “Guys offer to get me ice water, but I don’t like ice water! I don’t want to discourage the gentlemen, but do I have to accept the offer even though it’s inconvenient?”
When You’re Handed Sticky Rocks
Ultimately, the answer to that question is ‘no’. Ladies should not feel obligated to accept inconvenient offers from gentlemen. However, they should feel obligated to build their brothers up as men even as they refuse an act of service. To help them do this I have two encouragements for the ladies:
First, be gracious with “young” gentlemen. The reason our family joyfully accepts handfuls of rocks from James is because we know that at his age it is more important that he cares to serve us, than that he actually serves us.
In the same way, be gracious with those of us who are just learning to be gentlemen. We may be in a stage of development where we are very sensitive to your response. Consider being inconvenienced for a time so that we won’t be discouraged from developing servant’s hearts.
Second, help the men in your life become more discerning. It’s not likely that James will still be giving out handfuls of sticky rocks when he’s twenty-five. Whether it happens by itself or through our input we expect him to become more thoughtful in the near future. So, though we accept it joyfully now, our ultimate goal is for his competence to match his good intentions.
You should have the same goal for the gentlemen in your life. Though you may put up with it for a season (see above), you don’t want us to remain clueless of how to actually serve you.
How To Say “No”
So, how can you help men become more discerning without discouraging us from being gentlemen? Well, I believe that there are three practical ways to direct but not demoralize the men in your life:
1.) Still communicate appreciation. Even a misguided offer deserves gratitude if the heart is in the right place. If you need to turn down an offer make sure you add, “But thank you so much for asking!”
2.) Explain why you are saying “No.” If all you say is, “No thanks, I’m fine,” men will most likely assume that you don’t welcome chivalry. The truth probably is that you just don’t welcome that specific offer — so tell us that!
If you don’t like ice water, feel free to say something like, “Thank you so much for asking, but I actually don’t like ice water.” This kind of response not only provides us with useful information for serving you in the future, but it also prevents us from feeling that the problem is our desire to help.
3.) If possible, provide an alternative. One of the best ways to help men become more discerning is to tell us what would actually serve you.
There are ladies in our church who are so good at doing this. I’ll ask them if I can carry something for them and they’ll respond by saying, “Thanks so much for asking! You know what, I’ve got this just fine, but there’s some heavy stuff still in the car that I’d love your help with.”
The result of this exchange is that I go trotting off to the car feeling manly and strong and she is actually being helped. Over time I have learned to ask if there’s anything else in the car I can carry before I offer to take something out of a lady’s hands. These wise ladies have successfully taught me to be more discerning.
It All Depends On Our Hearts
Of course, all of the “encouragements” and “practical steps” in the world can’t make women care about building their brothers up as men. And if a man’s only desire is to flirt and show off, all of the instruction in the world can’t make him care about actually serving women.
From the beginning we’ve seen that chivalry is a matter of the heart — not a list of rules or steps. This means that what we really need is a heart-changer; a savior. And that is what we have in Jesus Christ.
Read: Part One / Part Two / Part Three / Part Four / Part Five
September 28th, 2006 at 9:07 am
Thank you very much for this series, the whole thing has been a blessing to me.
I’m going to have my brothers read this series.
I really love the “sticky rocks” illustration.
September 28th, 2006 at 9:18 am
This is a “sticky” issue, so thank you for providing a few good ideas to deal correctly with similar situations.
September 28th, 2006 at 9:43 am
That’s awesome Brett. I really appreciate this series. Your slight humor about things makes them easier to recieve.
Well done, my friend, well done.
September 28th, 2006 at 10:04 am
Thank you! I have struggled with finding out how to say no the right way before, and this post was very helpful!
September 28th, 2006 at 10:14 am
Thank you!! That is so good to know–very helpful. You’ve done a marvellous job once again, Brett.
)
(Oh, and the “sticky rocks” analogy was hilarious! My younger brother–age 4–likes catching toads for gifts…that’s exciting.
September 28th, 2006 at 10:17 am
Thank you for another helpful post! The whole series has been most enjoyable and helpful. Thank you.
September 28th, 2006 at 11:02 am
This is very insightful. I think too often I come across as someone who doesn’t welcome chivalry, simply because I wasn’t quite sure how to handle saying “no” in a “sticky rocks” situation!
September 28th, 2006 at 11:16 am
Wow! Wow! Wow! Brett, thank you so much for posting this! It truly inspired me to check my response to every “young” man who tries to help and assist me in anything. I really liked the ending and how you brought back to the heart. A heart change is crucial! Thank you again for writing this in such a gracious way. Blessings!
September 28th, 2006 at 11:51 am
We appreciate the fact that one of your many purposes in this blog is to encourage young men to lead, and young ladies to follow. It is so important for young men to be ready, willing, and able to take the lead and be respected in spiritual matters, as well as in social situations. From a girl’s perspective, in a social context or in any discussion context, we are probably waiting for you young men to initiate a conversation. Please do not presume we do not want to speak with you just because we do not speak to you first. Young men, we want to be able to respect you, and we want you to lead us as strong Christian brothers leading their sisters. And as this latest post has instructed, we ought to encourage you as you strive to become godly and courteous gentlemen.
September 28th, 2006 at 12:09 pm
Thanks so much for providing different options for us ladies. I love how you not only help the other guys with how to be chivalrous, but giving us ladies a chance to encourage them in doing it.
Great post. I loved it.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:27 pm
This is a great post! The world needs more people with the same mindset. Thanks for the good ideas.
September 28th, 2006 at 6:23 pm
Thank you so much. I was just having this exact problem today, not knowing how to say ‘no’ gently to a really nice guy that I just don’t care about. Thanks for posting this!
September 28th, 2006 at 8:41 pm
May God bless you as you raise the standard for Christlike living, as you encourage the Saints, and speak our Lord’s truth.
Brett, thank you for the wise reminders. The day before you started this series, I had asked God for wisdom in all these areas, and praise His name, He used you to to answer that prayer. Thank you for being willing to be an instrument of God.
