OLIVIA WRITES: I am not allowed to read or watch Harry Potter but I know many Christians who absolutely love the books and movies.
They ask me why I’m not allowed to read or watch them and I usually say, “I’m not allowed to read or watch things with witchcraft in them,” because that is what my parents told me. But then they always ask why I am allowed to watch Lord of the Rings — and I have no idea what to say to them.
What is the difference between wizards in Lord of the Rings and the wizards in Harry Potter? Is it bad to watch or read Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings or is it just personal conviction?
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there’s nothing wrong with the Harry Potter series. it’s just a book so kids can imagine what its like to live in the wizarding world. there is no putting down GOD or anything in that manner. there some of the best books I’ve ever read.
But what glory is it bringing God?
thatcher has a fair question. Christians, in our legalism, love to ask “what’s wrong with it?” But we are not bound by the law, we are bound by righteousness. So I would ask, what’s right with it? How does it bring glory to God?
I believe it is more than personal conviction. The Bible sales that sorcerers shall not enter the kingdom of God. I think the reason feel like the Lord of the Rings is okay is because, unlike Harry Potter, it was written by a Christian and the magic in it does not have Satanic roots. I believe the author of Harry Potter actually researched the cult before writing her book, so that her magic could be more “realistic”. If I have the chance, I might post a longer comment on here. My sister wrote a whole article on why Harry Potter is dangerous, but I don’t have time to post it right now.
Actually, she said that she has to make some edits she doesn’t have time to make right now, so nvm. Just one more thing I would add, although the Lord of the Rings is written by a Christian and doesn’t have the same kind of Satanic roots, I’m not certain about what I think even of it.
Good thoughts!
Can you link the article?
So sorry MimeforJesus, my sister (not Ana, but Melody…she posted an article on here about College once) said she needs to do some revisions that she doesn’t have time to make right now, so I probably won’t end up posting it.
I’d say it’s personal conviction. I personally haven’t read them, but mostly because I simply have no desire to (give me LOTR any day!). I have some friends who’ve read them, some who haven’t. One thing I would say – don’t give it to kids. The only ones reading HP should be those with enough wisdom to at least think about it and what it says/portrays/whatever. I also remember one friend’s mum pointing out something like how it’s the wizards who are glorified in HP, and those who aren’t wizards are dumb, etc (or something like that, I can’t quite remember what she said). LOTR has clear good and bad, and the heroes fight for good. From what I’ve heard, HP is a bit more blurry.
Well said.
Thanks 🙂
I haven’t read Harry Potter, so I’m really not qualified to comment on that. I /have/ read/watched The Lord of the Rings though.
In The Lord of the Rings, it is clear where the magic comes from – it was given to Gandalf and the other wizards (Saruman, Radagast, Alatar, and Pallando) by Eru Ilúvatar, who was the creator of the world. (Basically, the representation of God in Tolkien’s legendarium).
Like I said, though, I haven’t read/watched Harry Potter, so I can’t draw any comparisons between them.
You know who Illuvatar is?! *virtual high-five*
Aye, that I do 🙂 *virtual high-five*
Another thing I might add is that in The Lord of the Rings, most of the magic-users (the wizards, Sauron, the Balrog) are all Ainur (basically, angels, or, in the case of Sauron and the Balrog, fallen angels).
I would say that there is a difference between what is considered magic in-world and what is considered magic out-of-world. What the elves do would be considered magic in our world, but in Middle-earth, it is not ‘magic’. It is inherent ability that was given to the race of elves by Ilúvatar when he created them.
For someone to want to ‘learn to do Middle-earth magic’ properly, they would have to go back and have themselves born as an elf (or created as an Ainur) 😉
Along those same lines, in Harry Potter, only certain people are born with the ability to use magic. And to be able to control it, they have to go to a school for it. So by that argument, the wizards of Harry Potter’s world are only using abilities that they were born with, and just like in the Lord of the Rings, some of them choose to use it for evil and others choose to use it to fight evil.
I also want to point out that when Tolkien wrote the Lord of the Rings series, he specifically said that they were not allegorical. They were their own story created by him. Granted he was a Christian, so there are Christian elements in it, but it isn’t an allegory. In the same way, Harry Potter is not intended as an allegory for Christianity, but that doesn’t prevent it from having some moments that are allegorical. For instance, the battle between good and evil, the triumph of good over evil, and the willingness to sacrifice yourself for the good of others.
Oh, that’s right! Good point 🙂
I don’t think it’s necessarily bad to read Harry Potter because everyone has different opinions and different parental guidelines. That said, I am not allowed to read the Harry Potter books or watch the Harry Potter movies right now. I know some people love the books, and I have no doubt that they are well written because they are so well loved, but I personally will not read them, and that’s okay because everyone has different reading preferences. The reason I’ll read LOTR is because it’s an allegory and also, the characters that are clearly supposed to be good do not try to learn witchcraft and use it. Like David said, Gandalf is given those powers by the Creator figure in the LOTR allegory. He isn’t trying to learn it and manipulate it on his own. Otherwise, that would make him evil. I definitely wouldn’t judge HP if you haven’t read it, though. Definitely don’t feel pressured to read it.
I like what you said about Gandalf, and one of the wizards aka. Saruman actually does become evil for trying to “manipulate” his powers on his own. In the movie, Gandalf even says, “I am Saruman the white as he should have been” or something along those lines
That’s a great point!
Sorry to be a killjoy but don’t get too excited. HP isn’t that well written 🙁
Oh, it’s too bad you didn’t enjoy it. Like I said, I haven’t read it, so I can’t really tell.
I digress. Jo may not be the BEST author out there, but they are written to much critical acclaim, and she uses countless writing tools and elements to absolute perfection. Whether or not you like it, from a literary perspective, it is a brilliantly written book. 🙂
I’m not arguing. I just found the plots repetetive and shoddy and the characters a touch on the whiny side. Each to his own eh? If we all liked the same style it would be boring 🙂
I’m sorry if I seemed like I was arguing. That was not my intent. You’re totally right! Just as with any novel, there are numerous opinions on both sides. 🙂
I wouldn’t say that LoTR was an allegory. It was something a lot better, a story that glorifies God.
I think it’s allegorical elements are definitely subtle, but yes, they do end up glorifying God. That’s a great thing about allegories.
Here is where my conviction lies. The Bible says not to call evil good and good evil. In the HP series, the “good” guy uses witchcraft in order to fight evil. It is alluring because the character is lovable and pulls you in.
Furthermore, HP went far beyond the realm of fantasy. They have HP camps that actually teach kids witchcraft and encourage it. As a former witch myself, I know firsthand the “spell” that witchcraft can put you under, and it is directly satanic.
Kids across the world have been captivated by these books in a very obsessive way that fosters in them a desire to imitate the main character. This includes imitating the spells and chants. The Bible teaches us not to be imitators of evil, and this is what they are doing in the name of fun and fantasy.
Wow! I’d be interested in hearing your story mrose!
Having read both the Harry Potter and Lord of The Rings books, I think that your argument about it being about the good guy using magic, and thus it’s bad… is a rather foolish one. Gandalf was a full on good guy. And he used magic left and right. The elves had magic to some extent, and it shows good uses of it. Harry Potter used magic, in a good way to defeat the evil in the world.
