Debt: Who You Gonna Serve?
As a follow-up to our last post, Giving Teens Credit, and to the discussion in the comment section, we would like to direct you to an article by best-selling author, Randy Alcorn. It is a summary of the dangers of debt, and the biblical passages related to it. Here’s a sample of what you are in for:
Principles to Live By:
- Nothing is a good deal unless you can afford it.
- God wants an opportunity either to provide your needs or to show you they aren’t needs before you take things into your own hands.
- Just because you can afford something, it doesn’t mean God wants you to get it.
- Increased income isn’t necessarily God saying “Spend more.” More often his real message is “Give more.” (2 Corinthians 8:14;9:10,11)
Go ahead and read the entire article and then come back here and let us know what you think. Some of you have said that you would go into debt for a car or a house and others said they would never do so. Does Mr. Alcorn’s article challenge or affirm your convictions in this area?
August 22nd, 2007 at 1:30 pm
Very interesting…
Nice points.
Makes you think.
Thanks!
I think I might just look into that more…
August 22nd, 2007 at 2:23 pm
Here’s something to think about as well. I’ve read a lot about student loans. It’s crazy if you think about it.
I don’t want to go into debt at all, and I am greatful that my parents are supportive of the idea. They are currently working themselves out of debt and plan to be debt free in 10 years. That’s including house, cards and cars. They are doing the Dave Ramsey program and are having my sister and I go through it too. I recommend the program.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:46 pm
That is an excellent article by Mr. Alcorn. Thank you for posting it! I might have not otherwise read it, and it definatel made me rethink the way I think about how I spend my money.
August 22nd, 2007 at 7:43 pm
I set my foot down firmly: no debt, not even for a house or car. God twice provided a farm for us in the high-priced Washington, DC area. You can read the story at http://www.jehovahjirehfarm.com/story.php I have seen God work too well to believe that debt is inevitable.
August 23rd, 2007 at 7:41 am
An intersting article….that’s for sure. It makes me think; i’m thankful for that.
I like how he backs up many of his points and answers questions by using Scripture alone.
Both my church and school have a debt-free policy. Infact, our school has been raising money for years to begin the stages of building a new facility. It has been a long process, and choosing to go into debt would have sped things up quite a bit, but I know we’ll benefit from staying debt-free in the long run. I’ll never attend classes in the new facility, but waiting on God’s timing and His provision is well worth spending my final year in our current building…no matter how unbelievably crowded our one hallway can be. =)
August 23rd, 2007 at 10:01 am
Personally, I wouldn’t draw the line in my own life at “no debt ever,” but it is something I’ll avoid as much as I possibly can.
For example, in order to cut down the cost of college I’ve chosen to go to community college first and then to another college in the area. There was a couple other schools that offered the same degree programs that I was more interested in attending, but I chose the local ones because I won’t have to live on campus, which cuts down on the price. Living at home while going to school is no guarantee that I won’t have to take out a student loan later down the road, but if I do have to it won’t be as large.
I’ve known parents with kids in middle school who were still paying off their student loans, which is a long time to be in debt and something I’d like to aviod in my own life. Although, I don’t rule out taking out a loan as an option, I definitely see it as a last resort and it’s nothing to rush into.
~Kelsey
August 23rd, 2007 at 11:27 am
Hey, I’m Ciera and this is my first time posting on the Rebelution, even though I’ve been reading it for a few months.
Thanks for posting that article! This has been an issue I have been and am, working through. God has been teaching me a lot lately about how to manage my money. Just like Kelsey, I recently went through the whole student loan issue and decided not to take out a loan. My career of choice is that of wife/mom and if that is God’s plan for me, then I may never have a high-paying job to pay off my loans - that burden would then fall on my husband. Taking out a loan just did not seem like a wise decision to me and my parents.
God has been so faithful to provide money for me to attend a local private university. (But even if He hadn’t provided the money, I would have gone to community college, and He still would be just as faithful and loving!)
I really liked the parts in the article where Mr. Alcorn challenged the reader to question their giving habits. This has been another area God has been teaching me. I HIGHLY recommend John Piper’s book Don’t Waste Your Life, chapter 7(entitled “Living to Prove He is More Precious Than Life”). God used this chapter to revolutionize my view towards money/finances and glorifying Him.
August 23rd, 2007 at 11:40 am
He affirms it all the way!
The verse that says ‘owe no man anything’ is a clear command. If I have to live dirt poor so that I won’t have to live debt, so be it. I borrow money from family members only if I already have it, it’s just not immediately available.
God would not leave me stuck in a rut because I lived the way he told me to. I’ve never heard any failure stories from those who made a choice to go debt free. Not a single one. Some older, ‘wiser’ and more experienced people might say going completely debt free is unattainable, shake their heads with their eyebrows raised slightly…But it’s simply having faith.