September 28th, 2006 at 9:20 pm
I have to join with all the other young ladies here in expressing my appreciation for this wonderful series! This, and the Chivalry discussion threads on the Forum have been SUCH A BLESSING to me. Thank, Alex and Brett, from the bottom of my heart for your beautiful Christlike teaching on such a near-forgotten but so much needed virtue!
Vive la Rebelution!
Vive TRUE gentlemen and TRUE ladies!
Your Sister in Christ,
Claire
September 28th, 2006 at 9:21 pm
Oops… please pardon the typos in my comment! I had to re-type it because it was lost the first time. The good Lord has such ways of humbling us, doesn’t He?
Joyfully,
Claire
September 29th, 2006 at 5:07 pm
Thank you for this EXCELLENT series! I am passing the link on to my younger friends!
Blessings,
Mrs. Brodock
September 29th, 2006 at 5:09 pm
Wonderful, well expressed thoughts!
I have recently decovered this site, as well as the forum, and have been so encouraged by your refreshing perspective!
Being the only girl in my family it has been imparative that I learn to allow my brothers to cultivate chivalry! Sometimes it’s inconvenient, but oh-so-worth the results!
I’ve had to learn that it’s not a matter of what I can and cannot handle, or even whether or not I could accomplish a task more quickly.
My friends are often surprised by the things I call my brothers to help. “You could have done that yourself, couldn’t you?”
“Certainly I could,” I reply “but I want my boys to to have the blessing of fulfilling their God-given roles!”
September 29th, 2006 at 6:01 pm
I have a really hard time accepting help from guys. I always have. My automatic response to any offer is no without any thought about what they offered. I can never put my finger on why this is. I guess I have never really seen why I should accept help that I really don’t need. I never thought that this was wrong until recently and I am still not convinced. I guess what I really want to know is if it really is important for guys to be chivalrous to ladies? What does it really matter?
September 29th, 2006 at 6:22 pm
Here is yet another expression of gratitude for this series on chivalry!
It has been especially encouraging to me because of the fact that it was
written by a young man! Thank you for taking the initiative, Brett. Just
knowing that there are young men out there who are striving to become
true gentlemen inspires me to strive even harder to be a true lady!
September 30th, 2006 at 12:24 am
Bwhahaha, I actually like this series, this stuff is good.
You should write about how guys shouldn’t be offended when we say no to sweets or dessert. We’ll have it when we want to, and if it’s not at that moment, don’t give us a hard time about it. Some of us actually (try to) watch our weight and it’s something guys should appreciate! =P
September 30th, 2006 at 5:37 am
What do you do if guys always ignore you? I’d be glad to accept anything they offered me if they actually offered me something.
September 30th, 2006 at 7:58 am
Katrina: You bring up an interesting question. What should you do if guys completely ignore you? Well, the answer is that there isn’t really anything you can do (besides having them read this series).
The truth is that girls can’t make guys be gentlemen, just like guys can’t make girls be ladies. It takes both men and women working together for chivalry to work. This series has supplied helpful information to both guys and girls for how they can serve each other in this area, but it doesn’t allow a girl or guy to singlehandedly change everyone around them. We still need each other, and most importantly, we need God.
September 30th, 2006 at 9:41 am
Does James read this? O:-)
This is very good. I like how you show how ladies can encourage gentlemen to be chivalrous while saying “no.”
Emily Haas: That’s a very good question. While Scripture doesn’t specifically command chivalry, it is spread all throughout.
The whole principle of the “stronger” serving the “weaker,” especially as exemplified in Christ laying down His life for us, is one thing that sets Christianity apart from the world (where the weak serve the strong). Since men will eventually model Christ’s service to the Church with their wives, any practice we get beforehand makes it easier. 
September 30th, 2006 at 9:49 am
Thanks Brett. It’s at least good to know there are good guys out there like you and your brother who do care. Maybe some day I’ll run in to someone like you guys.
October 2nd, 2006 at 7:27 am
Very Nice! I am very impressed with your blog. You have the heart to tell what you think is moraly correct and the brain to word it in a way that will make people understand. Your veiws are very close to mine. Infact I have, just this morning, started a blog about my veiws. http://heisheroic.blogspot.com . And, because you are homeschooler, such as myself, I will give you the link to homeschooler blogs. I have one for my everyday life and I thought, once I saw this, that you guys might want one too! http://homeschoolblogger.com/drumstx14/ This is mine, from there you can get your own.
Lanna
P.S. I will point my friends to your site here. I think they will find it most inspiring. Thumbs UP!
October 2nd, 2006 at 7:58 pm
I guess I’m a Bad Homeschooler, but I really, really hate chivalry. In my experience, when guys practice chivalry, it’s all about them being gentlemen and them looking good. It doesn’t really matter to them whether their gentlemanliness is helpful, let alone whether it’s needed. I sort of end up feeling like a project. Now, I don’t think everything has to be about me, but if I’m going to be a teaching aid to guys, I’d rather teach them how to care about people and be courteous and nice. I guess one of the main reasons I dislike chivalry is that it involves people doing things just because they’re supposed to, and it offers an easy set of rules to follow as a replacement for actually being kind and thoughtful.
For example, I took a class last year that met a couple times a month. After class, we had to put things away, and I would always carry a table or several to the storage room. Once in a while, someone would grab the other end (always another girl). On the last day, class ended early, and a couple of the boys decided to take away the tables I was folding. I don’t think they actually cared if I strained my back–-for the whole school year, I’d been lugging the bigger tables away and nobody minded, so I don’t see why it would be a problem if I rolled the small round tables to the end of the room. I got the impression that they were making a show of chivalry because it was convenient––to them. (I was left standing there with nothing to do. I hadn’t really made a habit of talking to people after class; I put away tables instead. It was kind of my way of entertaining myself.)
