rebelling against low expectations

Should Christians fund businesses that support immorality?

By Discussion Questions
March 17, 2015
351 comments
S

CLARE WRITES: Recently many large companies (e.g. Walmart, Target, JC Penny, Starbucks) have promoted immorality such as abortion and homosexuality.

The primary forms of promotion are either commercials featuring people living such lifestyles or donating portions of the company’s capital to such organizations.

Most Christians would never directly fund an abortion, but what about funding a business who in turn funds an abortion?

Some sub-questions are:

  • What about businesses who fund immorality indirectly? (e.g. Company donates to Susan G. Komen, who in turn donates to Planned Parenthood).
  • What about businesses who do not fund immorality but support the ideology? (e.g. Company features lesbians in their commercials but does not fund lesbian organizations).
  • What about a charity who needs notebooks and the cheapest notebooks are sold by such a company?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

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Discussion Questions

are submitted by real rebelutionaries who are looking for godly answers to tough questions and lively conversation with other young adults. You can join the conversation by commenting below. If you'd like to submit your own discussion question, email us at [email protected].

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  • Wow, good question! I spent a while looking for Bible verses on this topic, but things were different back then – they didn’t really have stores and advertising the same way we do today (but if anyone can think of verses/passages that I didn’t…)

    One thing I will say, is that Christians will always be the minority (Matthew 7:13-14). So, is it feasible to only support Christian companies? If I only ate at Christian restaurants, I’d probably die of malnutrition, lol! Chickfila for breakfast, Chickfila for lunch, Chickfila for dinner(don’t get me wrong I love Chickfila, but…).

    Basically what I’m saying is I don’t WANT to support companies that support immorality, but sometimes (it seems like) I don’t have a choice….what do y’all think? Do you know of any Christian alternatives to big companies?

    Reply

  • This is a great question Clare! Everything in this world is corrupt and Satan has a tight grip around modern organizations. (and on society) I think this goes back to the DQ “Where do we draw the line with entertainment”. Sin is just unavoidable, that doesn’t mean give in, it just means that sin is present everywhere we go. Now, as far as I know, there is definitely sin in Walmart, Target, Starbucks etc. However, those organizations don’t embody sin itself. If you walked into Walmart with the intention of supporting a pro-choice business, then you would be the one embodying sin. Although, it certainly isn’t a sin to go buy socks at Walmart or to buy a coffee from Starbucks. All I’m saying is that if you have the choice between a smaller Christian company or a larger secular one, go with the smaller Christian one. If you want to buy a book, buy it off of christianbook.com instead of Amazon. If you want to eat at a restaurant, go to Chickfila instead of McDonalds. If you want to get art supplies, go to Hobby Lobby instead of Michel’s.
    I hope my answer was helpful.

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  • I’m gonna have to put some thought into this one… Great question Clare! I might be back later, but i really look forward to reading other replies 🙂

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    • I also will have to think some more before commenting. (Despite the fact that my tendency is to forget about it, then come back to find dozens of comments that have already answered the question)

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  • Very thought provoking! Could you give links to the sources where it tells which companies support what? I’d like to see it for myself before I decide.

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  • I’ve thought of the same thing myself. I do not appreciate when companies support immoral causes, but if we tried to avoid everything that supports an immoral cause, we would have to stop going to a lot of places and using so many products it’s ridiculous. Did you know that a $1 bill has the illuminati symbol on it. So should we stop using $1 bills? I also heard of a bakery who wouldn’t sell a cake to a couple for a gay wedding. I personally believe that the bakery should’ve sold the cake to the gay couple. They came to buy a cake. I think it’s morally wrong to refuse them their right to buy. The staff at the bakery could’ve witnessed to the couple, but, in a spirit of servanthood and love, sold them the cake anyway. We are to love all people, sinners included! Jesus had dinner with Gentiles! On a subject like this, you have to draw the line somewhere. I believe that line is different for everyone. We are in this world, but not of it. We WILL see and interact with sin, temptation, and wickedness in this life, but whether we partake of it or not IS up to us.

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    • I think we can have a friendly discussion about the bakery situation, but if you don’t want to discuss this, let me know; I just love discussing my own and others’ opinions and refining what I believe, while gaining an understanding of where others come from. Do you want to discuss your ideas on the cake for the gay couple? If you don’t, I totally understand…

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        • Okay 🙂
          My thinking is, like I just told @Ethan__H:disqus, it’s like if I gave money to a friend who I know uses drugs. I know it’ll be used wrong, if you know what I mean. I don’t think Jesus would have offered to make a cake for a gay wedding, although he would not have shunned anyone who was gay. I think that’s the difference – accepting the person in spite of their sin, or helping them in their sin. For example – I would be a friend to a gay person, but I wouldn’t attend her wedding if she invited me.
          And as to the moral rightness or wrongness of refusing their purchase – it’s still a person baking the cake. It’s still them, even if it’s through a corporation. I think that’s similar to Hobby Lobby’s problem with providing health insurance (including abortaficients) to their employees.
          So… what are your thoughts?

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          • What’s so funny? I try to welcome someone, and all they say is “ha, ha”.
            You must have stolen the picture from mimeforJesus!

          • Haha @Ethan__H:disqus that happened to me too I got an email saying I got a response from “GodsThespian” and I was like huh???????? THEN I saw your profile picture and was like ohhhhhhhhhhhh ok. 😉

            REALLY STUPID QUESTION: what’s a thespian? (I guess I could just look it up in the dictionary…)

          • Yup I looked it up too, but thanks! =)

            So @mimeforjesus:disqus (yes I started typing @mimeforjesus lol) why did you change your username?

          • “Thespian” is an old Greek name for an actor/actress 🙂
            So if I changed my profile picture, would you be really messed up? Cause I just might…

          • There’s something that happens at nine o clock at night (at least where I am). It seems like every night at that time, thousands of Rebelutionaries go, “how ’bout I comment some on the Reb????” lol

          • Haha, i was kinda confused for a while, GodsThespian! I like the new username though 🙂

          • Yes I totally agree! Through reading everyone’s comments, I’ve been given a sort-of, new perspective. I retract my statement about baking the cake for a gay couple. The more I think about it, the more I realize that, If it would’ve been me, I probably wouldn’t have sold the cake to them. So yeah. Change of mind on my part. 🙂

          • Okay, great! 🙂
            Just curious, what political party/ideas do you think you agree with most? I always am interested in how peoples’ politics and other life interact!