August 23rd, 2007 at 2:11 pm
Lucy, I’m not sure that is what Mr. Alcorn is saying. That doesn’t necessarily mean that I disagree with either your stance on this issue or even your interpretation of the article’s stance…it’s just that *I* am not sure from reading the article what exactly his position is. (That’s probably just me and my finicky brain though.) It was a very helpful article…very thought stimulating.
August 23rd, 2007 at 8:21 pm
I wrote a comment on the post about credit cards…I think our computer hiccuped and didn’t submit it. Oh, well. This topic is right up my alley, as my parents are financial elders at our church, and my mom cousels people about righteously handling thier money. My family is completely debt-free. We believe that it is the way that all people (Christians, esp.) should be. We need to be an exapmle to the world in ALL areas of life. By being endebted to others, we are not in control of one of the most important resources out there. We are not able to give in ways that we could if we were completely in control of our money. That’s really what debt is; surrendering partial control (of money) to someone else. Believers should be completely surrendered to God, and something as carnal as dollars and cents shouldn’t be allowed to get in the way of that. I won’t go into debt for material things, and I’m believing that I won’t have to borrow money for college, either. Thanks for letting me share my thoughts.
August 23rd, 2007 at 11:27 pm
Lucy, I’m honestly curious as to where the verse is that says “owe no man anything.” Thanks!
August 24th, 2007 at 6:12 am
I believe the verse to which Lucy is referring is Romans 13:7, which says, “Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.” However, in the preceding verses, Paul says, “Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God…Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God’s ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute [is due]; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.” I could be wrong, but, I don’t believe that Romans 13:7 is a command to be debt free…as Alcorn said, “Borrowing is always involved whenever there is lending. Since lending is sometimes permissible, so is borrowing. Still, normally it is the righteous who are lenders rather than borrowers.”
I don’t believe that going into debt is inherently wrong (I’m talking about going into debt for things like shelter or to start up a business, not to buy a jacuzzi or a Lamborghini Murcielago ); debt can be accompanied by sinful attitudes (not trusting God to supply needs, etc.), but, at this point, I think the action itself is neutral. Please let me know if there’s something I’m missing.
August 24th, 2007 at 8:34 am
Superb! Highly recommended reading. Then put it into practice, which is the hard part. We have gotten some intial direction from Dave Ramsey on how to get out of debt, so this piece by Randy Alcorn fuels the fire of desire to be free once and for all from that enslavement! It’s so easy to think that we “need” a certain item, but I loved the way the author pointed us to a patient dependence upon God as the answer. I have already forwarded this one on to my friends and family. Thanks so much — it’s articles like this that set Rebelution apart from the crowd.
August 24th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Hmm…really makes me think. I mean, in today’s society, you really can’t get a car or a decent house unless you do go into debt….and I see those things as needs. However, I really would not want to do anything that God says is negative and wrong….and debt can border on that!
August 24th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
Anika…
Those were my personal thoughts, not an interpretation of Alcorn’s article. Some of the points he made confirmed my feelings about debt.
Romans 13:5
Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
Rom 13:6
For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God’s ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
Rom 13:7
Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute [is due]; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
===
This doesn’t seem like a very ’spiritual’ passage, if you catch my meaning…it seems literal to me.
Michelle brought up that it didn’t think it was a command to be debt free, but never gave her reasoning behind why she thought that way. I’d like to her it please! (Not joking. I really do.) Maybe I was wrong.
I would also like to ask anybody who has heard of someone who made a choice never to be in debt and failed. Failure doesn’t mean they only had 20 dollars for groceries every week. Failing as in they had to borrow and go in debt. Thanks!
August 24th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
My folks and I don’t say debt is a sin, and the only thing they ever took a loan on in about 20 years was for a house. Other than that, they highly discourage it.
Someone mentioned Dave Ramsey; even though I am under 18, I have been through his course and can really recommend it; His style may step on some people’s comfort zones, but that is usually not a problem and his principles are sound. Go Dave Ramsey
August 25th, 2007 at 1:28 am
Oh thanks Lucy! I myself was a bit confused reading the article as to his opinion (which doesn’t bother me…the verses by themselves are helpful.) Then I read your comment which said “He affirms it all the way”, and assumed that you thought his position was close to yours, and my curiosity overwhelmed me as to why you thought so.
My own opinion is very fuzzy at the moment so I have been talking to my parents about it, and will continue to do so. A theologian I respect very highly (A.W. Pink) believed it wasn’t biblical to be in any debt at all, and often quoted Romans 13 in his letters to people on the subject. Then again, other theologians (who I also respect highly) point out the verses about lending and borrowing in the Old Testament.