Or, for another example, one of my debate opponents offered to carry my filebox for me on the way to our round. I declined, and when he tried to insist, I told him it was broken and needed to be carried with two hands as the contents would fly everywhere if one tried to hold it by the handle. That was true, but it was also very much an afterthought. Aside from the insult to my expert filebox-carrying skills, I had a massive grudge against him for his (in my opinion) less than exemplary conduct the last time I’d hit him (in a debate round, though at the time I would have vastly preferred a different context) and I didn’t want to be indebted to him in any way.
For all his chivalry outside the round, during it he refused to let me answer his questions, made very sketchy arguments playing on the judge’s emotions, and claimed I read no evidence in my speech (and then quoted it). It’s not I expect people to debate “nice” with me because I’m a girl; I just think honesty and courtesy are always good and I respect them more than token gestures.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I wish people cared more about people than about how they’re “supposed” to act. Chivalry often does more harm than good, and I, for one, have sometimes been offended by people who are probably well-meaning but who don’t think to care.
October 2nd, 2006 at 8:10 pm
Not So Fair Maiden: I appreciate you sharing your thoughts, except that it doesn’t seem that you’ve taken the time to read this series, or even the post you’ve commented on, very carefully. The issue of men’s motives has been repeatedly addressed along with what I see as appropriate responses to those wrong motives.
I completely share your disapproval with men who are “serving” entirely out of self-centered motives. However, the problem is men and women who lack an accurate understanding of what chivalry is and why they’re supposed to do it. I would encourage you to take the time to read this entire series, just to make sure you’re not contributing the problems you see.
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:14 am
Thanks so much for this series! It’s been a blessing reading all the articles!
October 3rd, 2006 at 8:25 pm
You’re right. I read through the series rather quickly and as a result ended up saying a bunch of stuff you agree with anyway (I’ve now reread the articles at your suggestion). I also kind of got carried away with all my anti-chivalry sentiments and my point didn’t really get across. I’m sorry.
My problem with chivalry is this: even real chivalry is about guys doing things for me just because I’m a girl. To quote Section 4, In fact, if our motivation for serving a woman is anything other than, “This is a woman that I have been called to serve and protect,” we have counterfeit chivalry.
Most gentlemen that I encounter just see me as an opportunity to practice their chivalry, or maybe even to follow their call. so to speak. I think they kind of forget that I’m a person too. They almost never talk to me except to offer to do things. It’s hard to accept help from someone who doesn’t take any interest in me as a person and won’t carry on a conversation with me––I’d feel like I was using a person like that as a pack animal (except that a pack animal might actually care about me, because I’d feed it). The result is that I end up less comfortable, even if the gentleman is being genuinely chivalrous and putting my comfort first. Does that make any sense?
I wouldn’t mind as much if the gentleman actually admitted it was about him and said straight out “Would you mind if I helped you with that?”, because I value honesty and I can forgive most things if they’re actually stated instead of hinted at. (It would also help if he looked me in the eye, addressed me by name, and said at least three sentences about something else.)
The thing is, service and protection are okay sometimes but they’re not what girls really need. Most of us can get by perfectly well on our own, although a lot of girls I know love getting unnecessary help from gentlemen. I love it when guys notice I’m a person and act like they’re happy to see me and ask me how I am––even if they let me open the door for them and talk to me in slang I barely understand. But most gentlemen don’t actually talk to me and don’t know I have no real brothers and need people to be brothers to me more than I need them to hold the door. And it would probably be too much of a sacrifice for them even if they knew.
That’s what I mean about niceness versus chivalry.
Of course, there are occasional Nice Gentlemen. I think I’ve met approximately two. They could get away with telling other boys to change their conversation because there’s a lady nearby and still be liked by everyone, even me, and even when I was the one girl in the room. What I really appreciated about them was their friendliness, much more than their manners.
Now, it is true that a lot of the problem is on my part. I need to stop seeing well-meaning guys as nuisances just as much as they need to stop seeing me as a task. I also need to be more honest, as in telling the truth rather than just not lying.
Would it help for me to tell aspiring gentlemen exactly what I think of chivalry and kindness? Should I accept insulting chivalry (and/or false chivalry) and admit I’m only doing it as a favor and then give my opinion? Or should I just accept it with no lecture and then use the time I have to spend with them while they’re “helping” me to show them how to be nice––provided I ever actually learn? Accepting help from people who don’t care who I am is really humiliating, but then…I definitely need lessons in humility.
October 3rd, 2006 at 8:31 pm
Sorry about all the bold in the last comment, I have no idea how it happened––the only part I put in bold was the quote.
October 8th, 2006 at 6:06 pm
That was a really great series
I enjoyed reading it, and it challenged me in a lot of ways, as well as being encouraging.
October 22nd, 2006 at 4:41 am
Hi there Rebelution! Just read your series of articles on chivalry, noticed the low ratio of male respondents and thought I’d add my tuppence worth…
1) Girls, Brett is spot-on when he says you squash our interest in helping you when you constantly turn it down!
2) Especially in ‘courtship’ circles, girls, some of you are chronically bad at reading marriage proposals into the slightest acts of kindness. Brett is on-the-money when he says “Be aware of your own tendency to read into the actions of your brothers. Unless the flirtation is obvious … assume … this man is simply treating you as a sister in Christ, and nothing more.” He goes on to say “Many potential gentlemen are discouraged by women who welcome or refuse their service as if it were an offer of marriage.” He’s talking about me and many young men like me - I vouch that we hold back when we think you’re assuming ‘interest’ on our part.
On the whole, EXCELLENT articles Brett but now I want to ask you some questions :
Scripture explicitly states that we should rise in the presence of elderly _men_. In contrast, some chivalry advocates say we should honour _women_ by rising when they enter the room. How did we get so far off-track Scripturally that we ignore explicit Scriptural commands for the honouring of certain categories of _men_, and yet use exactly the same form of honouring for women?
It’s a general question, not an accusation that you Brett are one of the ones who make this foolish mistake (in fact I am confident you’re one of the ones who _don’t_), but it leads to a larger question…
At what point do we cross the line from honouring womanhood to worshipping it?