Also, Lord of The Rings doesn’t stay in the books. There are camps, and such for Lord of The Rings just as well as there are for Harry Potter.
I wouldn’t ever hand the Harry Potter series to a young child, as they deal with hard things like death, loosing friends, fighting evil, and the inner struggle to not try for power. This being said, I would never give the Lord of the Rings series to a young child, as it deals with harder subjects as well. However, because I wouldn’t give these to young children doesn’t mean that older, more seasoned readers couldn’t read these books.
Damsel, it sounds like you are saying my argument is foolish based upon a comparison of HP VS. LOTR.
But I never defended LOTR or made any comparison between it and HP.
God doesn’t approve of anyone using magic or witchcraft as a means of accomplishing good.. In fact, He lumps those who practice witchcraft and sorcery together with others who will not inherit the kingdom of God -as well as those who approve of such things,
Am I saying that everyone who reads these books will be lured into witchcraft, or directly approve to those who do? Of course not, but too many kids (including teens) have been lured into witchcraft via these books who would otherwise not have been,
And if there are LOTR camps that also encourage sorcery and spells, are they any better simply because the magic is more subtle?
Subtlety is the Enemy’s specialty, my friend. Whether it comes in the form of a winsome child or a white-bearded sorcerer that is easy to love.
I know because I use to be a “white” witch who only wanted the power to do “good.” But our definition of good and God’s definition of good are generally two different things.
Here is a link that shows how much the line between imagination and the occultic world has blurred since HP’s conception: http://www.crossroad.to/text/articles/Harry&Witchcraft.htm
Wow, excellent thoughts! Thanks for sharing, @disqus_3V0LBEetNG:disqus!
I second what @trent_blake:disqus said — I’d love to hear your story!
Thanks for your post, mrose. Since I’m already ancient, I can tell you that I have known two different men who had “dabbled” in sorcery a couple of decades before I knew them. They both quit. One quit absolutely “cold turkey” (means suddenly, completely, with no medical support) because he got the liver scared out of him. The other hadn’t gotten as far in as the man who quit. He was a screen writer and a director and he kept references to witchery in his Hollywood stuff, but he told me, “I read a lot of books for background stuff, but I never included anything that I didn’t change significantly, chants and spells and whatnot. I sure didn’t want to risk anybody trying it for real.” These men were not professing Christians, they claimed to be agnostic, but they sure were dedicated to trying to be on the side of goodness and not evil. Their lives spoke for them. They did seriously hard things when the culture around them was asking them to party-hearty.
It is quite a challenge for a Christian to understand that God and the Universe created by God extends way on out there beyond human understanding. We do believe in a reality beyond the physical part of it we take action in every day. We do believe that the love of God for us transcends the whole universe, the parts we know and the parts we do not. But as we come to know and shun evil here on earth, we have to trust that God is also handling the evil beyond what we know.
And now the doggy crowd is signaling for their supper! drF.
Exactly!!! I would also love to hear your story, mrose!
Thanks mrose – good point there! I guess that sometimes we forget how captivating a book like this can be for younger children who don’t have the maturity to see its effect on them. (That said, I think a lot of older people don’t always have this maturity either!)
Great explanations, thanks. Like many of you have commented below, I’ve read the Lord of the Rings, but not Henry Potter. One of you suggested that HP shouldn’t be given to young children to read. I would second that suggestion, even though I’ve heard so many parents comment on how thrilled they are that their grade school children are reading big books like Harry Potter. The reason I worry about the single digit and early double digiters getting so engrossed in HP is that they are so close to what has been called “The Magic Years” (there is an early childhood book by that name written about forty years ago, the magic years being ages 1-4 in that book. Magic there just means very young children are still exploring the natural laws of the Universe, gravity, object permanence, and so on). It takes a while for a child’s mind to learn the difference between “real life” and fantasy. By the time they hit double digits, most of them have figured it out. This job is hard enough without confusing them with realistic tales of lives that don’t even operate following the laws of gravity!
Agreed! =)
I raised the question about the differences between LOTR & HP this morning at my house. The dogs said it didn’t matter because humans lacked the brain power to understand the question, since everything that requires reading fantasy anyhow. Spotter specifically reminded me how well she had ignored Sequoia back when Sequoia came home from first grade and tried to teach Spotter (Brittany Spaniel) to read. Then Fred, who can read, said I should have mentioned in my post that the wizards in LOTR were the same kinds of wizards (sorcerers like in the Bible) who have practiced a human craft that comes down from pre-history. The whole point of the classic Tolkien universe is that all God’s creatures on earth are working mightily at whatever their “ends” (read goals) are. Some of the wizards were working for good, some for evil, but wizardry wasn’t the point of the story. That’s where HP goes off the deep end. Fred says, (I haven’t read HP, either, but he has) that the whole fantasy takes place in a school for wizards, the whole story almost forces readers to engage in “magical” thinking. Magical thinking is counter-productive to getting anything done because every flow chart ends up with several boxes labeled “Magic Occurs.” Magical thinking interrupts the natural investigation of cause and effect that takes most of us out of the magic years about the time we’re ready for first grade. Of course God is the prime mover. But how can anyone get anything done for any cause if they are sitting around trying to make their magic stronger?
We are so far out of the magic ages that I can even talk about talking dogs to you all and you ALL know I’m kidding. My dogs think I’m retarded because I can’t do ESP (extra-sensory perception, mind reading.) That last is not a joke! Cheers. dr.F.
Your dogs made some good points! 🙂
My dogs thank you, of course. drF.
Lol I second what @grace_matson:disqussaid. =P
Hahahahaha! Your talking dogs are cool!
Siigghh……. “Big books like Harry Potter”…
Please give me something to punch. Or at least glare at menacingly.
Here’s the deal, HP is not good literature. It just isn’t. There’s no richness, there’s no texture, there’s no complexity. HP is like cotton candy, LoTR is like a steak. The cotton candy is yummy and makes you feel good up front, but leaves you as empty as you started. Steak takes some time, it takes preparation, you have to cut it up… but it leaves you full when you’re done.
You’re right. Maybe cotton candy made with fake sugar. Can’t argue there. drF.
Fighting_Falcon, I’ve been trying to think about the original question and trying to think through all the comments everyone has made. I think we’ve discussed the literary merits and dangers of inadvertently biting off seriously damaging witchery in taking too lightly something that has proved deadly for recorded as well as legendary history. Just being charged with witchcraft was a death sentence in colonial Salem, MS, old ladies often ended up socially isolated if they scared people.
So I want to re-visit the part of the original question where the question of whether or not it is a good idea to tell young people what they should or should not read.
It has been very encouraging to me to see so many people saying that if their parents say don’t read something, they don’t read it. The original question was wonderful because Olivia (are you the original poster, or am I confused) was not challenging the parental directive, or her parent’s judgment in issuing the directive, she was just asking for an expansion on WHY one book was okay and the other wasn’t.
In the discussion that followed it was obvious that while obedience to parents was supported, whereas parental control over reading material didn’t sit well with some folks.
So– I’d like to address the issue of direct parental censorship. First of all, probably parents who speak out against some books are smart enough to know that they are issuing a directive that is impossible to monitor. What I suspect is happening is that these parents have been careful to protect their sons and daughters at earlier ages and by the time the correspondents were typing away on this discussion board, their parents were well on the way to have showed them the activities of thought and reading and movie watching and TV show choosing that amounts to SELF CENSORSHIP.