          • Ummm. Lol idk. I feel that, right now, the (U.S.) government has way too much power in too many different areas of America and it’s economy. They are stepping out of their original boundaries of “Protecting” the people and trying to “Provide” for the people (health care, OSHA, EPA, etc.). Also, getting involved in so much war in other countries is not good. I’m not saying that the government is dumb and unnecessary by any means! They are the God-given authorities of our country, but It’s God’s roll to provide. I believe that it’s absolutely necessary to involve God in governmental aspects. The government, more and more, is trying to take the place of God (whether they admit it or not). I definitely agree with religious freedom!! We in America are extremely blessed to have this freedom, and must NOT take it for granted! That’s some of my thoughts on the government and politics. Don’t know if it was anything like what you were looking for. 🙂

          • Yep, that’s what I was looking for 🙂
            Like I said, I love seeing how politics and “normal life” interact in people’s ideas!

          • Yeah, I think I changed it the same evening you noticed it.
            And now I’m answering six days later…

      • I don’t know. If I were the baker, I wouldn’t want them to tell everyone, “hey! Fundamental Christian Ethan the baker over there will make cakes for your hotmosexual wedding!” Or something of the like. You know? But I definantly don’t think it it right to fine someone if they don’t want to.

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        • Yeah that’s true. But I think the gays would make a bigger fuss about the cake not being sold to them. Even if it would draw more gays to the store by selling to them for their wedding, it would give the bakery more chances to witness to them. The gay couple wouldn’t have had to let the bakery know that the cake was for their wedding.

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        • And yeah, I shouldn’t say what the bakery did was wrong. They could’ve refused to sell to the cake in a spirit of love, too, and still witnessed to the couple.

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          • This has happened a lot, so I’m not sure which particular instance you’re referring to. Out of curiosity, do you know that they didn’t refuse in a spirit of love? Or are you saying that they might have/did? Sorry, I’m just a bit confused. =)

          • Ya Im just saying that it’s possible that they refused the sale out of a spirit of love. I don’t know if they did or not.

        • Right. I think that on a smaller scale, it’s like giving money to someone I know regularly uses drugs. You know that it’ll end up being used wrong, you know what I’m saying?
          But if I didn’t know it was a gay wedding, I could bake that cake with a clear conscience, and if I found out later that it was gay, I wouldn’t feel guilty.

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  • like Moriah said very thought provoking! I’m not sure where I stand on this…. will have to give it a bit of thought! Can’t wait to see what more people think!

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  • Ask yourself if what you’re buying will give them substantial funding, or if what you’re buying is even important enough to consider this. Today’s culture encourages the immoralities shown above, and so many people don’t think twice on matters like this. This can be quite the personal issue, so before you research Christian super marts, make sure you know what you are doing. Can you afford the possibly extra gas money to drive there? Can you afford to shop anywhere else than the store that you shop at now? If the answer to either question is no, then the answer is clear. However, if you do have the financial capability to comfortably shop at a new source, and you have made your decision, then by all means, do so. I will warn you, though, that not all places are as bold as Chic-Fil-A, and finding a new store may be very difficult.

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    • Ooh, good answers…
      Financial ability is a major factor; I hadn’t thought of that, but it’s true. Like, really true…

      Reply

  • That’s a tough question, but this shouldn’t really be that surprising to any of us, especially since these are mega stores. They try to appeal to everyone, but as Abraham Lincoln once said, “You can fool all of the people some of the time, and you can some of the people all the time, but you can’t fool all the people all the time.” I also thought of the story of Jesus clearing the temple in John 2. To be honest, I don’t know why that story came to me while thinking about this. I guess because the Temple was busy due to it being sacred, and the religious leaders turned it to a business, which to Jesus was immoral. Can anyone else try to interpret this another way?

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  • When asked, Jesus commands us to pay taxes, even to an ungodly, evil empire as the Romans. Any thoughts on how this applies to the situation? It may (I’m kinda thinking out loud, or in writing, here, so I’m interested in other’s opinions) just be saying that we are to obey our government, but if it’s immoral to give money to a government/corporation that supports evil, it would have been immoral to pay taxes to the Romans.

    Thoughts, anyone?

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    • Yeah, but taxes are mandatory. We pay them, and The Righous One will judge them on how they use it.
      We are not required to shop at target. So I don’t really know.

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      • Agreed. There is no rule forcing us to shop at Home Depot and Target. I was just wondering if there was maybe a deeper idea at work here than simply, “Pay your taxes.” Thanks for the reply.

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  • Hmm…this comment reminds me of another thread a few weeks ago. The passage that came to mind when I thought about this issue was 1 Corinthians 8, where Paul talks about meat offered to idols. Do you guys think it applies here?

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    • Very good passage! Sounds like Paul is saying, for those of you who are strong in the knowledge of God, eating the meat (or buying from a business?) that supports immoral practices is completely fine. But also those who stand strong in that knowledge need to be careful that, by doing certain things (like eating the meat), they do not cause the weaker ones to stumble. Thanks for bringing that passage up!

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      • That’s pretty much exactly what I was thinking. I do have a concern with that interpretation, though: the reason Paul states is because “an idol has no real existence,” but, when applied to social issues, they really do exist. I’m not disagreeing with you; this is just some food for thought.

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        • Even though idols don’t exist, people did sin by worshipping them, so essentially if you go through the “food chain” (no pun intended) buying the meat did support sinful practices (like purchasing items today may fund abortion, etc.). Thoughts, anyone? 🙂

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    • To further Seth’s point a little, 1Co 10:25-29 addresses a slightly different situation, with a very similar moral dilemma. In short, you do whatever you can to further the Gospel. Sometimes your presentation would be hindered or distracted from by your abstinence; sometimes your abstinence helps paints picture of the life-changing power of the Gospel.

      What do you think? In our American culture, do you think people are more likely to be impressed or distracted with boycotting?

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      • Yes good point David! And Karl, yes I see what you’re saying. I kind of interpreted it as this: firm believers know that eating the meet is not actually for the cause of idols, but some people, when they eat the meat (or buy a product) think that, by doing so, they are directly supporting that immoral cause, when they’re really not. You do have a very valid point, though!