Earlier in the article you state that “women deserve our service regardless of their age or appearance”. I completely agree with “regardless of their age or appearance”. I feel much more comfortable helping a “plain Jane” than “some pretty thing”, and frequently go out of my way to make a less attractive woman feel comfortable and appreciated for who she is, whilst I generally have little time or regard for “beauties” - I figure they get enough attention as it is from others - they don’t need any more from me.
But - and excuse me here if you feel it’s nit-picking - I strongly disagree that women “deserve” our service. As soon as something is _deserved_, the provision of it ceases to be a gift.
I completely agree with your approach to living a life looking out for how to serve others rather than how to please ourselves. You talk about putting others’ comfort ahead of our own comfort. I COMPLETELY AGREE. Fantastic stuff.
But - and here I’m interested in your comment as to whether you agree or why you disagree - as a Christian, I hold my personal comfort in extremely low regard. Yes, I do put others’ comfort ahead of my own, but my own comfort is so far down the list of my priorities, that others’ comfort is still quite some way down the list and still ahead of my own!
I recently came across some folk who take chivalry, well, I think way too far, and that’s why I’m kind of allergic to crossing the line between what I see as clearly Scriptural, and jumping deep into _cultural_ territory on this issue.
Vastly more important than my own comfort is my spiritual growth. Vastly more important than your comfort is your spiritual growth. Vastly more important than a young woman’s comfort is her own spiritual growth. Vastly more important than _anyone’s_ comfort is _anyone_ _else’s_ spiritual growth. If e.g. I’m in a conversation with a non-Christian and we’re touching on deep issues of the soul and his need for Christ, this is vastly more important than making a young woman nearby slightly more comfortable by pulling out a chair for her.
If I have a heart of selfless service, I will realise that it is more important to serve this man by communicating the Gospel than to serve this woman by pulling out her chair.
(This does not make it _wrong_ to serve the woman this way, but if in the situation it’s obviously likely to disrupt the much more important process, I do foolishly to serve the woman’s comfort ahead of the man’s need.)
Chivalry becomes idolatry when in putting others’ comfort ahead of my own, I put their comfort ahead of something of lasting value.
It’s important that we honour those women who value femininity. Sacrificing such a trifling thing as comfort in order to do so is a worthy exchange. Once again, great articles and thanks for writing on this topic!
Jonathan Field, Melbourne, Australia
October 26th, 2006 at 1:53 am
i love it when men act like gentlman- it makes me feel like such a lady. i try not to ‘read into it’ as anything other then them serving me (which i think is something women tend to do) but try and be humble enough to accept what they are doing. i agree that it’s us women who will help men be more open to step up and become chivalerous. with no strings attached of course
October 30th, 2006 at 9:50 am
I’ve appreciated this thread up until now. But now, it seems to have left the realm of the reasonable and gone into the absurd.
First of all, instead of asking someone if they would like ice water, ask them if they would like something to drink. “Can I get you something to drink?” That way, they don’t have to tell you what they DON’T want.
Second, so what if they do bring you something you don’t like. Ever hear of not looking a gift horse in the mouth, or that’s it’s the thought, not the gift, that counts? Ever hear of just being gracious?
Third, what to do with a sweater that’s too big? Ever hear of Salvation Army or Goodwill? Surely you can think of someone to share that sweater with.
Chivalry, like all other good things in life, is based on practical, courteous living. When it is taken out of the context of practical, courteous living, it becomes absurd. The point of treating women with courtesy - chivalry, if you will - is to bless them. Just ask yourself, “What can I do to bless this person?” If you don’t know, ask them. Or better yet, look around: what makes sense? It’s a hot, dry day. “Can I get you a cup of coffee?” On a hot, dry day?! Use your head! On a hot, dry day, if they want anything, it will be something refreshing - unless they’re addicted to coffee and just looking for their next fix. Courtesy - chivalry - is 95% just common sense and thoughtfulness.
Waitsel
October 30th, 2006 at 4:25 pm
In reply to a not so fair maiden:
Let me start off by saying that I understand where you’re coming from. I know exactly how you feel about guys not being able to say anything except “can I help you with that?” and then completely ignore you.
If a guy is just using you “as an opportunity to practice their chivalry,” as you said, rather than actually caring about you, it’s not true chivalry. I think that the point Brett is trying to get across is not just that guys open doors for girls and such, but that they have a change of heart. Any guy can open a door for a girl, but not every guy truly desires to serve her. A man who truly desire to serve the ladies in his life, isn’t just going to shove the doors open for them, grab the packages from their arms, and bring them meaningless “glasses of ice water.” No, he will genuinely care about that ladies’ wellbeing. If no one is talking to her, he will start a conversation. Chivalry is not just about doing something, it’s a bout serving. Many times it requires stepping out of one’s comfort zone. True chivalry is an attitude of the heart.
Nonetheless, you have to remember, that most guys who are attempting chivalry, are somewhat insecure. You can do your best to help them out by being responsive and genuinely appreciative of their efforts. They’re attempting to be gentlemen, so at least they’re trying! It’s better than nothing, right? Rather than trying to change them, I would suggest allowing the Lord to change you. Ask Him to give you the grace to see chivalrous gentlemen as He sees them and to be fully appreciative.
Also, if you want them to talk, you could give the conversation a little boost by asking an open-ended question.
I hope you’re not completely frustrated with the chivalrous gentlemen in your life and that this helps!
In Christ,
Katelyn
November 3rd, 2006 at 10:24 am
I’ve really enjoyed reading your blog, especially this particular series. Even at 22 and married with a son and another baby on the way, I still have alot to learn about chivalry and how to accept it graciously! : )
November 6th, 2006 at 3:11 pm
This series is really awesome! I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately, especially the door-opening thing. I am so flattered when a boy or man opens the door for me. It seems like it hasn’t happened much lately. Chivalry is sorely lacking. I would gladly let a well-meaning guy open the door or carry something for me even if I don’t really need help. I would consider it a huge compliment.
November 17th, 2006 at 5:12 am
Thanks for the tips for us ladies
November 23rd, 2006 at 9:29 am
I have thoroughly enjoyed this series.