Even though I’m using a “bad” word: CENSORSHIP, I’m leading up to my point: We can either self-censor consciously or be can self-censor without consideration and afore thought.
We are very lucky right now, as very young adults and very retired adults we’ve got time to read, think, and communicate. We go where we are interested. To focus deliberately — as the Rebelution calls for — on everything that is good and everything that challenges us to be better people to God’s glory means that eventually our interests are so good and so challenging that all the bad stuff literally gets squeezed out. This includes bad literature.
Eventually, no one cares what you read and you have to join a book club to even talk about books. We’ve each only got so much time in the day, and the direction we get from anyone who cares about us may help us not to waste anymore time than we need to! drF.
In my opinion, it IS a matter of personal conviction, but it is also not very wise. I read the HP’s a few years ago and loved them, but stopped reading them after I began to feel convicted. I had no clue why I felt this way at the time, but now I know that it was kind of like playing with fire. The Bible repeatedly states that witchcraft is unacceptable, but these books portray it as something that can be good, if used the right way. I don’t believe reading these books is wise because it is so easy to begin to think that way yourself, which is dangerous. The books were interesting and very well written, but in my opinion, not worth the risk of being influenced by them and drawn into something that God clearly detests. But if you can read them and not be influenced by them at all, I don’t believe you’re sinning.
Here’s a really insightful post written by an author friend of mine.
http://shantellemaryh.blogspot.com/2015/05/faithful-fridays-philippians-48-part.html?m=1
The bottom line is, HP glorifies what the Bible calls satanic/sorcery. LOTR is more about good/vs evil, and inherent power (if I’m correct) than about learning how to do magic.
I think that if you have the discernment to read them, without being swayed, well, that’s your own matter of conscience. I was never allowed to read or watch HP, and I’m honestly glad I didn’t. There are more edifying Christian fantasy books, and one of my favorites is The Ilyon Chronicles by Jaye L. Knight, which is completely magic-free. Those books are wonderful, with nothing controversial.
Totally 😉
You should read the Wingfeather Saga too. It’s the best! 🙂
Yes! The Wingfeather Saga is awesome (although I haven’t read the fourth one yet)!
Me neither but I’m betting Tink makes the best king ever!! 😀
I really want to read The Ilyon Chronicles because so many of my blogger friends love that series! Another great Christian fantasy series is the Tales of Goldstone Wood. Not only are they incredibly written and mind blowingly complex, but they also present beautiful allegorical storylines. I honestly can’t get enough of that series!
Right on, Amanda! Witchcraft and sorcery do NOT have to be present for a good storyline.
I would say,
NO!
Definitely. Harry Potter is encouraged to do stuff that the Bible says is wrong like sorcery and being encouraged to do bad things.
Absolutly
Sure, but does that mean we should not read it?
So what you are asking is: Should we not be comfortable reading a book or viewing a movie that describes or depicts witchcraft in detail (for the purpose of entertainment)? I mean if you are agreeing with WisdomSeekingScot that “Harry Potter is encouraged and taught to do stuff that the Bible says is wrong like sorcery and being encouraged to do bad things.” Please correct me if I’m wrong, I do find this a little confusing.
What about some other thing that is abominable to our Lord? I mean, this is a sin that according to God is punishable by death, like adultery or murder. Should we be comfortable with books or movies that offer depictions of those things for entertainment?
I think so… but I suppose it is up to your parents and whether or not they think you are mature enough.
I think that we definitely should not read or watch Harry Potter because it does encourage sin!
but the difference with lord of the rings is if I know correctly tolkin was trying to show the bible like his friend c.s. Lewis.
I get made fun of at school for thinking this but I think it is still true!
I think God put this disscusion on here for me to write on because I was just thinking the exact same thing!
I think it’s great that you have your own opinion, and I totally respect it. But as a devout, lifelong Christian who has read Harry Potter more times that she can count, I have never found it to encourage sin or dishonor God in anyway. In fact, I have learned many valuable truths from it. It is a personal decision though, and I respect yours. 🙂
i didn’t mean to be offensive that just my opinion
(sorry if i did offend u)
Oh no, not at all! I was just offering my alternate opinion. Sorry if I sounded offensive/offended.
glad we got that cleared up.
Well, personally, I don’t watch/read either lol. 😁
But one thing to consider is if the “magical power” isn’t coming from God, where is it coming from???? There’s only one other place it could come from….
In the LOTR it did come from God actually. JRR Tolkien writes of Eru Illuvatar who created the world and sent five maia (angels) to help Middle-earth fight evil, specifically fight Sauron, another maia who turned against Eru. The angels he sent to help were Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast, and the two blue wizards. Only Gandalf ends up staying the course and using the power he has been given for good as he was supposed to. Shows we all have gifts but it’s our choice if we use them to further God’s purpose or our own.
Hint: I think Gandalf had it right. You should follow his example. (-:
Oh ok, cool! I actually meant to say that I’d kind of seen the first movie…all I remember was a cave troll, canoeing, Gandalf dying, and some hideous sounding monsters. XD
Well you remember all the important stuff. XD
Eru is just in the Silmarillion (no move of that… yet) which another of JRR Tolkien’s works in which he details the origins of middle-earth and what happened before The Hobbit/LOTR start up.
Lol, I have friends that talk about that all the time…two in particular will talk about that EVERY TIME they talk. XD lol
Amen!
Wow, y’all have said some good things! Keep the answers coming! =)
In the Lord of the Rings, magic is a tool that is neither good nor evil, and is used by both Sauron and Gandalf for their own purposes. Gandalf used it for good works, Sauron used it for evil works. LotR is a fantasy, and is obviously not meant to be real, so rather than meaning that magic is okay, we can extrapolate the meaning that people have a choice in whether or not they use the things that have been given to them to pursue good or evil.
Since I haven’t read Harry Potter, I can’t say for 100% sure whether or not magic is treated well in the series but I’ve heard that it uses fortune-telling devices that people use in the real world (like reading tea leaves) and treats it as something that works as part of the fantasy element of the book, so I wouldn’t give it to a child who’s still figuring out what’s right and what’s wrong. However, it’s probably fine for someone who has enough maturity to realize what is fantasy and what’s not. I could be wrong, however, since I haven’t read it, so to anyone who has feel free to fill me in on anything I’m missing!
I agree that it can be dangerous to read something with magic in it, but I think as long as it treats it well and you’re very cautious about not confusing fantasy and reality, you’ll be fine.
Also – I think your parents probably just want what’s best for you, and want to keep you away from dangerous things. Nobody’s perfect, but it sounds like your parents are doing their best, and that’s awesome. 🙂
I have read the Harry Potter series and watched the movies. The whole universe is a part of the author’s, J.K. Rowling, imagination. Whether you choose to take it seriously or not, is your choice. In most children’s books, there is at least some element of magic. I am a Christian and this has not effected my relationship with God, not once, and I started reading the series when I was eight. You have to accept that this a fantasy, even though witchcraft is true, according to the bible. Yes, you might not want to give it to a child who is still trying to figure things out between good and bad. But as I’ve said before, the book and movie series has not effected my Christianity.