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        • I would like to add something, but I want to say that I by no means think this is what you meant, just that it can be used this way. Anyway, it seems to me that we need to be careful in using that passage. It can be easy to say that people of different opinions simply have weaker faith, you know?

          And @disqus_c45gasalO1:disqus I see your point. My thoughts are that the purpose of boycotts isn’t (or shouldn’t be) to impress people. It’s to change the policy of a business.

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  • Ouch. This question hit me hard.

    Recently I’ve been thinking about applying for a job at Justice, a young girl clothing store at my mall. The manager says she hires homeschooled teen girls because their schedules are flexible. Ooh, yay! I’m homeschooled teen girl that needs a job! However, Justice has some clothes that are a bit questionable for 7 to 12 year olds (or ANY girl, for that matter). What do I do? Apply for a job that sells clothes that strictly go against my standard for modesty?

    I think that almost any business that is not run by a Christian will support and praise things that go against our convictions. Maybe we should try and supplement businesses we know are non-Christian operated with those that are. A couple Christian businesses I know are Chic-fil-a and Hobby Lobby.

    I’ve never really considered what we’re actually funding when we shop for businesses. I’m kinda not the best person to answer this, so anyone correct me if I’m wrong.

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    • Hi Brooklyn! I was thinking that if you wanted to work at another clothing store, Forever 21 is Christian. One time I went shopping with my aunt there, and at the bottom of the bag was John 3:16. Justa thought.

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        • I don’t know what your personal modesty standards are, but if you’re looking to work somewhere that doesn’t sell clothing you think is inappropriate, Forever 21 might not be the place for you. Not looking to start a disagreement or anything, just another thought. 🙂

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          • Definitely. Like, an XS T-shirt would be fine on an eight-year-old, but on a medium-sized teen like me… let’s not go there!! Yes, some things really do depend on the person.

          • If I were you, I would focus MORE on what they sell than other things like what they stand for. I hesitate to say this because the causes someone supports are definitely important and do say something about the choices they might make in the future. However, there’s likely going to be something “wrong” with every store– from what they promote to the music they play.
            Probably the most obvious thing a store is usually known for is the merchandise they sell. The reason people usually buy from a store is not to support this cause or that cause, but to buy certain items they know will be available at the store.
            So, if I were in your shoes I would look first for a place that, for the most part, sells decent clothes that you might actually wear. There are many other things to consider, and just because a store has okay products doesn’t necessarily mean you would want to work there. But that would be my 1st priority.
            Wow, this turned long. Kudos for reading my humble opinion. 🙂

    • Well, I think that if you have alternative job possibilities that you are more comfortable with, you should definitely give those a shot. Otherwise…if we only worked at places that totally supported Christian values, most of us would be out of a job. 🙂 If you end up working there, just give it your best and be a light to your coworkers and customers. Those are my thoughts, anyway. 🙂

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  • I’m not sure what the right answer to this question, but here are my thoughts on the issue. I am thinking as I write, so bear with me. Feel free to argue my thoughts if you feel they are not biblical.
    I think our ultimate goal as followers of Christ is to be the light and salt of the earth leading people to Christ and letting them decide for themselves if they will accept His grace. In order to be the salt and light you must be different from the world, but at the same time you must be a part of the world. If you isolate yourself from the world and it’s ways, you will not be able to reach the people who need Jesus the most. I realize after writing this that I haven’t really answered the question, but I’m posting it anyways in the hopes that it can help lead us to the answer.

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    • I think as I write a lot too. 🙂 I really agree that we shouldn’t be isolating ourselves from the world. However, I don’t think that sometimes (or frequently) choosing to support a Christian establishment (or one with similar values) rather than a business that supports things we disagree with counts as isolating ourselves.
      Plus, it’s not like (for example) Chick-fil-A only has Christian customers. You could minister and witness to people there, just as you might have at McDonald’s or whatever.
      Thanks for sharing! 🙂 Any thoughts?

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      • I agree with you for the most part. There is just something that I can’t quite put words to that is botherng me about this question. I think it is an excellent idea to support Christian businesses over non-Christian businesses, but I guess I worry about taking this to the extreme. I view Christianity as more than just a list of do’s and don’ts and more than simply a religion. It is a relationship with our creator, God, and his Son, our savior, Jesus. I think doing what you are suggesting is great, so long as it doesn’t become the focus of your life and you don’t allow it to supersede our relationship with Christ.

        I think what bothers me about this is it has the potential to follow the path of the Pharisees, where we could get so focused on following rules and checklists of our own creation that we forget about what really matters. Does it say anywhere in the bible that you should not conduct business from non-Christians? Looking at Jesus’ life and what I can remember without re-reading the gospels Jesus did many things that went against what the religious leaders thought was ‘right.’

        I think our goal should be to love the sinner and hate the sin. If we focus on eradicating sins but not on loving the sinner, we are just chopping at the branches instead of the root. For every one root there are a thousand branches.

        These are incomplete thoughts that if I had time I’d edit, condense and express more clearly, but they at least serve the purpose of continuing the discussion.

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        • I agree with everything you said! Christianity is absolutely more than a set of rules–like you said, it’s about the relationship.

          I would say that I do not in any way think there is anything inherently wrong with shopping at non-Christian stores. My family consistently shops at Walmart and Sam’s Club for example, because that’s what we can afford.

          I think, personally, it comes down to being a good steward of the resources God has given us. Let’s say that I am choosing between two stores. Their products are the same, their prices are the same, their physical distance from you and whatever else is the same, but one supports abortion clinics and the other gives funds to pro-life groups. (I know things aren’t so cut and dry in real life.) Now, I don’t believe there’s any rule that says you can’t shop at the first store. I do think, however, that it becomes a question of the Christ-like thing to do. Given the choice, where are we going to put the funds He has given us?

          For me, this question is about supporting businesses that support our values. It’s not about snubbing non-Christian businesses just because they aren’t Christian. That would not be Christ-like at all.

          I hope that makes some sense, and thank you for discussing this with me!