I am the oldest of eight, six of which are boys, and it has been a good challenge to me to remember to encourage my brothers to be chivilrous men of God. It can be so easy to do things myself (especially since five of my brothers are under 9) but I have found that if I praise them even just for helping me carry a book or helping open a door they get excited about doing it again. I can’t believe I have the God given priviledge to help them learn to be godly gentlemen! Thank you for the effort you put into these articles.
November 28th, 2006 at 1:20 pm
Thank you so much for attacking this much needed issue. In today’s world is seems to me as a lady that chivalry is greatly lacking. I agree with your point of men and ladies working together to make true chivalry possible. I have read many books on womanhood and what it means to be a lady over the past few years, but I have really appreciated hearing this topic form a man’s perspective. Thank you for encouraging me to act as a lady and provide ways for the men around me to be gentlemen.
I also want to encourage the men out there to keep trying to be gentlemen! Chivalry is so lacking in our world today, but working together as men and women, we can still work at serving eachother in our different God given roles as gentlemen and ladies.
December 5th, 2006 at 7:14 pm
I have the privilege of knowing quite a few gentlemen and gentlemen-in-training. I like your definition of what makes someone a gentlemen, but I think you need to add something: the guy needs to actually care that the girl be served. If he’s just completing a task, the girl can tell. Several guys I know are perfectly polite, but have yet to treat me as though I’m really worth something as a person. I know exactly who they are, and I avoid them.
Another thing, the asking doesn’t always go the same way.
As an example: I am in a Christian cotillion. Unfortunately, I’m very sensitive to where a guy’s hand is on my back while dancing; if it’s too low, I get uncomfortable. When I ask a guy to move his hand up, his reaction tells me a lot about his attitude. Some of the guys move the hand up. Some argue constantly with me. I try to avoid the ones who argue–they’re not really looking out for me. It’s a simple thing I ask, but it has warned me that even some of the best-trained guys there have a long way to go.
Problem three: legalism. I am in fear of accepting a ride from a certain father connected with my cotillion. He has been known to reprimand girls for opening the car door themselves. I have no objection to a guy opening the door, and I’m not questioning his right to make the rules pertaining to his own car, but the attitude of not letting the girl do something bothers me.
I’m not sure if you’ll read that or even if it was quite coherent, but I tried.
December 10th, 2006 at 12:25 am
Jonathan Fields… I say diddo to your comment about a lack of guys replies. Maybe we are all scratching our heads to figure out what is going on!
Any way, I want to thank you for posting these articles. I read it and shared it with some of my some of sisters and my mother. We had a very good time discussing it. Summarizing our conversation might take half a day, so instead, I’ll just share some thoughts from our discussion.
I appreciate some of the girls mentioning the need to care about them as people, not just as girls. I am working on developing my care for the people around me in general, and girls in specific. The girls I know are very nice to me, but I have a hard time being nice back, mostly from a lack of practice.
But I would also like to share how it was that I begin to come to this realization. I have been taught to be a gentleman for years. I know all about opening doors and the other external niceities that go with it. But as I studied the purpose behind chivlary, I began to realise that it was a heart of caring about others that really mattered. But I tremble to think what would have happened to me if I had not been taught to be a gentleman. Having never considered doing the things I was already doing, I never would have dreamed of going beyond to care about the people I am trying to serve.
In closing, these things are becoming increasingly important in our day. Every thing that made our fore fathers great is being lost, including the art of having good manners. Good manners are necessary for more that show, they help us to be kind to other people because people need kindness. And while kindness should come from the heart, it is still kindness if it is just because it is the right thing to do. I appreciate the reminder to examine heart motives, but we should do the right thing regardless of how we feel.
December 12th, 2006 at 5:46 am
For awhile now I’ve been stuck on supporting chivalry, gentlemen, ladies….and when I read this aritcle I was….well…humbled…encouraged….several times I’ve been in these situations where I don’t really need help, but at the same time, I want to let the guys help. When I let them down, I feel really bad and later I wish i could redo everything all over again. I mean, I am capable of lifting heavy, aquard (sp.?) things, and I do it quite often, so when someone asks if they can assist me, I feel, well a little “stuck”. Perhapes the world has brainwashed me into thinking that I need to impress the men by my strength…but as I Christian, I know that God wants me to be “weak”. He wants the men to do the heavy lifting….not just because the are men and they have muscles and etc…but because they are….men…the woman was created after man…she was not built to be strong….oh!!! how do i explain this!!!! This is such a confusing subject for me. I mean, i know what’s right, but, it’s just doing it. And even if i don’t need help, to share with the guy who offers why….but I’m afraid if I do that…i’ll seem rude. Please guys, how do think us women should act? and could tell us why? I need to understand a little bit more why being a “weak” woman is so important to you. I’m just, spiritually and mentally confused.
Thank you so much Brett for posting this. I know this shall help and challenge me.
In Christ our Lord,
Amanda Ingersoll
December 19th, 2006 at 10:08 pm
Chivalry is a serious concern of mine, and something that I attempt to make part of my life every day. I agree with a great deal of what you have said. There is one thing I wanted to open a discussion on, and I would suggest that if anyone has anything to say to me regarding the following, they email me. cwprbs@hotmail.com I am open to discussion, I assure you.
I do not worship Jesus or God. I am in no way “against” Christianity, in any way, and, in my own way, I believe that Jesus and God exist, though that is not the only thing I believe. I do not worship, however. My chivalry is out of a sense of personal honor. It is how I conduct myself because that is how I believe I ought to. I just hope to make the point that this motive for Chivalry cannot be discounted. I do not nessacarily believe you were, but I merely wished to make sure that it be understood that chivalry is not confined to Believers. It is a virtue that, whatever you believe, is worthy to follow.
I am a Gentleman.
