Comments on: Announcing: The Modesty Survey Petition http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/ reb•e•lu•tion (reb’el lu shen) n. a teenage rebellion against the low expectations of an ungodly culture. Tue, 7 Oct 2008 16:26:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.3 by: Alia http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/#comment-206901 Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:33:25 +0000 http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/#comment-206901 I am deeply offended by this "petition" The sisters of Christ should just use basic common sense when choosing their attire. I think it is appalling that the men feel so superior in their religious desire to steer us in what they feel is the "right" direction. Is there a survey here for the sisters to take as a RESOURCE to "guide" our men of Christ. I would be highly interested in this. On another note. Instead of our men noticing such frivilous things such as underwear lines, maybe they should join our sisters of Christ to pay a deeper respect for the beauty that God has created all around us. I am deeply offended by this “petition” The sisters of Christ should just use basic common sense when choosing their attire. I think it is appalling that the men feel so superior in their religious desire to steer us in what they feel is the “right” direction. Is there a survey here for the sisters to take as a RESOURCE to “guide” our men of Christ. I would be highly interested in this.

On another note. Instead of our men noticing such frivilous things such as underwear lines, maybe they should join our sisters of Christ to pay a deeper respect for the beauty that God has created all around us.

]]> by: david http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/#comment-137754 Tue, 16 Oct 2007 20:36:00 +0000 http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/#comment-137754 hey, im new to the rebelution, my name is david shorey and my dad is a pastor of a sovereign grace church in NJ called trinity fellowship church. and i was on the site and i cant find the link to the survey, did i miss it? hey, im new to the rebelution, my name is david shorey and my dad is a pastor of a sovereign grace church in NJ called trinity fellowship church. and i was on the site and i cant find the link to the survey, did i miss it?

]]> by: Scott Buchanan http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/#comment-58449 Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:21:27 +0000 http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/#comment-58449 Several ladies have commented on here that they disagree with the survey because they dress differently than the survey suggests, and they "know" that "normal men" wouldn't be tempted by how they dress. While I obviously have no idea how you dress or to which areas you're referring, I would suggest that such a cavalier attitude is unwise. How do you "know" that how you dress is not creating challenges for the men around you? It is difficult to get an accurate and representative impression from the opinions of only a few individuals. That is precisely why a survey like this one is helpful. Even if the results did come from the more conservative end of the spectrum, the sample was large (1600+ respondants) and diverse (across ages and geographical/educational backgrounds). I understand that it is difficult for girls to "get inside" guys' heads and understand why we are tempted like we are, but there are thousands of Christian guys out there who would plead with you to try. I would suggest, BTW, that the results be carefully analyzed in terms of the percentages for each response. Pay most attention to those results with answers that are clearly in one direction or the other (i.e., 75% or more on one side). Any less than that and it the results are not definitive. Kit asked and Dee seconded the question about whether girls will ever "get a chance to do something fairly similar for the guys [about] the things THEY do/say which can communicate false information to a girl?" I think that's an excellent idea. I wouldn't go so far at to say it's sexist not to do so, but such a survey would be very helpful to guys. Though I'm not very familiar with Rebelution (this survey being only my second encounter), one thing that I've seen emphasized is the need for men to stand up and act responsibly themselves. While the purpose of such a survey would be different than this modesty survey, I see great promise in your idea. How about it Alex and Brett? I'd be willing to put some effort behind it myself if that would help (leadership/design/development). Several ladies have commented on here that they disagree with the survey because they dress differently than the survey suggests, and they “know” that “normal men” wouldn’t be tempted by how they dress. While I obviously have no idea how you dress or to which areas you’re referring, I would suggest that such a cavalier attitude is unwise. How do you “know” that how you dress is not creating challenges for the men around you? It is difficult to get an accurate and representative impression from the opinions of only a few individuals. That is precisely why a survey like this one is helpful. Even if the results did come from the more conservative end of the spectrum, the sample was large (1600+ respondants) and diverse (across ages and geographical/educational backgrounds). I understand that it is difficult for girls to “get inside” guys’ heads and understand why we are tempted like we are, but there are thousands of Christian guys out there who would plead with you to try.

I would suggest, BTW, that the results be carefully analyzed in terms of the percentages for each response. Pay most attention to those results with answers that are clearly in one direction or the other (i.e., 75% or more on one side). Any less than that and it the results are not definitive.