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  • Well, this is certainly difficult to discuss. For one thing, there may be connections with businesses to immoral companies that you may never even hear about. In my opinion, it’s stupid that companies would put gays and lesbians in their ads and then alienate an entire business demographic (i.e. Christians and traditional families). It’s just doesn’t make business sense. For us, every person is entitled to their own opinion, so each person must make the decision to shop and buy from that company or not. It’s sometimes rather difficult for us to boycott an entire chain of stores, usually because we cave for the sake of convenience. I’m just gonna say that each person has to decide whether or not they want to shop and buy from a store that funds abortion companies.

    Hope this helps.

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  • If you were to decided to stop supporting things that indirectly fund abortion and the like, then you would have to move out of the U.S. The government funds abortion with tax dollars, and funds the teaching of evolution in school with it as well. If you’re going to say that you refuse to do something like this, then you better think about planting a farm in the middle of nowhere. If you did that though, you wouldn’t really bring glory to Christ anyway though.

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  • So, this is a really tough DQ. I’ve been mulling this over, and here’s what i personally think. Completely boycotting all businesses that didn’t meet with God’s standards would be next to impossible. BUT! It is our job to know where our money goes, and to be smart about it. If God has convicted you personally to avoid certain businesses, then avoid them. Support places like Chick-fil-a, Hobby Lobby, and other Christian businesses when you can. But, i don’t believe that it’s a sin to go buy stuff at Walmart, unless God has said otherwise.

    #whatwouldwedowithoutchick-fil-a

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    • Yes! Personal conviction is definitely a factor in this… I’ve never felt guilty for being a Targert customer, but others might, and that’s their conviction. I totally respect that, and I’m not going to question it (unless, of course, they have a totally weird random conviction that’s way unbiblical… then I’ll speak up! Lol). 🙂

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  • The community where I went to college had a Walmart, a HyVee (grocery store, for those in other regions), a Sears, a JC Penny, a Payless, an Aldi, several fast food restaurants and chain pizza places, a book store (besides the two college book stores), two independent coffee shops, a handful of bars and restaurants, several local shops, a hardware store that was also a Halmark, a farm supply store, and a couple of lesser-known clothing stores. If your baby needed diapers, there was only one place in the city to buy them. If your dog needed food, you had four choices, but there were only two choices if you owned a cat, and HyVee was significantly more expensive than Walmart. Most school and office supplies could only be purchased at Walmart, unless you wanted to pay three times as much on campus. That town was the largest city in a 90-mile radius.

    The extremes you would have to go through, especially in a community with such limited choices, to boycott an entire chain would potentially cause you to waste the resources God has given you. Between gas, food for travel, and the added expenses of seeking out other businesses and possibly shopping in a community with a higher standard of living than your own, you would probably spend hundreds or even thousands more in a year than if you remain at home and do what everyone else in your community does when you need something.

    We cannot possibly know what every company does, or what our clients do, and picking and choosing can therefore quickly become hypocritical. I don’t go to Starbucks, but its not because I think they are somehow worse than the other companies where I get coffee. It’s because they have made it very clear they don’t want my business because of what I believe, and I have chosen to oblige them. It is also because if I do go to a Starbucks, since that incident was so highly publicized and there are Christians with such strong opinions of it, I can actually cause another believer to pass judgement on me (and therefore sin) if I should be seen walking in or out by someone who knows me. It could be that I did not purchase anything and just met someone there for a meeting, which I would do if necessary. In fact, I might have just parked my car there for lack of available parking at a neighboring business, but anyone who sees me from a distance has no idea why I was there or what I did. Paul talked about something very similar in 1 Corinthians 8.

    I do not refuse to serve clients based on what they believe, but what I believe is very well known. I also have to ask what my clients believe because I teach music lessons. Some music is not ok with people from certain religious backgrounds. Some music is not ok with me. Both teacher and student sometimes have to make adjustments if the next piece in the book violates either of our beliefs, so we have to talk about that in advance. If I refuse to do business with people based on that, though, the offense I cause could mean they never consider a working relationship with another Christian again. It could become a salvation issue because it hardens their hearts, and I don’t want to be responsible for that. I don’t judge people who choose not to serve clients whose beliefs on certain issues differ from their own. Bakeries have been a big deal in the press lately in that regard. If I were to judge them for that, I wouldn’t be any different than someone who judged me if they thought I had patronized Starbucks.

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  • I was thinking some more, and it kinda struck me all of a sudden. What a business does with it’s funds is completely up to them. When you buy a product from a business that supports abortion, you are not supporting abortion. You are merely buying a product. I think the wrong choice in that instance falls upon the business. I don’t know. That thought just came into my mind and I thought I’d share it. Any other thoughts on that?

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    • At the moment I don’t have much time to comment, but I would like to discuss this with you soon! 🙂

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    • I kinda agree/disagree. 🙂 I would agree that it is usually the business more than us that is making the wrong choice in supporting ________, especially if we are unaware. However, we have a choice too. If we are (1) aware of what they support (that we disagree with), (2) have other options available, and (3) have the financial ability to make a different choice, but we still choose to shop at said business, we are making a conscious choice to support them and, therefore, what they support.
      Anyway, that’s what’s coming out of my jumbled brain. 🙂 Thoughts?

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      • Yes I would definitely agree that it would be best to shop somewhere else if it is feasible. But if we’re not aware of a certain business supporting, say, abortion, does that make it “less bad” to buy things there? The business still supports abortion. Just another thought that popped into my mind. 🙂

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        • True. I’m not saying that our knowledge (or lack of) of what the business supports makes it more or less wrong. But there’s a difference for us between purposefully doing something wrong and accidentally doing so, you know?

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          • “And a servant who knows what the master wants, but isn’t prepared and doesn’t carry out those instructions, will be severely punished. But someone who does not know, and then does something wrong, will be punished only lightly.” – Luke 12:47-48a (NLT)

            I’m not saying that it’s wrong to buy from a buisness that supports abortion (see my comment above for my take) but I think this applies to the situation. Regardless of the issue under discussion, our knowledge of right and wrong does not change the action, but it does change the consequence.

            Again, all thoughts on this are appreciated. 🙂

          • Great reference! And…what you said is what you understood I said…right?? Because what you said is totally what I meant, just explained a thousand times better. 😉
            Wow. Please excuse my words for being all tangled up today. XD

          • Yes! xD I just thought I’d supply that verse to go along with your (awesome) comment.

          • Yes you’re absolutely right. I thought more about it after I posted it. Maybe I should think things out before I post them. Lol!