January 18th, 2007 at 10:17 am
I agree with the main premise of these articles, which we seem to come back to again and again: that chivalry is above all an attitude of the heart. I have also had the feeling of being marginalized or ignored by boys; I have never had a conversation with some boys whom I have grown up with in church. Part of civilized manners in older times was for the gentlemen to ‘entertain’ the ladies, by engaging them in conversation as well as seeing to their comfort. This was also the responsibility of anyone who was hosting another person. I feel convicted, however, that I need to be friendly to boys and encourage them. Obviously, I know I shouldn’t ‘pursue’ as in always singling them out, but I should try to at least give them a ‘hello’ and a smile.
to “not so fair Maiden” I would like to ask you to ask yourself whether you have bitterness in your heart. Do you feel like you are always on the outside? Does that make you only draw inwards? It is painful to reach out to others and not be received, but that may be what it takes to develop friendships, especially toward other girls. Maybe you are in a situation where you feel new, like in a new group or a new city. In that case, it is the courteous thing for the people already there to reach out to you. But after a period of time, if that doesn’t happen, try not to only draw inward into isolation.
Thank you, “not so fair Maiden”, for listening to what I have to say. I don’t know anything about your heart or your situation, but I sensed that you might receive these ideas. Love to you in Christ!
January 28th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
You know, it’s funny, but girls these days really don’t appreciate gentelmanly behavior, as you’ve mentioned! I remember this guy who used to open the doors for the ladies in one of my classes. None of them offered so much as a thank you in return. I would always smile and thank him. Though he continued to open the door for the rest of the ladies, he always smiled when he did it for me. I could tell that it gave him more joy to do it for someone who accepted and appreciated it.
Good job guys! Keep it up!
February 25th, 2007 at 12:13 am
Another hello from New Zealand!
I said the same thing on my last post which I put on the first article of this series, but I want to repeat it here again. I want to challenge more Kiwi guys to be chivalrous because so far I haven’t met a SINGLE chivalrous guy from NZ. It’s sad but true. I’ve had gentlemanly behaviour from Americans, Australians, South Africans but not from New Zealanders. Maybe it’s because in this country, the culture and lifestyle is more laid back, I don’t know. I’m from India where originally women were treated as lesser beings. It’s changing now, which is good. So coming from that culture, I really appreciate chivalry. It makes you a better person when you learn to give and put others before yourself. It builds character!
Thanks for this great series!
Shalita
March 2nd, 2007 at 3:52 am
I posted this earlier in an older section and didn’t get much feedback. Would it be insulting for a woman to open doors, carry stuff, etc. etc. for another woman and even men? What’s wrong with a little gender-bending if all you want to do is help others? I don’t know why but that feels like the more fitting role for me to take… but what I’m wondering is whether people may find it offensive for a woman to be chivalrous.
March 3rd, 2007 at 11:01 am
Hi!
Thanks for this wonderful series! I have a question: Is it rude or unappreciative to open doors for other young men? I have done this many times before and I want to know if this lowers the young men’s self-esteem at all. I am just a naturally serving and courteous person and I automatically open doors for other people-regardless of gender or age.
Lauren
May 4th, 2007 at 7:28 am
I read this series and it felt like a breath of fresh air - but man! It feels like I live in the wrong country and culture to EVER expect gentlemanly behavior from guys around me. I live in South Africa and part of my heritage is German. We females are here (according to their attitude) to beautify their home and life, but ‘don’t go expecting me to be all sappy around you’. Try to point out the difference between being sappy and just being a gentleman, and you’re reminded that gentlemen are English. They aren’t. Lame excuse, I know.
Thankfully I have an absolute gentleman in my dad who is half English, half Norwegian. At least in him I can know what guys should be like.
Oh, and the other thing that drives me crazy is that as soon as I tell the guys that they should think about opening a door for a lady once in a while - I instantly am labelled a feminist.
I guess another problem is that the Christian young men are plagued with thinking that it’s impure to pay any attention whatsoever to a girl. And I suppose girls feed off this mentality and reciprocate it. Eventually it becomes a catch-22 situation.
Ah well. I can only hope that if I’m ever blessed with sons I can raise them to be true gentlemen.
Thank you for inspiring hope in me that there are still some Lancelots out there.
July 31st, 2007 at 7:11 pm
A letter… from me,
To all of my chivalrous brothers in Christ (you all hopefully know who you are):
I would like to thank you personally for being so kind and self-less to us women. You are greatly appreciated, including by me. I know it is hard at times, and I’m sure we do not make it any easier on you by refusing your kindness or seeming (or being) ungrateful. And yet, even in spite of that, you still persist in servitude and selflessness. Even if we all do not commend or thank you for your kindness, God sees all and is glad to see His children following in the ways of His Son.
I must say though, sometimes it is hard for us too… chivalry teaches all a lesson in humility, myself included; when I struggle with a heavy box or something, and one of you kind gentlemen offer your help, my first thought is that you must think I’m incompetent or something (even when I truly need help)– but I apologize for that, because I know now that you are not implying that, and because you are sincerely trying to help; I am very thankful for that.
I am also pleased that you are striving to have a servant’s heart. (Which Jesus had too and! Also, in Mark 9:35, it says, “If anyone wants to be first,he must be the very last, and the servant of all” [Jesus said this while he washed the disciples’ feet] )
I will do my best to help you in your endeavor,
July 31st, 2007 at 7:22 pm
Addition to that last post— haha, i clicked the Submit button on accident *oops*
As i was saying… I will do my best to help you all in your endeavor(s), rather than be a hindrance… and I’m sure many other sisters in Christ feel the same way.
Sisters, if any others of you read this and feel the same way, please say so on these blogs… I think the guys could always use more assurance that we are behind them and will support our Christian bros 110% on their quests for a better relationship with God and with their Christian sisters.
Deo et pax vobiscum,
(God and peace be with you)
Elisabeth J. Gruber
July 31st, 2007 at 10:06 pm
I really liked all these articles; they are very true. I know personally, in one area I especially appreciate a gentlemen is when I have to physically be in an awkward position..like climbing in and out of something higher up or lower down. I remember one time I was climbing up into the back of a bus and in order to get in I would have to awkwardly wheel around and climb in. One of the guys grabbed my hand and pulled me in….it was a blessing.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:20 pm
“Then my soul will rejoice in the LORD and delight in His salvation. My whole being will exclaim, “Who is like You, O LORD ?