I’ve never read the HP books or watched the movies, but i’ve heard that the sorcery/magic in HP is much more Satanic driven than in LOTR. That’s not something that i wanna mess around with, no matter how innocent it may seem. Maybe it won’t affect my relationship with God. But, i’d rather just steer clear altogether and focus my time and energy on something i know pleases God, for sure and for certain. Does HP really honor God? If not, it’s not worth it.
You’re right. If something doesn’t honor God, we shouldn’t be part of it!
Random question I just thought of – is reading HP a little akin to using the Ring in LOTR? I don’t know the answer to that. I might not be that extreme. Something to ponder, though.
Yes, I think they are very similar. Like I say above though in Harry Potter using witchcraft is cool. In LOTR, using it kills you or drives you insane. Only the bad guys make witchcraft and the good guys that try to use it end up in bad shape (Saruman, Denethor, Smeagoul, etc.) Make sense?
Is the magic in HP actually witchcraft though? I mean, does it actually differ from the kind of stuff the good guys use in LOTR? If it is, and HP portrays it as cool, that’s definitely not good. But not having read HP, I can’t say whether or not the magic there is any different from that in LOTR. I think some people might say it’s different, and some say it’s the same.
I haven’t read or watched Harry Potter so correct me if I’m wrong but I think this is the difference. In LOTR, some characters have innate magical abilities that they are “born” with (to the extent angels are born of course). They use these powers just like you use your arms or legs; it’s just part of who they are. Some use magic for good, some for evil just like some use their arms for good and some for evil. Even if the magic in LOTR is wrong there is no way for a (if you’ll excuse the term) muggle to “gain” magic. In HP, you can become initiated into magical cults and gain this dark power for yourself without consequences. Dark magic and witchcraft are real things not to be trifled with. HP shows that you can (and to a small extent should) try to become immersed in witchcraft. LOTR shows no way to gain magic and those that medel with witchcraft end up in big trouble. The perfect example is Saruman who studied Sauron’s ways so intently that he eventually succumbed to them.
I think we agree that witchcraft is evil. In that case, LOTR shows evil power as something that cannot be gained by a normal person and those that try end up in dire straits. HP shows witchcraft as a good thing that the good guys use for good when in reality nothing is further from the truth.
Well said. Thanks. 🙂
You have obviously not read the harry potter books. Magic is innate in harry potter as well. You are born with the ability to use magic and if you are not it is impossible to ever become able to use it.
Excellent analogy. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. However, I don’t think we shouldn’t read HP just because it might be bad. We should know our enemy.
Are you saying that reading HP would help us ‘know our enemy?’ Because if so… isn’t that still like playing with fire or the Ring? I think there’d be other ways to know our enemy without reading HP (if the magic in HP is from our enemy, which I can’t say for certain it is, not having read it).
Oooh, nice play.
But Frodo still took the ring to mordor. Boromir liked it too much. Frodo wanted to throw up his hands and just bury it somewhere deep, but Gandalf wouldn’t let him. I don’t think that we either should throw up our hands. We have to pick up the ring in order to throw it into the fire, and we have to pick up HP to throw IT into the fire.
So, you’re saying reading HP so that we know it’s evil (IF it is evil, that is; I still hold that it might not be, I just can’t say cause I haven’t read it) is equivalent to picking up the Ring (so that we can take it to Mordor, so to speak)? Well, can’t we know if it’s evil from other sources? People who’ve already read it? Those who know it’s history/ have researched it without actually reading it?
I’ll just put forward again that I’m not really picking a side here. I’m playing devil’s advocate for all sides, or at least I’m trying. I just want to look at it from all angles.
“So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
I would like to posit that we should decide to conquer things, not run from them.
So, not reading it, even if we know it’s evil, is running from it? Hmm… if conquering it is possible that might be the best option. But at the same time, I’d rather run from evil than play around with it…
How would you suggest we might conquer it?
One way is being able to articulate to friends who love it why they should not love it, which you cannot do without reading it.
Yes, you can articulate to people who love it why they shouldn’t love it without reading it… however, if they’re not asking you questions, just confronting them about it is NOT gonna work to change their minds unless the Holy Spirit is working in their life. I’ve had people ask me questions about why I don’t do some things or believe something, and I can articulate it without having done/believed it. You and many others are using a fallacy to justify a book/movie series.
Two points:
1) What happens then? So you convince you’re friends who’ve already read it that it’s bad. Then… what? How is that conquering it? Wouldn’t they then try to convince their friends that it’s bad and they shouldn’t read it (what you call running from it)? I feel like the process would kinda be like this: you convince you’re friends that it’s bad, then they try to convince someone else who’s never read it that it’s bad, but then they might say hey, that’s running from it, I should read it too so I can convince MY friend’s who’ve read it that it’s bad, so they read it. The net result is everyone reading it and knowing it’s bad. But everyone’s read it, and what does that do? How does that conquer the book? To avoid ‘running,’ everyone would have to read it to be convinced it’s bad. Which leads to my second point.
2) I still think you can know it’s bad without reading it. We can arm ourselves with (a) research about the book and (b) the opinions of multiple friends who HAVE read it and know it’s bad. Thus we can articulate to our friends who might love it why they should not. It’s like the argument going round a while ago about Shades of Gray. I know that book and that movie is bad. Really, really bad. But I don’t have to read or watch them to find out why. I have researched it, and I have the backing of people who have read it/watched it and know how bad it is. To read it/watch it would be playing with fire, or worse. I refuse to do that. I will (a) run the other direction from evil, and (b) have a good case for why it’s bad up my sleeve to that I can (hopefully) convince others to run from evil as well. And I will do the same or HP (if and when I get convinced that it is truly bad. As I’ve said, I’ve made these arguments about running/not running with the premise that HP is bad, but I am not fully convinced of that myself).
Does that make sense?
Hey there @Fighting_Falcon:disqus! I think I like your general idea on conquering evil instead of just shying away from it. We need to be at war against the realms of darkness, not cower from them. And we are certainly to be aware of the forces of evil aimed at us in order to combat them. But at the same time, studying our enemy is not the same as filling our minds with the gory details of how they use their evil. We are made acutely aware of the danger of satanic forces in scripture, and are given special tactics to use in order to resist them (one of which is to “run away”). But ultimately, the battle is not ours- WE will never conquer this. We are not even told to “conquer” witchcraft; we are told to avoid it and its teachings at all costs (See Leviticus, Deuteronomy and the Prophets, Romans and Galatians). Only the Coming King will take care of this nemesis. So, bottom lining it here: #1 To run from evil is not cowardice, but rather obedience to God Almighty (Amos 5:14, Job 28:28, Proverbs 14:16 for starters) # 2 We are to fill our minds with good thoughts, not evil thoughts (Phil. 4:8, Romans 12:2) Not trying to be rude, it’s just that just some of your comments seem to put down the idea of distancing ourselves from evil. I would love to hear further thoughts on your perspective.
Amen, well said!
Ezra,
Thanks for taking the time to make a well thought out response! I’ll try to do your effort equal justice.
The main thrust of your argument, and it is a good one, seems to be that scripture generally teaches to avoid evil and not to “walk with the council of the wicked, or stand in the way of sinners, or sit in the seat of scoffers.” (Psalm 1). The issue is, this is not the only perspective scripture has on the problem. Christ also went to the houses of tax collectors, talked with filthy prostitutes, and all around put all the holy people in a tizzy. Paul, too, did his fair share of interaction with the pagan intelligentsia of the day. So why the disconnect? Where’s the missing link to these seemingly opposed concepts? It seems to me that the difference here is being IN and being OF.