          • Yes. There is a HUGE difference in accidentally killing someone in a car wreck, and murder. Right?

          • Yes! In the Old Testament intentional and unintentional murder were punished very differently (check out Deuteronomy and Numbers for more on that!). The same applies today. 🙂

        • I think it makes us innocent, but regardless of where the guilt lies, our money is still supporting these things. That’s why it’s so important to know where the money you pay is going.
          Has anyone heard of Ben&Jerry’s ice cream? Besides the fact it’s delicious, I read the back of the tub and discovered that they used fairtrade sugar and brownies from a bakery that provided training and employment for homeless youths. That’s the kind of company I want to support!

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          • Yes I’m totally with you! Although, the money is technically not ours. It’s God’s. And we obviously wouldn’t say that God supports abortion. Should we as Christians even be related to or labeled with “our money” anyway? Just another thought to mull over.

    • Can I disagree in a friendly way? That is the case sometimes, but there are people who shop at store X just to SUPPORT said immorality. And that IS wrong. The fact of the matter is, If we shop at the store X, our money IS still supporting abortion, but that doesn’t mean we support abortion personally. It’s sad… the whole thing is sad, but it’s the truth.

      *please don’t get me wrong, I hate abortion, and i think it’s horrible*

      Any other thoughts, anyone?

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      • I agree with the friendly disagreement! If we buy products from a shop that gives money for abortion, we are giving money for abortion. I definitely don’t want to support these things.

        Companies should definitely have the right to use their resources in support of their morals though. For example, a Christian couple refused to hold a gay wedding at their facilities and were fined and told they must always comply. A florist and a baker also ran into trouble when they refused to supply flowers and a wedding cake for homosexual weddings.
        We haven’t got the legislation in Australia yet, but once these “couples” are recognized as married, it won’t be long.

        And thank you, Clare, for telling us that these companies support abortion and homosexuality! I believe it’s important to know.

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        • Yeah, if I would put myself in the baker’s and florist’s shoes, I probably wouldn’t supply the cake and the flowers for the wedding, now that I think about it in light of what more fellow believers think. Thanks for shedding new light on this subject!

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    • Seth, I think the jist of what you’re saying is true: everyone, whether a buisness, government, or person, is individually responsible for the rescources God has given them. Like Matthew 25:14-30 (the parable of the talents) says, we are not held responsible for each others’ choices on how they spend money. I don’t think I’m sinning by buying flour from Walmart, because I’m simply providing in the way I know best for my family (a biblical principle). Yet if Walmart in turn donates my money to Planned Parenthood, that’s Walmart’s problem, not mine. Just like I can’t control what my brother does with money I give him for a birthday present, I’m not held responsible for what Walmart does with my flour money. Yet, if I had a choice, I would DEFINITELY buy flour from a Christian supermarket, just because I’ll be satisfied that my money is supporting God’s work… but there aren’t any around here. So, I’ll have to stick to Walmart for now. I love what Christy said, btw, about how not choosing better options when they’re available is wrong (James 4:17).

      Any thoughts? 🙂

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      • I agree! Especially with that last bit, lol. XD Seriously though, well said. I think, surprisingly, there’s a fine line between thinking there’s nothing wrong with supporting companies who promote immorality, and thinking it’s a sin. It’s a difficult balancing act, but I think you put it well. 🙂

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    • Yep. But If there is a choice, I would not want to support a company like that. For example, I would rather by Girl Scout cookies than Gay Scout cookies. ( don’t worry, I just made that up ). Does that make sense?
      God will judge them according to their deeds.

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      • Yes I agree. I would do the same, but the thing is, a lot of companies don’t make it widely known that they support immorality. AT&T, Apple, Nike, Barns and Noble, Best Buy, and a myriad of other well-known companies support the gay movement. So where does one draw the line?

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  • I experienced something like this. I used to be in Boy Scouts until they started allowing homosexuals to join. My parents made the choice for me not only to protect me, but also because they didn’t believe it was God honoring.

    I guess that might answer the question about direct immorality.

    As for the indirect immorality, all I can say is: Pray. Depending on your particular situation, I don’t think anyone can give a perfect answer for you. All except for God of course!

    I hope I helped enough! This is my first comment ever, so I hope I did good.

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    • Great answer! I agree. It somewhat depends on the situation, and you must use wisdom and discretion. And like you said, PRAY!

      Welcome to the Rebelution!
      Great first comment!

      Reply

    • Carson, you did very well, because any comment that is written with the intent of furthering the discussion is a great comment. So, please don’t be offended or hurt by what I am going to write here. No harm or ill-feelings are meant to be conveyed with my response. I am just trying to add to the discussion and make everyone think deeper. Whether I am right or not is not for me to decide and my goal is not to prove anyone wrong or right.

      I saw this response two days ago and was expecting to see some people calling into question the wisdom behind leaving an organization because they allow sinners (homosexuals) to join. Since no one has done this, I will.

      I feeling very strongly that barring homosexuals from participating in Boy Scouts is NOT God honoring nor Christ-like. The well-known and often quoted verse John 3:16, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life,” is immediately followed by this equally important, but often forgotten verse, 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.” If Jesus was not sent to condemn, I think it is clear that we are not sent to condemn either.

      Instead of leaving an organization due to their inclusion of people guilty of participating in a taboo sin like homosexuality or abortion, I think we, as Christians, should do what our name implies and follow Jesus example. Jesus did not stay away from the “sinners” deemed to dirty to touch by the religious leaders (Pharisees) of his day. Instead he embraced them. He touched and healed lepers, ate dinner at tax collectors houses, talked with Samaritan women, even one who was divorced 5 times (John 4, specifically 4:15-17), and allowed his feet to be washed by a prostitute. Of the prostitute who washed His feet, he said “because you believed, you are saved from your sins. Go in peace” (Matt 7:50). In the case of the women at the well, ”Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, ‘He told me everything I ever did.’ 40 So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. 41 And because of his words many more became believers. 42 They said to the woman, ‘We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world’” (John 4:39-42).

      Jesus’ interactions with sinners clearly demonstrates how we should approach sin: “Love the sinner and hate the sin.” This does not mean we must accept another person’s sins in order to love them. It means we are to separate a person’s sins from who they are, a child of God that is deeply loved despite their sins, just like we, believers are (See this link for good article on this idea: http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/practical-faith/whats-wrong-love-sinner-hate-sin). We are not to avoid, ostracize or shame others participating in sin, but to witness to them the grace of Christ and show them a path that leads them away from the shackles of their sins towards Jesus and eternal salvation.