Psalm 35:9/10″
I just remembered a favorite quote that seems to go with this a little.
“Manhood in every culture is shaped by a variety of forces. But in every culture, one of the dominant forces that determine the quality of its masculinity is the quality of its femininity.”
-Eric Ludy
I love this quote because it always helps me remember that by me being a lady, it helps make them men…or real men…and that I shouldn’t be in this for myself, but instead to build the character of the brothers around me.
August 1st, 2007 at 11:17 am
(I am the identical twin sister to Elisabeth J. Gruber, and I am writing to all my sisters in the Lord…)
A letter for all the young ladies struggling to accept the help of our chivalrous brothers in Christ…
Hello Sisters! I for one completely understand how you are feeling. No one wants to feel like they are vulnerable and need assistance. But God has called men to be the provider for their sisters in Christ. The fact that the young men want to help you is a sign of their growing maturity and their servant heart! We should encourage them in these practices! We should be helping them achieve their goals of selflessness, not discouraging them from doing it! There have been several instances I have seen where a young man would offer to help a young lady who was clearly struggling with her burden. She told him no, she didn’t want anyone’s help, because she was fine. That, in turn, left the young man humiliated in his attempts to be a real gentleman. Sisters, if we kindly refuse the help of our brothers in Christ, we need to make sure they understand how much we appreciate their offers to help us, and thank them profusely for wanting to help!
(a note to all the young men who want to help):
On behave of all the young women, I want to personally thank all of you youn men who have made an effort to help us. You cannot imagine how thankful I am that God has put in your hearts a desire to help us! And although we may not accept the assistance all te time, it means so much to us that you care about your sisters enough to want to help. Let me tell you this: It does not go unnoticed! Please do not think that nobody notices your selflessness! God takes notice, and so do your brothers and sisters in Christ.
In His Service,
~ Kirsten A. Gruber
August 13th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
Yes! Perfect! If I can’t help a woman with exactly what I asked about, than I would appreciate it if she would tell me what else I could do!
August 28th, 2007 at 6:00 pm
Thanks for this whole series. It was really helpful to me. I never really thought that turning down help would discourage a guy to be a gentleman. I just didn’t want him to be bothered. Now I know that if he’s offering to help me, then I should accept because he’s the one that asked, and if he didn’t really want to help, then he wouldn’t. Thanks for your ensight and helpful suggestions!
December 2nd, 2007 at 1:38 am
Last summer my youth pastor resigned to go lead another church. Before he left he encouraged me as a senior to lead the other students in their walk with God. I said sure. Then I realized that I was the only senior. I was also the only homeschooler. I was also completely alone. I still am the only senior in my church. I’m still the only homeschooler. I’m not alone. and your blog has helped me realize that. It has helped me minister and lead the younger girls in my youth group and this series has lit a fire in my heart to reach out to the guys in my group.
Brett - THANK YOU! I cannot express in words how much you and Alex have encouraged me over the past year and I am so thankful to God for all that you have done, are doing, and are going to do. Thank you again and God bless.
December 31st, 2007 at 11:22 pm
just wanted to share something reg. unnecesary chilvarous acts.
for awhile back, i used to lug around this heavy laptop bag. and when my arms gave out, i simply slung the strap over my shoulder, hoping always that i wouldn’t topple over ’cause of the weight imbalance.
but after awhile, my body accommodated to the new stress, thank god, and walking to class became easier.
a Christian brother from my batch has seen me struggle with my daily load and offered his services profusedly.
and because it would really inconvenience him (i should know), i declined.
again and again and again.
until i became too tired to say no.
and let him have it.
and on the first try, as i passed the strap to him (i can do this single handedly now), his shoulder gave under the weight.
body bent over slightly, he tried to adjust to the new burden.
now, i’m not exactly large, but my shoulders are broader than his. and the truth is, his built is just smaller!
and yea…i had a lot of time to deal with the extra pounds.
i’ve guessed that he mightn’t be able to handle it, but i didn’t know how to say ‘no’ the right way.
i do appreciate his thoughtfulness, but really, that’s just ridiculous!
thank god, class was over with no stairs-climbing in the schedule, and he made it to the cafeteria, alive.praise god.
when situations like this arise, how do you convey the ‘no’ and still build him up? i don’t want to physically maim everyone who tries to be gentlemanly when they can’t handle it.
help?
January 22nd, 2008 at 10:34 am
Thank you Brett for this eye opening article!
You hit the nail on the head as you were pointing out that young men can display chivalry, with alterative motives. In my situation, I forgot a sweater for an evening activity, and a young man that I know offered me one. It was very flattering to get that attention, at first I said no, but accepted his sweater. But Later I realized that His intensions were to just flirt with me, and puff his egoo up. Thak you again for the articles, they were very great pieces of reading.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:03 am
Diana Fielding:
I can definitely imagine where you’re coming from, and how you feel. Although I have not had that sort of expirience, I HAVE observed instances such as that. It IS very difficult because you appreciate his wanting to help, but know it will be exceedingly difficult for him if he tries to take on the challenge. Not to mention the injuries that could be aquired from the burden…
I’m just kidding about that last part. 
But I don’t think there IS any clear-cut right way to say something like what you are wanting to say…That you greatly appreciate his wanting to help, but it would be a bit too difficult for someone not accustomed to the weight of the bag to carry it around.
I’m afraid I’m not much of a help; I’m sorry. Just do your best, though. I’m praying for you!
In His Service,
~Kirsten A. Gruber
April 17th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
i suppose i’m rather unlucky, but i don’t know a whole lot of guys that practice chivalry. my brothers rarely do, but i don’t mind because, well, they’re my brothers. my problem is i hardly know how to respond when a guy offers to help. i absolutely loove chivalry and it annoys me when i mess it up. i’m also quite a romantic i suppose, but i also loove the thought of guys protecting me. for instance my brother(he’s the only chivalrous one) has had several serious talks with me about guarding my heart against guys who are just flirting with me for the thrill. he said he plans to tell me when a guy is sincere or not. i guess it’s clearer from a guys perspective. anyhow, it just put him way up there in my esteem, even if it never happens it’s the thought that counts, big bro. also in more physical realms. girls are generally rather weak. (sorry if you girls aren’t but i certainly am)hence it is guys’ responsibility to look after them. if a guy opens a door for me i will be impressed, but if he carries me inside after i sprained my ankle, i might melt.