Amos 5:14: “SEEK good, and not evil”.
Job 28:28: “The FEAR of the Lord is wisdom”
Psalm 1: “WALK not in the council of the wicked nor STAND in the way of sinners nor SIT in the seat of scoffers.”
It seems to me that we should be seeking, fearing, walking, standing, and sitting with Christ rather than seeking, fearing, walking, standing, and sitting with sin. These verbs imply a great investment in the thing that you are seeking… so if for instance someone were to be in an HP fan club, I would wonder if they were really thinking straight. But reading it through one time to see what all the fuss is about with your friends (and reading it with an attitude of examination and not mindless entertainment) is not at all seeking, fearing, walking, standing, or sitting with it.
*Note* I haven’t seen the movies, so all these comments here address the book only. I found that the book’s writing was not powerful enough artistically crafted enough to have any real effect on a person like reading a great work might, so the dangers of it seem small to me. The movie? I couldn’t say.
Okay, I can see better what you meant by reading it (not as entertainment but examination), although I would still hold that we don’t have to read HP to know what we’re dealing with in the realm of sorcery/witchcraft, and therefore see no good reason to put it in our minds. Let’s just be very careful to respect the convictions of others and not encourage anything that could violate the conscience of a brother or sister in Christ (Romans 14:13). Thanks for your replying and not being offended by my comment, I can come on a little strong at times 🙂
So we should buy copies of HP to burn them? That would be fun… jk, jk.
That is a cool idea! 🙂 Like, every time you use it, you get closer to the “spirit-only realm” (Tolkien called it something cooler, I’m sure). That’s cool!
I personally think that it would be okay to watch it, as long as we know it isn’t true/right.
I don’t read HP personally but it’s up to others whether they want to make that choice. I’ve been asked the same question and my answer is basically ‘because LOTR is clearly fantasy whereas HP normalises and even encourages the occult.’ With family on both sides involved in the occult since way back, I’m not comfortable with books that make out like it’s a normal thing that can be used however you want. It’s not just HP. Skulduggery Pleasant is another series which springs to mind. There are a few other books but I can’t think of them off the top of my head.
I’ve never had anything to do with Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings. My parents have never let me get close to anything like it I hardly know what it is! As Christians why do we want to waste our time on the devils stuff. theirs loads of Christian stuff that’s far better for your mine than this garbage. Olivia I’m sure your not missing anything, think of it as a blessing that your parents have the wisdom not to let you read or watch this stuff.
The world’s a big place, Daniel. When are you going to stop running from it and start fighting it?
Also, LoTR is not “devil’s stuff.” In fact, I would call it a much more holy book than most books that are written as ‘Christian books’ today. J. R. R. Tolkien was a Christian, and there have been few times that I have seen more clearly Christ and his sacrifice than through reading LoTR.
Hey Fighting_Falcon, I agree with you that LOTR rocks, but I’d say we shouldn’t call a human-made book “holy”…
I agree, we should not call man-made things holy. Calling something holy implies that it is complete, perfect, and like God. But assigning things DEGREES of holiness is different. Remember that this creation and man himself was at one time holy. And after the fall, not all holiness and righteousness was expelled entirely (Romans 1:20, Genesis 15:6). Creation is no longer wholly holy, but there are lingering glimpses of glory that we can perceive. So in the sense that LoTR displays more of Christ’s character, his divine power, holiness, justice, wisdom, and truth than most Christian books that are published today, I think that I am justified in saying it is a holier book than those.
Ohhh, okay 🙂 Thanks for claritying!
I’m not running from it! As I say I’ve had little to do with any of this kind of stuff I’m just going by what my parents and friends have said. Maybe I will look into the LOTR and find out for my self.
You say there’s better Christian books… can you point me to them? I’ve been looking at other “Christian fiction” books and have been severely disappointed recently; all of them turned out really weird. Any suggestions? Sounds like you know what you’re talking about 🙂
Mime, I suggest the Tales of Goldstone Wood. The books are beautifully written allegories and they are so deliciously complex. Besides, the author is really nice and she holds a ton of contests for fans of the series and writers in general.
Thanks, @anaideline:disqus! I’ll look them up 🙂
OOH! Just read an AMAZING series called The Door Within Trilogy! LOVED LOVED LOVED! Was SO good! Plus I started reading another trilogy the author wrote and have been wondering why I haven’t heard about him sooner!
http://www.amazon.com/The-Door-Within-Trilogy-Book/dp/1400322642
Thank you!
No problem! Book worms have to stick together! Let me know if you read them and like/dislike them! I need a fan! (I do have one, but she lives further away is busy and just got married!)
I’ve got to see if my library has them.
I can’t really recommend you any books because I never read books I just don’t have time. Well there’s one http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1619492660/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687522&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1453832866&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=14R0YRN0MHMYWE4HFWXZ I know what you mean by saying your disappointed with Christian fiction my mum is the same.
Okay, well thanks. I do lots of reading… and writing.
books like harry potter and lord of the rings and Narnia all helped give me a better under standing of the bible they are what lift up my faith and encourage me. when i finished one of the books my sister ,who has read them, and I would talk about what we found amazing in it.
If they have helped you that’s good. But you need to be careful when your reading them that you don’t pick up anything that will harm your christian walk.
I’m not sure you can call it ‘garbage’ without having read it or having the backing of multiple people who have read/researched it. Harry Potter may well be garbage, but as @disqus_A7z9Q4GJKM:disqus said, LOTR, Narnia, etc, are Christian novels that help me gain a deeper understanding of God.
Ok I haven’t read them but i’m just going by what people I know tell me. Sorry if I upset you.
All good! Funny though, I’ve never met anyone who hasn’t liked LOTR. I’ve heard mixed thoughts about HP, but no-one has ever told me LOTR is rubbish! In my opinion, is it an incredible piece of literature. Have you read the Narnia books? Or any of C.S. Lewis’s work?
No I haven’t read any of C.S Lewis work because my mum told me not to.
Oh OK. Well, I wouldn’t want to you go against your mum, although I’m kinda surprised that she doesn’t want you to read Lewis. He’s a very highly respected theologian, and his works are both intellectually brilliant, and very Biblically accurate. Mere Christianity is probably his most popular theology book. I personally found it very helpful and challenging. His fiction works, including the Narnia series, are quite amazing. Yeh, there’re fiction, but they have soooo many Biblical allegories, and you can very clearly see how his faith comes out in his fiction. Anyway, as I said, don’t go behind your mum’s back, of course, but I would be inclined to respectfully ask them to explain why she doesn’t want you to read his books. She may very well have a good reason, and I’d be interested in hearing it.
You said it brother it is garbage we don’t keep to fill our heads with that juck.
I have read and watched the Lord of the Rings but not Harry Potter as well so I definitely know where you’re coming from, Olivia.
I think if you look at what is going on in both series there is a pretty big distinction. In the LOTR, the heroes that have magic are the wizards (Gandalf, Saruman, and Radagast), the Balrog, and Sauron. Like I said below to @GuitarwithArms:disqus, those are actually all maia (angels) created by the creator of Middle-earth, Eru Illuvatar. The balrogs and Sauron revolted and were working against Eru’s purposes so he sent five angels to assist them (Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, and the two blue wizards). Only Gandalf ends up staying the course and doing what he was sent to do. We all have gifts but it’s our choice how you use them.