Kit asked and Dee seconded the question about whether girls will ever “get a chance to do something fairly similar for the guys [about] the things THEY do/say which can communicate false information to a girl?” I think that’s an excellent idea. I wouldn’t go so far at to say it’s sexist not to do so, but such a survey would be very helpful to guys. Though I’m not very familiar with Rebelution (this survey being only my second encounter), one thing that I’ve seen emphasized is the need for men to stand up and act responsibly themselves. While the purpose of such a survey would be different than this modesty survey, I see great promise in your idea. How about it Alex and Brett? I’d be willing to put some effort behind it myself if that would help (leadership/design/development).

]]> by: Dee http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/#comment-57637 Sun, 25 Mar 2007 01:22:57 +0000 http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/#comment-57637 Here's what Kit said: "So are the girls ever going to get a chance to do something fairly similar for the guys? Obviously with them only a small part would be “modesty” but what about the way they behave towards us? The things THEY do/say which can communicate false information to a girl?" So is anyone going to answer this? I don't find it fair that this survey is only done for girls. That would be sexist. And I do agree with you, Anonymous writer above me, a lot of the comments made were pretty rediculous. Though, I too think that some girls and woman go overboard when dressing, and maybe should tone it down a little. As for me I know, I'm not a stumbling block to normal men, either. Here’s what Kit said:

“So are the girls ever going to get a chance to do something fairly similar for the guys? Obviously with them only a small part would be “modesty” but what about the way they behave towards us? The things THEY do/say which can communicate false information to a girl?”

So is anyone going to answer this? I don’t find it fair that this survey is only done for girls. That would be sexist.

And I do agree with you, Anonymous writer above me, a lot of the comments made were pretty rediculous. Though, I too think that some girls and woman go overboard when dressing, and maybe should tone it down a little. As for me I know, I’m not a stumbling block to normal men, either.

]]> by: Anonymous http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/#comment-48399 Thu, 01 Mar 2007 21:09:05 +0000 http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/#comment-48399 I was disturbed at the amount of 15 and 16 year olds that were so decided in very small issues like how it's flirtatious for a girl to twirl her hair in front of a guy. I can't help but wonder if they have come to those conclusions because they were taught to believe those things were wrong. It's just not natural for men to come by some of those opinions on their own. Some of the comments were just rediculous!!! I'm not attacking the survey or the purpose behind it because I think woman do need a wakeup call in this issue. I'm just commenting on the downright scariness of some of the comments. And because of that, it is hard to really come away with alot of valuable info from the survey. It appeared to me that the majority of the voters were on the extreme end of conservatism or at least those are the only ones that commented. According to most of those men, I would be considered immodest in alot of areas and I really don't think that I am a stumbling block to normal men. At least according to my husband. I was disturbed at the amount of 15 and 16 year olds that were so decided in very small issues like how it’s flirtatious for a girl to twirl her hair in front of a guy. I can’t help but wonder if they have come to those conclusions because they were taught to believe those things were wrong. It’s just not natural for men to come by some of those opinions on their own. Some of the comments were just rediculous!!!
I’m not attacking the survey or the purpose behind it because I think woman do need a wakeup call in this issue. I’m just commenting on the downright scariness of some of the comments. And because of that, it is hard to really come away with alot of valuable info from the survey. It appeared to me that the majority of the voters were on the extreme end of conservatism or at least those are the only ones that commented. According to most of those men, I would be considered immodest in alot of areas and I really don’t think that I am a stumbling block to normal men. At least according to my husband.

]]> by: Cheryl http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/#comment-47499 Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:56:11 +0000 http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/#comment-47499 Girls look at guys too. It's only fair to let guys know that they need to be careful about how they dress as well. Girls look at guys too. It’s only fair to let guys know that they need to be careful about how they dress as well.

]]> by: Zak http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/#comment-47420 Sun, 25 Feb 2007 06:11:56 +0000 http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/#comment-47420 I agree with Kit that a survey from the girls directed towards the guys would be appropriate. Why should all the attention and responsibility be placed on the young ladies? Isn't it first and foremost the responsibility of the guys to control their thoughts? In my opinion - and I mean this all due respect - all this survey proves is that guys can lust after absolutely anything they want to lust after; to see that some of the guys were thinking things through and able to lust after some of the most absurd things is more of a reflection on how depraved men can be, rather than how seductive women can be. Guys, get a grip and start refocusing your life on Christ and not girls. You would like to think you have very little to do with what you lust over, but please, grow up and get your hormones under control. I agree with Kit that a survey from the girls directed towards the guys would be appropriate. Why should all the attention and responsibility be placed on the young ladies? Isn’t it first and foremost the responsibility of the guys to control their thoughts?