April 29th, 2008 at 9:49 am
Hey guy (men) we really need to step it up and make this differnce happen. All these girls tell that they respect us for that and first of all that is what we are commanded to do is to respect our sister in Christ with love and care for them. Lets try alittle harder guys!
thanks brett
May 2nd, 2008 at 6:55 pm
This is awesome, ya’ll! I’m so grateful to see godly young men standing up and being who God intended them to be. I’ve made a commitment to serve the young men I know as best I can, and accepting their chivalrous offers of service is a tangible way of building them up in the body of Christ. (Eph. 4:16)
Again, it blows me away to see you guys, Christian homeschoolers like myself, talking about the real things that matter. The modesty survey was incredibly helpful. It helps to know the stumbling blocks so that I can avoid them the best I can. I actually didn’t know there was this many faithful young men in America until I saw the names on the petition! This was so encouraging. God bless you, brothers.
Rebecca –’-@
May 24th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Wow! Great way to end the series, Brett! I especially loved the advice on HOW to say no. I usually just decline saying “No thank you.” And never thought much of it. But this made me realize that I still need to encourage them to keep trying…even when that time it didn’t work out like they had wanted.
This whole series has really helped me see my role in keeping godly chivalry alive! It was a great read!
June 8th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Thank you so much for writing this series. I had never known that guys were chivalrus and would go out of their way to help me. I know now that how I respond to gentlemen affects other ladies. I highly appreciate your willingness to enlighten us.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Thank you for taking the time to write, and publish these articles!
They have been very helpful as reminders, and your articles showed me some pointes
I had not thought of before. How to say no, for instance, that was a good point.
In the past it has been difficult to respond to young men’s helpful offers, now, however, I am going to attempt to always remember, allow them to be the gentleman G-d designed them to be.
June 20th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
I just recently discovered this website. It’s AWESOME!!! I have been on every day, and have learned so mcuh and been incredibly encouraged. A huge thank you to everyone who contributes to it!!!
I wanted to make a comment to girls reading this: in my own experience, girls often refuse chivalry because they are afraid of what their friends might think. One night, at a youth event, one of my friends was cold because she had forgotten to bring a jacket. Another guy took his off and offered it to her. Now this guy was in the less popular circle, and my friend refused. Later she commented on how frustrating it was that it happened in front of her friends. She didn’t want people getting the wrong impression- that he liked her or vice versa.
So girls, I want to encourage you NOT to care what people think about chivalry. Look to God and see what He thinks.
And you know what happened later? This guy felt hurt that she had refused his coat… and everyone knew it.
Don’t discourage guys from chivalry!!!
And guys, if you’ve ever been hurt when you’re trying to be chivalrous, don’t be discouraged.
Thanks, guys!
June 21st, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Thanks for addressing this! We really notice it when a guy will do something for us. For example something that my brother does for me is that wherever we go, he will open the door for me. SO SIMPLE, but I notice it and it does make me feel like a lady. Thanks for the advice on how to say no, that is SOOOO helpful.
Guys,
Please think about what you are doing before you do it. We love it when you try to help, but when I am helping with my youth group to load boxes on a truck, and there are still lots more to be loaded, now is not the time to ask if you can carry my box. But do continue to be chivilris, I know when a guy respects me like that, I definately respect him!
July 21st, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Hey! The whole thing is awesome! Thanks so much. I never really thought about it before but this is really relevant, especially when the guy is trying to “reform” from a two-face (he said it first (:= ) into a guy for God. I love this blog!
July 26th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Thanks a lot Brett!
I hope a lot of guys are reading this.
July 31st, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Since I have three sisters, I tend to struggle a lot with this. Sometimes I get so tired of trying to be chivalrous. But these articles are helpful.
God bless.
August 2nd, 2008 at 12:19 pm
I like this…but whoever wrote about receiving a sweater should have sent it back because it’s inappropriate to accept clothing from guys [I think] as a girl. At least it was deemed inappropriate in the earlier days. Same as not receiving expensive jewelry. Just a random thought.
August 8th, 2008 at 10:58 am
Brett, Thank you again for these posts. I generally don’t add my comment to the 100 plus that usually show up on y’all’s site but this series was absolutely wonderful. This subject is one that’s near and dear to my heart and I’ve never seen a better presentation (for it’s length) than yours. So, I add my voice to the others on here and offer cheers to you, a true gentleman. Thank you.
August 10th, 2008 at 11:27 am
My parents always taut my brother and myself to be gentlemen and when I believe I was about five we ran ahead of my mom and sisters to open the door and right when we had opened the door a lady walked up as started chewing us out for opening up the door and saying that she could do it herself and then walked indignantly into the store. Now after reading “When Lancelot Comes Riding” I notice that I have had a false chivalrous attitude toward some people and a real chivalrous attitude to others. Thanks for the encouragement guys, keep it up!
August 13th, 2008 at 10:59 am
One of my small group teachers used this series as an example to show how Christian guys should treat Christian girls. We’re studying relationships in my youth group right now, and it has been a very interesting lesson(s). Thankfully, I don’t have to look for chivalry that hard, though. My father and my grandfather and a lot of my guy-friends are all very chivalrous, and my younger brother is learning - however slowly
- to become a gentleman as well. Looking around at women having to do things for themselves such as carry heavy loads and open doors makes me sad for them and makes me realize how good I’ve got it. Now I’ll be the first to admit, sometimes I do not accept chivalry as graciously as I should, and if you catch me in a bad mood I’ll refuse it altogether, but reading this series helped me realize how much I need to encourage the guys around me to be gentlemen, and how to help them achieve that. Thanks for writing this, Brett! God bless!