In Harry Potter, the heroes use witchcraft, spells, and fortune telling to harm their enemies. There is a difference. There is some stuff in LOTR that could be called witchcraft (Saruman and Denethor communicating with Sauron via Palantir, the ring, Nazgul, etc.) but it is all shown as wrong. This is the main difference. Harry Potter encourages using spells and telling fortunes in tea leaves because that’s what all the heroes do. The objects similar to that in the LOTR are shown as wrong and evil like they really are. Just look at how those who used the rings or palantirs turned out, Saruman, Denethor, Smeagoul (and to a lesser degree, Bilbo, even being around it a little corrupts you), and the Nazgul all died.
The big difference is this: in Harry Potter, it’s cool and upstanding to use dark witchcraft to hurt your enemies. In LOTR, those who attempt to use witchcraft or other dark magic and spells end up dead or insane which is what will happen if you really go after that stuff in real life. Witchcraft is a real thing that really happens in real life and not something we can afford to play around with. It will corrupt and destroy you, just like the ring.
I agree with you partially… but only if you emphasize that it is the DARK witchcraft which is bad. Because LoTR certainly condones using magic to hurt your enemies.
Yes. That is absolutely what I meant. Sorry to be unclear. You can see my reply to @Cassie for more about what I’m talking about.
Someone who knows LOTR better than I do! XD But I thought Morgoth created the balrogs… what did I miss? I remember that Morgoth got some of the other Valar to revolt with him (am I the only one who thought it was cool that Tolkien used music as his symbolism?) but I didn’t know the balrogs existed back then!
Ha! Music is an awesome symbolism. Balrogs are just Maia created by Eru. Only one Valar, Melkor/Morgoth revolted. However, he convinced several Maia (including Sauron, the Balrogs, and others) to follow him. Here’s the best explanation you’ll find: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxgsxaFWWHQ. There’s a link to part 2 at the end. Have fun!
Thanks! 🙂
as said by many people you cant judge a book by its cover you need to read it and develop your own opinion. in harry potter one of the classes he takes at school is called “Defense against the dark arts” it is as the title says defense not assault.
I wouldn’t say that the Palantíri were evil, though… they were created by the elves (Feanor?) in Valinor… would Manwe have let them make something evil there?
The main thing I’d term ‘witchcraft’ in LOTR would be what the Witch-king (and other Nazgul, I guess) does – they are Men using power which they were never supposed to have.
(Oh yeah, and Gorthaur/Sauron as the Necromancer messing around with death…)
Yeah, David, the Palantiri were made by Manwe — Sauron (or was it Morgoth originally? idk) took the one and twisted it to his purposes and made it so the other Palantiri were turned toward Mordor. 🙂 Good catch!
Aaaand, with the Nazgul, witchcraft is what got them to where they were; they used power that came from the “Dark Side,” got rich and well-known, and then paid for it with their souls. Sound familiar to anyone else?
Where is the piece with the Necromancer? I haven’t found it in the books yet, only in The Hobbit movies (epic fail, imo).
Wow, it is great to talk to all of you LOTR fans! XD
Yeah, when I’m talking about the Necromancer, I’m mainly going off the Hobbit movies. However, a necromancer by definition is someone who messes around with death (summoning dead people, etc.) Exactly the sort of thing I would term as witchcraft.
Okay. Bummer, I was hoping someone could tell me where to find more info on Sauron. He’s a really complex bad guy, so I kind of read about him so I know how to make the bad guys in stories I write. Anyway, thanks 🙂 And yep, that’s witchcraft.
I think it depends on a person’s individual convictions. For some, the Harry Potter series is sinful, others think it classic fantasy. The same can go for The Lord of the Rings. If a series brings us closer to God, we should read it, but if it doesn’t benefit our relation with God, why waste our time. I prefer not to read or watch HP, I do however love TLotR, because it was written by a Christisn author, and contains biblical truths.
I totally respect your opinion and decision, but I thought that I ought to point out that Harry Potter was ALSO written by a devout Christian author, and contains biblical truths. 🙂
Sure, and that’s why in the end it all comes down to whether an individual person finds watching/reading Harry Potter okay. Thank you though, I did not know that the author of HP was Christian.
Yup! I’m all for people making their own decisions on whether it’s personally right or wrong for themselves. Yes, she is a Christian, attends church regularly and everything. She’s just not a theologian like Tolkien, so though she has biblical truths, and very religious themes in her books, it’s not a straight up allegory like LOTR is.
Running from problems is generally not advisable.
I think Christians SHOULD read HP so they know what they’re dealing with.
The witchcraft in harry potter is NOT the type of witchcraft that is found in the world today. It is a made up fantasy, in the books if you were to harm a child as real which doctors do you would be sent to wizards jail, and it does happen in the books.
Ok guys. Can I point something out? It’s fantasy. Both books are just for fun! If you find something in either of the books or movies that goes against your personal beliefs, then by all means that’s fine. I’ve personally watched and read both of these series discussed, and I actually find them educational. Lord of the Rings is a bit hard to read, but has many valuable truths. Harry Potter, as far as the books go, teaches about good vs evil as well as tells the reader that love and friendship are the best magic that exist. Does it have wichcraft? Yes, but in the way that it is presented it is not necessarily harmful unless you let it be. Many make such things into idols. We must each know ourselves and decide what is best for our personal lives, and we must also ask God what he would have us to read and watch. Remember: even good things can be made into something bad.
I would just like to add another truth to you’re amazing list after harry was retrieved from under the trap door in the Philosophers stone he was talking to Dumbledore and he told Harry the reason he was alive, his mother had laid a spell on harry so powerful that not even the darkest curse could kill Harry and Dumbledore said that this spell was her undying love for Harry. This points out spells don’t have to come from wand, cauldrons, or tea cups it shows something so simple can be so power that it defends people from evil. That is in away why Jesus said love as he loved use unconditionally. Who knows it may be what saves a personas life… your love?.
I believe that both wizards are the same and we should avoid anything having to do with the witchcraft culture. My concern is when did we start accepting filth, occult, and witchcraft as a form of entertainment.
Having the knowledge of these books and movies does in no way enhance ones walk with God. The only effective way to fight this culture is to remove oneself from all aspects of it and learn the Word of God. That is what will teach you about evil. We are specifically told in scripture what we are to read, do and say. And our activities should always be in agreement with scripture. Nowhere in scripture does it tell us to study evil in order to know it.
God tells us to not love the world or anything in it, that we are to think on things that are righteous, and to come out of the worldly system. Is there anyone who can argue that?
If we continue to participate in the world’s love for the occult, we are putting ourselves way outside the boundaries of practicing righteousness. It is time for this generation to start running with saved instead of consorting with the lost. God will not strive with man forever.
Psalm 1:1-6 Blessed is the one who does not walk in step with the wicked or stand in the way that sinners take or sit in the company of mockers, but whose delight is in the law of the Lord,and who meditates on his law day and night. That person is like a tree planted by streams of water,which yields its fruit in seasonand whose leaf does not wither—whatever they do prospers. Not so the wicked!They are like chaff that the wind blows away. Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous. For the Lord watches over the way of the righteous,but the way of the wicked leads to destruction.