And I have heard of people who in their strict adherence to ‘no debt at all’ have violated other Biblical commands in order to remain that way. However, I do not think that all the horror stories in the world about what happens when people refuse to go into debt would be of any help in deciding on this issue. There are much, much worse horror stories to be heard about people who got into trouble because they wished to follow Christ completely, on other, less ‘controversial’ issues.
(By the way, I just want to add that the couple who violated Biblical commands in order to keep what they saw as a Biblical command to remain debt free are not good role models. The rest of the paragraph in which I placed that story refers to other scenarios where people suffer loss (but attempt to keep all other Biblical commands) through remaining debt free.
)
I’m not sure yet. For a long time I have put this issue into the “too hard, leave it till I need it” basket, but I guess I’ll have to address it sometime soon.
August 25th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
Lucy, in the context, Paul was talking about rendering to everyone there dues. I would like to see what it says in the original Greek, but it strikes me as more of an instruction than a command. (I.e. “this is the best course of action,” not, “it’s a sin if you owe anyone anything.”) As I said in my previous post, “Alcorn said, ‘Borrowing is always involved whenever there is lending. Since lending is sometimes permissible, so is borrowing. Still, normally it is the righteous who are lenders rather than borrowers.’” Righteous men would not be allowed to lend money if the very act of borrowing is a sin, because they would be helping others sin, which is clearly a sin itself.
August 26th, 2007 at 7:15 pm
Oh, and, btw, my parents are debt free, and I plan to be, as well. My point is that I don’t think we have the right to label going into debt a “sin.”
August 27th, 2007 at 8:58 am
I think the overall point is that we should be weary of going into debt and the power it gives people over us. But lending and borrowing money is something of this world and it is how you handle it is what makes the difference. It Romans where it says to leave “no debt outstanding,” along as you are making payments or an effort on that debt it will not be left outstanding.
As for mortgages, many of them require a 20% down payment to reduce most fees and to guarantee. This shows the lender or the bank that you are committed to the investment. The article mentions that the payments may stifle the ability to give and put you in dire straights. Again, the article stresses discretion when going for lending.
The most interest part of the article I found was the minimum of 10% given to the church. Again I find it’s not how much you give, but the spirit in which you give. You can give all your money away, but if it do it with selfish motive or a hardened heart it will be in vain. A cup of water given in the spirit of Christ can have a huge impact. Often people with a passion for Christ give much more than 10%. The Old Testament is a good place to start in this regard. I hold tithing as a good principal.
August 27th, 2007 at 6:46 pm
I think the deal with mortgages is that many buy homes above and beyond their means. Houses have gotten bigger and bigger and more and more expensive, then you see both husband and wife working to make the payment. It’s a keep up with the Jones mentality The whole idea is the principle of debt. We should strive to not go into debt.
Debt in and of it self is not a sin. Neither is being a slave. But do we want to be slaves to debt. I for don’t. My parents had no guidance when they were young with this and they fell into debt, now they are working their way out of it and they have taught me that debt is a form of bondage that can prevent you from giving you 100% to the Lord.
August 28th, 2007 at 6:07 am
I hate debt! My family has always been in debt! But oddly, mortgages and student loans seem to be one of God’s way of providing for my family’s needs. He has also provided a car in time of need, and then kept it running for 5 years although it should have only lasted a few months (that car died on the drive home when we got a new car.) But usually we are given fixed rate loans that are within our means. But on that heading Alcorn called it preying off of God’s provision, I’m not sure it always is. Even when my Dad was out of work for about 5 years God always provided the money for the mortgage and the food. We had many in our family (physical and church) telling us to declare bankruptcy, but by God’s grace the money we owed was always paid. We had moved into a tiny house in a bad neighborhood so we wouldn’t be throwing money away on rent, because we felt that it was not good stewardship to live someplace where we were basically burning large sums every month.
I’m not sure what the difference is between following where God leads believing that He can provide for financial debt that following incures and following only when the money is provided in advance or on the spot by God. Debt is a form of slavery, but God called slaves. He comanded that they strive to be free, but He never promised that they would be free from their physical masters if they followed Him. Rather, He said that we were to serve those masters faithfully and joyfully as we serve our Heavenly Master (making the slaves job harder).
August 29th, 2007 at 7:56 am
With more money means giving more? What a great thought! I wish more people would actually do that! Do you know how many tracts you can buy for $50? A lot! More than a thousand!!! (And, good quality ones too! The kind that are clear on the message, and VERY attractive too! www.livingwater.com or www.customtractsource.com )
Do you know that most people give between $10 and $50 per month when they support a missionary? $10 a month isn’t much, but it’s something; less than a dollar a day!
I’m pretty sure where my money is going, and God willing, these are eternal investments!
Praise the Lord to give more away.
September 2nd, 2007 at 12:46 pm
What if you feel led by God to go somewhere, but going there includes going into some amount of debt?