      Full disclosure, I am 23 years old; however, I discovered “Do Hard Things” as a teen and still relate to everything that is discussed in this blog.

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      • Rob, thank you so much for this comment! In our sin, He died for us. We are to do nothing less than to show that love to others. At my school, we have the Gay Strait alliance and one of my friends is bisexual. When she told me about it, she asked me “Will you still be friends with me? I understand if you don’t want to.” I reassured her that nothing she would do would make me love her any less. Thanks again. This made my day(:

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        • That’s so great that you are their for your friend no matter what. I really like the following quote by Brannan Manning “The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians: who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.” Showing others love no matter what is so important if we want others to be willing to experience God’s grace.

          I am completely against the practice of homosexuality but completely for those who practice it.

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          • Yes, hate the sin, but love the sinner.

            However, you ARE to say you are against the sin. Not saying that you are against it merely to avoid offending those practicing it is, in itself, SIN.

        • Yes, that is fine, but be careful that it is NOT a close friendship. The Bible is CLEAR not to be unequally yoked with the unbeliever. That doesn’t just include marriage, but friendships and business partnerships as well.

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          • Hello, there! Thank you for commenting! She’s a Christian and we are in close friendship. If we weren’t close, she wouldn’t trust me. She’s told me some deep things like, she wants turn from bisexuality, and has decided to marry a man, but still struggles with attraction to girls. She recognizes that it is a sin, and struggles with it, just like you and I struggle with our own sins (lying, cheating, pride etc.).

      • I certainly do not want to argue. So all I shall say is that in Romans 1:26-27 (and more) talks about how people turned away from their natural desires and relations with the opposite gender and became lustful toward their own gender. In this passage it only refers to men, but we all know the same goes for women.

        You of course are allowed to believe what you may, but what I believe is that God very clearly intended for man and woman to desire each other and to act that way, not man+man or woman+woman. That is my belief.

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        • I don’t want to go down the rabbit hole of hate and slander that internet comments on emotional subjects such as homosexuality tend to follow, but I do want to respectfully make sure I understand your beliefs on this issue and that you understand my beliefs.

          Based on what you have written, I think you believe that homosexuality is a sin that directly opposes the way God designed human sexuality, which is to be exclusively between a man and a woman. Because homosexuality is a sin and mentioned throughout the old and new testament often with strict degrees of punishment (death), you believe that God views the practice of homosexuality as a serious sin that cannot be tolerated at all by Christians. In an effort to stay true to this belief you think it is wrong (and maybe a sin?) for Christians to be associated with organizations such as the Boy Scouts that openly allow gays to participate.

          Please correct me if your beliefs differ from what I have written. I too believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin and goes in direct opposition to God’s will for human sexuality and attraction. I do not in any condone homosexuality.

          However, I also believe that Jesus’ blood that he bled on the cross fulfilled the old covenant of old testament that required animal sacrifices severe punishments for sins. John 3:17 says that Jesus did not come to condemn the world, but to save it. Based on everything I have ever read, heard or seen I CANNOT believe that Jesus died for our sins, so that we can take HIS infinite grace for ourselves and then treat others as if His grace for them is conditional. I find that hypocritical and sinful.

          Maybe this is a poor metaphor, but would you decide God doesn’t want you to go to church because it welcomes people who are committing sins? As a result of the fall of Adam and Eve we all are guilty of sinning on a daily basis.

          I guess I will end this comment with this question. How does staying away from gays help you as a Christian and more importantly how does it help the people that you feel are so far away from God that you cannot be in the same organization as them? As Christians, we are by definition already saved. Why do we need to act like other people’s sins can ruin our salvation? Jesus touched untouchable, lepers and forgave the people who joyfully crucified Him. When He rose from the dead he gave us the Holy Spirit to guide us and carry on His work in this world. We are to follow His lead and love and minister to EVERYONE regardless of their sins.

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          • I completely agree with you, Rob! I was not saying that we as Christians should hide in our own corner away from sin. I think I probably would’ve stayed in Boy Scouts if it were my choice. What I was saying was that being in an organization such as that could affect us spiritually. We could become accustomed to certain sinful acts and mindsets, making us not as focused on God.

            Now, I am DEFINITELY NOT saying that homosexuals are worse than us, we’re all sinners and deserved to die a death away from God. But as we all know, Jesus obtained all the sin of every person that had been committed, is committed, and will be committed, and died. Through his brutal death our sins were forgiven and forgotten.

            I still love any sinner! Whether it’s a thief, murderer, rapist, or homosexual. We are all equal as human beings and as sinners that deserve separation from God forever, but our awesome, loving Savior made it possible. And that, my friends, is why I want to extend grace, love, and forgiveness to ALL people, regardless of spiritual status. Along with a helpful dose of the Gospel of course! ;D

            Hope I cleared things up for you! (wow, that’s the longest commented I’ve ever done… my fingers need a break.)

            ~Carson Sheppard

          • If nothing else, the oath that the Scouts swear commands you, if you are to be true to it, to OPPOSE what the Scouts are doing, kinda difficult if you stay around.

            As for the situation of trying to avoid the sinners, I actually went to a school, because it worked out and God led me there, that I had first head of from a God-mocking Marxist professor who went there.

            I knew I might be putting myself in danger to being mocked and all the rest of my immediately family went to Bob Jones University, yet I felt led there to give people the Gospel.

            I admit, after two years of still not having a job due to a tanked economy, evil communist politicians, and greedy IT companies hiring foreigners, I still have no job despite the Bachelor’s and a few disabilites I have make costumer service jobs (which require good verbal communication, which is hampered by my disabilites) and whihc seem the only type available around here, out of my reach, that I have wondered if I went the wrong way.

            Yet, perhaps my true calling is writing and politics (I feel more and more strongly that it is.) and that I wasn’t meant to go into IT after all, but maybe to just use some of the skills I learned from it as I will likely need them.