Though I completely respect your personal opinion and decision, I digress. I have read and watched the Harry Potter series countless times, and aside from the obvious of being entertained, I have found them to be valuable positive forces in my life. I have learned many things from them that have enhanced my walk with God and with His children. I know where to draw the line between reality and fiction, so I understand that the form of witchcraft practiced in reality is evil. I have learned the value of friends, and of how they should be treated. I have been able to delve into depression, PTSD, and loneliness, and how these affect people. I have learned how to love more completely. I have been able to study the growth of corrupt governments. I have learned to stand up for myself and my beliefs, even if the world attacks you. I have learned how to deal with loss, and how to help those that have suffered losses. I have learned to fight for what is right, and to fight against evil. I have learned of good vs. evil. I have learned that our capacity to love is the most important attribute God has given us, and that charity, the pure love of Christ, can overcome all evil.
I do not believe that J.K. Rowling will be damned for creating this world and writing these stories. She has saved so many lives. Their are countless stories of Harry Potter helping people overcome anorexia, depression, and even stopping them mid-suicide attempt. I believe that God places people in all walks of life – as doctors, as philosophers, as pastors, and yes, even as authors, to enhance, change, and save people’s lives. I believe that many great and important doctrinal truths can be found, or better understood, through fiction. God is everywhere, and His hand and His doctrines can be better understood through all sorts of methods. Including fantasy novels.
I would most wholeheartedly agree with you, if you could support any of this with scripture.
You are completely wrong as your opinions do not line up with God’s Word. By whose authority do you make these statements? Your own, your peers, your church? If any of those I would suggest that you find a place to get some help with your belief system.
I believe that you are leaning on your own understanding and not on the wisdom of God. You are cheating yourself.
Please seek Him and His Word. You shouldn’t need fantasy when you have the opportunity to know the deep secrets of the living God, if you so choose to serve him.
While there may be stories of HP saving lives, does that really justify the witchcraft in the books/movies, and what about the young people who got interested in witchcraft because of HP? While I agree that many doctrinal truths can be better understood through fiction, does that fiction have to include witchcraft? In my opinion there are many other fun to read fiction and nonfiction books that teach the same “lessons” you “learned” through reading HP and other fantasy books without the Witchcraft.
If J.K. Rowling really is a Christian she won’t be damned, but if she isn’t a Christian, then according to the Bible, she WILL be damned.
And whether or not she’s a Christian, she’ll have to give an account for every deed she’s done.
Yes, God can use anything or anyone to save people, but does that justify Witchcraft or anything else that’s sinful? Biblically, the answer is NO! You may think it’s “just fantasy” but what we expose ourselves to affects our beliefs and views more than we usually realize.
I believe this is where we will have to agree to disagree. Both of us have come to our conclusions after much pondering and consideration, which I greatly respect BTW, and they are firmly held convictions. I don’t think we can decide whether or not someone is a Christian. That’s between them and God. We don’t really have enough information to know if she’s genuine, but from listening to her speak about her faith, and from her life (she’s the only person to have EVER lost billionaire status because she donated so much money to charity) she certainly acts like one, regardless of your opinions about her novels. Thank you so much for taking the time to carefully respond to my comments. I’ve loved getting a chance to better understand the other perspective on this issue. So thank you! God bless! 🙂
So reading a fiction book is now considered studying evil?
That can be answered by the Word of God. You need to find out what God says about any form of evil or witchcraft. It is all through the Bible. If you studied scripture, you would know that any form of evil is to be avoided by Christians and even the appearance of evil.
My opinion is if I wouldn’t let the activity I am either reading or watching practiced in my home, it shouldn’t be read or watched. We don’t get a “grace pass” just because it is in written form or a glass screen separates us from the activity.
I hope you get some wise biblical counsel. I have never seen any Christian give up something that they loved that wasn’t Christlike that God didn’t fill that vacuum with much greater things.
Best of everything.
I agree with your second paragraph. But I don’t believe that Christians should stay away from all evil, or stop ‘consorting with the lost.’ How about when Jesus dined with the tax collectors and the beggars? How about when he spoke with the dirty sinner next to him as he died on the cross? His own words were, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” (Mark 2:17)
But back to the books/movies discussion. Romans 14:22 says, “So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves.” You don’t approve of reading books or watching movies that have mentions of worldly evil, and there’s nothing wrong with that. However, there’s nothing wrong with reading/watching them either, if your heart is in the right place.
I enjoy reading books and watching movies with magical characters and fictional worlds, and that doesn’t make me a terrible person, or someone who needs spiritual counseling, as you suggested. I love God, and would easily give up books and movies if he asked me to. I spend quality time with my friends and family at the movies. I use discretion when deciding which movies are okay and which aren’t. I don’t read books that contradict my faith, and some of those books even strengthen my faith- either through holding Biblical truths or saying something that helps me figure out worldly perspectives vs. mine.
Harry Potter isn’t evil. Lord of the Rings isn’t sinful. The only way they become those things is if that is what you make it.
On a side note, try to cool your writing voice down a little. I don’t think you’re trying to, but your writing tone takes on a ‘holier-than-thou’ edge when you say things like “if you studied the Bible” or “get some Biblical counsel.” Just some advice from one child of God to another. 🙂
Thank you for your response. I stand corrected.
Man’s purpose on earth is to glorify God in all ways. Jesus glorified God in all that he did. When He dined with the sinners and tax collectors, His purpose wasn’t to be a part of their system, but to point them to God.
Suggestions that something good comes out of Harry Potter is in direct opposition to God’s teaching on witchcraft and practice of reading material such as that cannot be supported by scripture.
But what I see here again is that your arguments are based on your opinions. And when that is the case and your activities are determined by you as to what is good and evil, you end up being your ultimate authority without scripture.
This is a huge problem for this generation. The generations prior to you have reduced Jesus to a friend who isn’t really concerned with our private activities. But He is the same God and as much as He is loving, He is wrathful. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. If He had people killed for the participation in any form of witchcraft, His view hasn’t changed. It is just our viewpoint has changed.
Wish you the best.
Thanks for clearing that up! I agree. Jesus should be involved with every part of our lives, not just the religious parts. I haven’t read or watched Harry Potter, because I don’t feel comfortable reading about or watching it. But I’m not going to judge others about it. If they’re reading or watching Harry Potter while compromising their faith, that’s a problem between them and God. But as long as I know where I stand within my own boundaries, and as long as I’m still listening to the Holy Spirit, I’m able to read fictional books or watch movies.
A lot of answers to questions like this will be opinionated. I think wearing shorts is staying modest. Other people think girls can’t be modest without a long skirt. I don’t believe God will condemn me for using the creativity and imagination he gave me by reading or writing about fictional magic. Other people think any mention of magic is from the devil. There’s really no universally perfect line between right and wrong, and everyone’s convictions are different. I can read/watch fantasy things and still keep my mind focused on God, while others have difficulty with this and should establish their own movie/book rules between themselves and God.