In my opinion - and I mean this all due respect - all this survey proves is that guys can lust after absolutely anything they want to lust after; to see that some of the guys were thinking things through and able to lust after some of the most absurd things is more of a reflection on how depraved men can be, rather than how seductive women can be.

Guys, get a grip and start refocusing your life on Christ and not girls. You would like to think you have very little to do with what you lust over, but please, grow up and get your hormones under control.

]]> by: Alex Jordan Harris http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/#comment-46850 Thu, 22 Feb 2007 18:54:51 +0000 http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/#comment-46850 <b>Thomas:</b> I really appreciate your input. Have you seen the <a href="http://www.therebelution.com/modestysurvey" rel="nofollow">Modesty Survey Petition</a>? It states clearly that the survey is intended to be a resource (or, as you say, a guideline) for girls, not a list of rules. I would also encourage you to read some of the text responses to this <a href="http://www.therebelution.com/modestysurvey/browse_212" rel="nofollow">open question</a> about guys' responsibility. As far as the "taking off a pullover" question, I think the text responses make it clear that the guys recognize their responsibility to just not look and that simple things, like turning your back before doing it, should completely eliminate any problems if the girl is being careful. Thomas: I really appreciate your input. Have you seen the Modesty Survey Petition? It states clearly that the survey is intended to be a resource (or, as you say, a guideline) for girls, not a list of rules. I would also encourage you to read some of the text responses to this open question about guys’ responsibility.

As far as the “taking off a pullover” question, I think the text responses make it clear that the guys recognize their responsibility to just not look and that simple things, like turning your back before doing it, should completely eliminate any problems if the girl is being careful.

]]> by: Audrey http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/#comment-46816 Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:00:27 +0000 http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/#comment-46816 Thanks SO much for doing the survey!!!!!!! i agree with Kit. Maybe not so much for guys clothing....but what about their behavior towards girls? Again, thanks SO much!!!!! Thanks SO much for doing the survey!!!!!!! i agree with Kit. Maybe not so much for guys clothing….but what about their behavior towards girls? Again, thanks SO much!!!!!

]]> by: Thomas Millsap http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/#comment-46731 Thu, 22 Feb 2007 07:59:05 +0000 http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/announcing-the-modesty-survey-petition/#comment-46731 Although I do applaud that people were willing to take part in this survey, I still have objections. First, shouldn't this survey be a guideline for girls? Second, the blame for a man's lust is 100% his. I saw Candace Perry's post above mine, and I had to disagree strongly. "It takes TWO to tango; I would say that 70% of the responsibility lies with the guy not to lust, and 30% lies with the girl to do her best to dress modestly, more or less." If a girl has a pure heart about her clothing and isn't intentionally trying to cause a brother to stumble than none of the blame can be put on her. Also, I noticed in the survey that most guys considered a girl taking off a pullover to be a stumbling block, even if the girl had modest clothing under it. That means that girls should have to take off their winter-ware in another room from guys? Or should they refrain from ever removing outer layers in the presence of a guy? Still, it's good that the survey can shed light on what generally causes a man to stumble. Kudos to everyone who took part, but a warning: don't judge a girl who is wearing something that you consider immodest - that's not a Christian attitude in the least. Although I do applaud that people were willing to take part in this survey, I still have objections. First, shouldn’t this survey be a guideline for girls? Second, the blame for a man’s lust is 100% his.

I saw Candace Perry’s post above mine, and I had to disagree strongly.

“It takes TWO to tango; I would say that 70% of the responsibility lies with the guy not to lust, and 30% lies with the girl to do her best to dress modestly, more or less.”

If a girl has a pure heart about her clothing and isn’t intentionally trying to cause a brother to stumble than none of the blame can be put on her.

Also, I noticed in the survey that most guys considered a girl taking off a pullover to be a stumbling block, even if the girl had modest clothing under it. That means that girls should have to take off their winter-ware in another room from guys? Or should they refrain from ever removing outer layers in the presence of a guy?

Still, it’s good that the survey can shed light on what generally causes a man to stumble. Kudos to everyone who took part, but a warning: don’t judge a girl who is wearing something that you consider immodest - that’s not a Christian attitude in the least.

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