“…incredibly competent Christian men and women, like Galileo, Copernicus, and Francis Bacon, all the way up to Isaac Newton and countless others. The Christian church used to be the chief patron of the arts.”

Galileo who did some amazing work but was forced to recant his theory of heliocentrism and spent the last of his years under house arrest on the orders of the Inquisition. He was correct, he was brilliant and yet he was forced to endure this why? Because the Catholic church didn’t like anything that opposed the literal translation of the Scripture.

And yes the church was indeed a the chief patron of the arts throughout periods of history. Why? Because they had so much money obtained from the poor masses in the name of saving their souls. And why not be a chief patron of the arts? If you control the pieces of art genius men will create you will not only spread your own message but control any dissent/varying ideas. Much like a fascist government.

Please use better examples regarding “competent Christian men and women”. Especially concerning Galileo. Im sure he wouldn’t have appreciated being placed in that category.

I would like to commend you for two things (assuming the three comments on this page are from the same person).

1. For stating a concern of yours humbly even though it had the possibility of not going over well.

2. For receiving the correction from John Moore with such great humility as he was correct in his response.

3. For your last comment. That is a brilliant response and I think the Christian subculture we have created (and you alluded to) is a huge part of this problem that we’re seeing.

The scientists named in this article did not brand their science as “Christian science.” Instead they lived out their faith as they worked in their field with vigor and excellency. I actually agree with something John Piper said on a related issue, which is, if we’re trying to get in a war with the culture as to who can create the best and most appealing stuff, we’ll lose.

We can’t compete on as large a scale as the rest of the world. They give their lives to idols and spend all their time investing into things that won’t last. Our time and devotion should be to God. Therefore, I think, the solution is not to engage in a “culture war” but to work hard at what God has called us to do (in the big and small picture) and make our priority His glory. As people take notice of quality work we direct them to the One that gives us strength, to the one that inspires us and sustains us by His grace. To try and outwit them is missing the point because the point is the upwards call of God, not the sideways war against the culture.

After all, God takes the small and foolish things of the world to shame the wise and strong. Is that because “we” are more “competent”? No! It’s because Christ is our competence even though His message is foolishness to the world!

I have been thinking a lot about this since the last post and I will continue to ponder the subject. Thanks Michelle for your thoughts and humble example.

I think the answer is striving to “do all things to the glory of God”. Competence is important in that it glorifies God (the focus is not on our ability)… At the same time, when you strive for God’s glory, your accomplishments are always pleasing to Him, and that is a big deal!

So act, but act “glorifyingly” (I completely just coined that word, haha)

It is all too true. God help us to be more competent as Christians.

BTW you guys have been a tool in His hand. It was after reading and praying through the ‘do hard things’ post that i decided to run for union officer at my university-a big hard thing that comes with many tiny hard things!!

Yet still, being His disciples inseparably requires our involvement in other people’s lives as we disciple them in the ways of Christ. “Christianizing” the culture is a terrible focus if it is geared toward outward conformity. But growing in Christ most definitely SHOULD lead us to being dynamic, thoroughly-Christian individuals, siblings, moms and dads, teachers, pastors, business men, statesmen, speakers, writers, musicians, artists, chefs, babysitters, students, gardeners, charity workers, missionaries (etc., etc., etc.) who seek to persuade others by our example and word to genuinely believe the powerful Gospel and turn from sin to pursue holiness.

That’s where I think art, music, and aesthetics come into play. Never should we trust these mediums alone to sway minds, but rather utilize them as *a few tools among many* to do some of that persuading…to reach both Christians and non-Christians with truths each audience needs to hear.

After all, God is the author of beauty, art, and communication (the Bible is full of examples of people using music, art, and visual images in God-glorifying ways – as well as evil ways). Using, enjoying, or learning from them is by no means wrong or irrelevant - as I’m sure you already agree - but I’d say that is the very reason WHY we need to evaluate how to approach and use them as Christians. We do not identify with the deceit, vain philosophies, disobedience, violence, scorn, manipulation, and man-centered and self-serving weapons the world uses to persuade us (i.e., “of the flesh”, 2 Cor. 10:1-6), or the messages of falsehood it perpetuates through those means. Instead, we are commanded to destroy ungodly speculations and take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, in every place. I think this certainly can include film, sound, and art.

The important thing to realize is that cultures are made up of people. The state of their hearts and minds determines the state of the culture – whether that be a moral society, an apathetic society, or an evil society in which the church is pure enough to be persecuted. Regardless of the state of society, our job is always to live holy lives of evangelistic, God-glorifying service – and that means endeavoring to influence others to do the same, with every resource God provides. That is what advancing the kingdom of God really is.

All that to say, David….you’re absolutely right about what our primary focus should be.

Oh yeah, what is the website thing on comments. I just put my second favorite.This one being my first favorite.