            God did something similar with my father when he went to college to be a preacher yet, after nasty incidents at two different churches, God closed that door and he worked with youth at our current church instead and worked in stores likes Menards for years instead. (And, indeed, God lately has, after many years, seemed to have closed the youth door as Dad is now 53 and getting rather old to keep going with teens (which was his main ministry) as even he realized when he got hurt in a parking lot when horsing around and it put his ankle out of joint for a while. Also, the other door, Menards, may close too as it looks like in a year or two, his department may be cut and he could still stay, but would have to take a pay and benefit cut, so we may end up moving.)

            God acts in ways we don’t see at the time. I have learned that.

            (Indeed, with the current things I’m involved in, I may be able to use my talents to spark revival in the country and shrink the size of the federal government and bring about the downfall of much of this immorality in politics and Planned Parenthood, etc. I know it sounds incredible, and I don’t believe I deserve such an honor (and likely you don’t believe me that I can save the country but I have my faith and have decided that with God, ALL things are possible. BTW, if you want to know what I’m up to, go here: http://www.conventionofstates.com I happen to have someone on Facebook as friends with their personal account who is a leader of the movement and could well be a delegate to such a convention, and, if I share my ideas the LORD has given me, thanks to the wisdom I asked Him for, I could, thanks to God’s help, end up aiding in adding text to the U.S. Constitution itself, which is far more than I could have dreamed when I went off to college to go into IT, which shows that God can direct us to better things if we follow Him.

            Another hint that I’m heading in the direction God wants is that the Devil is trying to hinder me, using none other than my own mother to try and discourage me.

            She can be unkind, to say the least, and his nearly provoked me into sin by the way she treats me at times, and she is downright apathetic about the wrong going on (for instance, she said that while Planned Parenthood was bad to do the abortions, isn’t it good that they are giving out organs to save lives and she also said that, when I brought up how the Supreme Court just crushed many state marriage amendments and turned against God, she said “Well, people once thought that way about black people.”

            Also my brother questioned if, by trying to restore what the Founding Fathers wanted, I was being selfish and not trusting God by trying to do what I’m doing, which almost provoked me into the sin of hating my brother.)

        • Actually, in that matter, being involved as a divorce lawyer is pretty much out as God has a VERY limited allowance for divorce in the Bible and most likely your career will make you urge someone to violate that, and the Bible is VERY clear that taking pleasure in sin (via the money you get from getting the couple to divorce or by aiding it in any way) and by encouraging others to do it is VERY wrong.

          It’s not just partaking in things that would encourage homosexuality or gay marriage, but also anything that would deviate from God’s plan even on straight marriage.

          Also, that may mean having to not work at a dating site, as you might be aiding people to cheat on their spouses or have extramarital affairs. I’m not saying that it will, but if you are forced by your boss to knowingly aide in such a thing to get some cash, you are COMMANDED by God to disobey if they do ask you to encourage such a thing.

          Reply

          • Not to argue or anything, but the Bible also says to respect our authority. I agree with you, I just thought I’d throw that out there.

      • No, actually it IS a good idea, especially as one would have to be a HYPOCRITE to say the Scout oath yet uphold the gay agenda.

        I have family in scouting and so know that part of the scout oath says

        “On my honor I will do my best to honor God and my country….” or something like that. So, by taking that oath, you’re sinning by letting the organization go that way.

        That is VERY clear in the Bible.

        Reply

    • I have stopped associating myself with Boy Scouts, despite having an Eagle Scout as a brother. I just hope my father will join me in boycotting them, though it will be pretty painful as we were in scouts for years and some of our Scouting friends might view the move as treachery.

      I have made my decision. What my father and brother do, God will NOT hold me accountable for.

      Reply

  • I don’t think that there is anything wrong with buying stuff from these companies. It’s just like anything else, isn’t it? Let’s say you own a company that manufactures butcher knives that are intended for kitchen/cooking purposes. If someone stabs their victim with a knife you produced, is it your fault? No. You didn’t make that person stab a victim by making that knife. You didn’t make Walmart support abortion when you bought that pair of jeans. Plus, some companies also do good stuff. I know Walmart hires veterans in need of a job as a sign of respect for those who served our country, and a shoe company called TOMS gives a pair of shoes to a child in need for every pair of shoes they sell. I think as long as the store doesn’t cause you to sin (like having inappropriate images/products hanging everywhere), then go ahead and buy the stuff you need there.

    Reply

    • Actually, many grocery stores DO have seedy magazines on display near the cash register so even the bad images thing is kinda problematic to avoid.

      That is another issue to consider. Do you want to avoid going to any beaches or pools because you might see a woman in a poorly designed bathing suit or bikini and it might cause you to lust? How far do you take this?

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  • Great article! I’ve been thinking about this, but in a little bit of a different way. Where I live, a lot of the stores are owned by Mormons. So would I be supporting Mormonism if I went to their stores? Any advice would be helpful!

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    • Just my opinion, but I don’t see buying things from a store owned by Mormons as being supportive of Mormonism. Mormons have a right to own stores and sell, too. 🙂 You could also look at it as a witnessing opportunity.

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      • Exactly! A lot of people at my school, find Christians to be narrow minded and shallow. By saying “yeah I don’t go to Starbucks because I am a Christian and they support homosexuality,” makes you fit that stereo type. When people see you live God honoring lives, they will realize that you don’t just talk all the time about walking with Him, but that you actually walk with Him. Live a life that demands explanation.

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        • I don’t go to Starbucks because they support everything immoral and unpatriotic under the sun and the CEO himself has actually said that Christians that don’t like what they did with marriage can go sell their stocks. Starbucks was pretty belligerent. That and their coffee is too expensive to patronize them when they act like that anyway.

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  • I was just thinking about this. We could go way out of our way, and spend a lot of money on something that probably is not wrong.

    Or, we can spend that extra time passing out tracts and witnessing to the lost. Making a real difference. Because not shopping at such stores will not make the people they are supporting become Christians. It will not do anything, because we’re the minority. And they will still go to he||.

    Spend that extra money helping the persecuted church. Christians around the world are being killed daily for their faith.

    Let’s do something, Christians!

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  • I wouldn’t say that God Commands us to boycott or refuse to buy from Organizations that support Immorality. As many have said on this thread already, That would be nearly impossible. I personally would say that while Refusing to shop at These store is not Obligitory, it is a very admirable Thing to do

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  • If you fund a company which in turn funds abortion then you are basically funding abortion. Your money is going to a place that kills babies. It’s supporting a place that takes lives. The money from your wallets are given to that company. It’s still your money! It it turn goes into the bank of that abortion hospital. You money is sitting in a bank waiting to be used to kill a baby. No one should fund that. It’s an awful thing.

    We are going to lose more than 2500 babies by the end of the day. We have lost 6,710,668.3 babies since 1970. By planned parenthood this year we are expected to abort 73,315.2 babies. All just in the United States! Worldwide we’ve lost more than 6 BILLION babies since 1980. This is up-to-date scientific information and the numbers are rising every second.

    Please consider what we are doing to the life God has given us. Consider what you are doing to that unborn baby. If you can’t take care of that baby then give birth and leave it at an orphanage! Please do not keep aborting God’s Children.

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    • Another thing to consider is, and this might have to deal with the meat sacrificed to idols thing, is, say that you know that Pepsi, Coca-Cola, and Dr. Pepper Snapple Group are all funding, directly or indirectly (as they indeed are), Planned Parenthood and abortion. You may, with a lot of pain, at least in my case I might add, not buy directly from them or ask anyone to buy from them on your account (i.e. if you are eating out and someone else is paying, presumably it would be just as wrong for you to order it, having them fund it on account of your order as it would be if you paid for it yourself.)

      On the flip side, if someone sends you one of them and you didn’t request them to buy it for you, perhaps it isn’t sinful for you to drink it as they’ve already paid for it (especially if they cannot send it back) and hence you didn’t aid it.

      It’s the same way with gambling. You might not buy a lotto ticket or ask someone to buy one for you, but if someone, of their own volition without your input, buys you a lotto ticket, and, especially if it turns out to win quite a bit, would you still turn down the prize even though you didn’t aid in it?

      Reply

  • I believe one should not “knowingly” fund or support businesses that support immorality.

    However… Don’t stick your head in the sand! “Not knowing” for certain what all a business supports should not be used as an excuse. Don’t be a “don’t ask, don’t tell Christian”…

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  • I mean no disrespect, but I haven’t even read the details of this questions (and the other responses here), and yet I have this strong conviction that we only have one PLAIN answer for this one. It’s so clear with the main question itself, I’m not even sure why is it still in question. 🙁 I am actually bothered why is this being asked. Will we be trying to justify the other answer? >____<

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    • Right, but where do you draw the line? Should you never buy coffee at Starbucks since they give to the LGBT agenda? As well as best buy, target JC Penny, and a ton of other ones?

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      • I honestly don’t know as to ‘how’ not to support these companies in one way or another because technically, we are surrounded by them and it’s virtually impossible to stay away from their products or services. I really, really don’t know… but I know that before, these things never existed. And life went on and people lived just fine. I know I was born and raised to this generation and am living in this age now so I can’t go back to how it was living “without” them… but I’d really, really love to try. >___<

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  • I think another issue to consider is Naaman the Syrian and how he had to bow to an idol (complicated situation, sufice it to say that he was in a pinch and wasn’t truly serving the idol) and Elisha told him to go in peace and didn’t rebuke him.

    In think if you do end up supporting something sinful because to avoid it would be hopelessly inconvenient (or even impossible), I think it will be fine.

    For instance, practically all of the computer companies and loads of car companies are supporting the gay and/or abortion agendas. If we boycott them all, we may well end up without a computer or a car, which is problematic. Indeed, most of the social networks, if not ALL of them, support the immoral stuff, yet avoiding them all could be horribly inconvenient (especially as it could cut off ways of doing ministry, hamper online relationships, and also maybe be impossible due to your career, especially if you have a marketing career.)

    On the flip side, however, I think that while you may at times have to buy from an immoral company, working there is another matter.

    For instance, though you may have huge trouble buying a car, getting a computer, or chatting on a social network if you boycotted all of this, working at one of these places is, usually, easier to avoid.

    Also, I might add, if said company has a habit of viciously pushing the agenda (i.e. you are to support this agenda or can’t criticize it or else you can go clean out your desk), then you shouldn’t even consider it, as it is heading toward a situation of the appearance of evil, as it means you are willingly walking into a company where you may face the temptation to choose Christ or your career.

    While you should always choose Christ over a career, I would think that working at a company that you KNOW may put you in that situation (i.e. if you’ve seen accounts of them doing it before) or you know that the company is SO PC that likely you could be a victim of such a scenario, then I would say it’s sinful to work there to walk willingly into a situation where you are AWARE you could be tempted to sin by fear of loss of job, especially if you are aware your faith isn’t the strongest and you may well cave to the temptation should it arise. (On the flip side, if you whole field has that danger and yet you are sure you are called by God into that field, then you should follow the leading of God of course. On the flip side, if you are into that field just to try and get rich and are putting yourself at risk, then no, it is sinful to risk sinning.)

    That actually should be another consideration in these decisions, even buying. Is buying from somewhere from the necessary things you CANNOT or would do very poorly without going to tempt you into buying stuff you KNOW you can do without that happens to come from the same place, hence perhaps violating your conscience?

    Say you did have to buy from Staples, a very liberal company, as it was the only computer place around that was reasonable in cost and the others were testing your budget? If you had to go there, would you just buy what you need or would you start buying school supplies and things you could get from more honorable companies from Staples instead just because they’re there when you get the stuff you need?

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  • I think that by asking this question, and getting feedback from people is missing the spirit of what this issue is all about. This a question of conscience and conviction, more than a question of right and wrong. It is an ethical issue, not a moral issue.

    Going against your personal conviction is always sin. By asking this question, you are essentially answering it as well. If you are unsure if you can support a company/corporation/business/etc. because of where it’s profits go, or what they stand for, DO NOT. You have an uneasy feeling about doing this or that, then it is against your convictions, so you should not do that.

    I cannot say one way or the other on topics like this, because I cannot impose my convictions on you. That is the essence of the issue.

    I would suggest looking into the subject of christian ethics for more depth on this concept I have brought up. It is such a huge field of study, and no comment could do it justice, but if you are mulling over these things, you could find this area of study helpful.

    Reply

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By Discussion Questions March 17, 2015
351 comments
rebelling against low expectations

The Rebelution is a teenage rebellion against low expectations—a worldwide campaign to reject apathy, embrace responsibility, and do hard things. Learn More →