God bless! 🙂
I was so excited to see this! I was not allowed to read Harry Potter for a long time because the content can be kind of dark. I read them this year and I love them! However, my dad is a pastor and I attend a Christian school. A lot of people told my siblings and myself that we would fall into witchcraft and suddenly they doubted our spirituality. First off, that’s a little too far. Just because I read a fantasy book with magic does not mean that I’m going to suddenly start practicing witchcraft. Secondly, the people who got mad had never read the books. This got me super curious. I ended up doing a project on it and presented it to many students, parents, teachers and pastors. The question was where do we as Christians draw the line in entertainment in regards to controversial issues such as magic? The answer is, you have to decide between yourself and God, but don’t push it on other people. We are all created differently and we all have different opinions. That is why we have so many denominations of churches. We can’t agree. Really it is a personal choice.
Personally, I love the books and movies. I found a deep theological understanding to the books. I ended up contacting a lady named Danielle Tumminio. She taught a course at Yale called “Religion and Harry Potter.” She also wrote a few books. Check her out: http://danielletumminio.com/?page_id=9
I struggled too with people being very controversial over this. They love Narnia, which very specifically says “The Lion, the WITCH, and the Wardrobe,” and yet they freak out over Harry Potter. My school is putting on Mary Poppins next year and the story is different from the movie and has a lot more magical elements, but the director judged my sister and pretty much condemned her to eternal punishment because she read Harry Potter. She has never read the books. She is only going off of the propaganda that she has heard.
My advice is talk it over with your parents. Ask for their reasons why. Maybe you could read them in a mindset that you want to see what everyone gets upset over. But please don’t judge us.
I have more resources that show the debate. Comment if you want some. I’ve studied both sides of this argument in depth.
I don’t think you can change my mind but I’d love to hear more. 🙂 Witchcraft is a real thing that really happens today and I think we can all agree that it’s evil. The difference is that Narnia and The Lord of the Rings show witchcraft as something to be shunned (everyone who practices it ends up dead) while Harry Potter praises it as something good when in reality it is very dangerous.
I love debating and I’m totally okay if I can’t change your mind. The biggest point I want people to get is not to judge others and put them down because they enjoy that element of fantasy.
The Lord of the Rings has Gandalf who is a wizard as well. He’s alive in the end. Also Narnia has two defining chapters called “Deep Magic from the Dawn of Time” and “Deeper Magic from Before the Dawn of Time.” These are considered the greatest chapters in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.
The thing to understand with Harry Potter is that it was written purposefully to have Christian themes. In fact, J.K.Rowling said in an interview “To me [the religious parallels have] always been obvious,” she said. “But I never wanted to talk too openly about it because I thought it might show people who just wanted the story where we were going.”
I do agree that some people take it way too far and think everything has some religious significance. I read one guy who thought that a creature that Harry rides in one book was supposed to represent Jesus riding into Jerusalem on a donkey. There is nothing in that part to even spark that possibility. That was just too far. However, I agree that many themes match. When reading Harry Potter, you can’t be looking to say witchcraft is necessarily bad, it is just how it is used. It goes the same for anything. Is a gun bad? No, it is an object. However it can be used for destructive purposes. But really, it is a fantasy book. If you have a tendency to fall into practicing witchcraft, then don’t read the books. But if not, I suggest read them. I think everyone, no matter if they are against the books or for them, should read them. You can’t go into a debate without knowing the material of your opponent.
Witchcraft is not really comparable to a gun. If you want to stop murders, you don’t ban guns, you allow their public use, and severely punish those who use them wrongly. Witchcraft is different. There is absolutely nothing ok with witchcraft. It messes with evil, spiritual realms that are more powerful than we are. People can do seemingly “good” things with witchcraft, but it is all evil. It was strongly opposed in the Bible. Also, consider these verses. Mathew 7:22,23.
Noice…
I agree with you 100%
Whew boy Seth, this could start a gun debate! XD
Hey I’d be up for a gun debate! 😜
Yeah, me too!
I see where you’re coming from. And just to be clear, I’m not saying you or your parents have done anything wrong. There is no “thou shalt not watch Harry Potter” commandment. (-: All I’m saying is that the themes in HP are dangerous.
I think you’re missing the point. Do you agree that witchcraft is evil? Because it is. People who dabble in that and try to use it open themselves up for all kinds of horrible consequences. In the Lord of the Rings and Narnia, some characters (Gandalf, Sauron, Aslan, etc.) have magical abilities but those abilities are innate in them. They use them just like you use your arms, it is just part of who they are. Harry Potter shows ordinary humans becoming “initiated” in magic and witchcraft, makes it look like a good idea to pursue that stuff when in fact it is horribly satanic. The LOTR doesn’t encourage that kind of stuff unless the Witch King of Angmar is your role model. (-:
Does that make sense? Witchraft is used to a slight extent in LOTR but it is always by the bad guys and it always kills them or drives them insane (see Saruman and Denethor or Smeagoul). HP shows people engaging in these magical practices. Again, I’m not saying you’ve done something wrong. All I’m saying is that there are dangerous themes in HP and you should not watch or read the series unless you’re prepared to fight it. I personally have no interest in them at all but it’s okay that you do.
There are dangerous themes around us everyday but we have to choose how we see them and how we respond to them. To me HP is nothing more than a great literary piece and it looks cool in collectors edition on my bookshelf. I agree that witchcraft is bad and is used for evil purposes. However I believe that people sometimes go a bit overboard in fighting against HP. The books have strengthened my faith in God. There is one scene where Harry sacrifices his life. The emotional journey he goes through made me understand more of what Christ must have gone through. You can’t just look at the witchcraft part of it and define the book by that. You have to go deeper and look at it with a different perspective.
I´ve read your comments, and find them all fascinating. I did notice that nobody addressed the issue of alternate realities (or at least I didn´t see it). In fiction the author creates his/her own universe, which obeys their own rules, to suit whatever purpose they´re trying to accomplish. Sure, there´s alot of book settings which follow rules quasi-identical to the rules our real world follows, but none of them are actually real, because, duh, it´s a fictional story.
This rule applies even to fictional stories that we find positive as Christians, like the Narnia series written by respected theologian, C.S. Lewis. Even within the Narnia series there is magic and bad moral choices committed by the good guys. However, the Narnia series is more acceptable in its correlation with our real reality, because after all, it is a story based on the Bible´s narrative. With this series it´s easy to sift the profound truths from the narrative setting.
Both HP and LOTR have a twist of sorts in their settings, changing the place of the series, and they both have less-than-acceptable content for us to extrapolate (which you guys have already pointed out in other comments). Here´s a crazy idea; maybe in the authors’ fictional, unreal reality, it´s not actually morally wrong to do the things that would be unacceptable in our real reality. And if that theory is right, then it´s our job, as wise Christians to extrapolate the good teachings in these books from the fictional ones.
I´m not sure on this one, though, what do you guys think?
I love it! I think you’re right on track!
the author does create an imaginary world that is kept secret from the humans because if humans in the story found out about the world they would try to learn magic so they could use it to become rich and powerful. in order to discover the biblical truths in Harry Potter you need to read the books, when i read them i found lots of biblical messages in it. i definitely wouldn’t recommend it to a child who cannot define the difference of reality to fiction. the books do have a strange twist of irony which i really liked but it builds the story up to be whole and in the end it is light with the secret world cleansed of darkness.
I believe it’s all based on whether or not you can draw the line between fiction and reality. Witchcraft, practiced in reality, is evil. But this is fiction. A fun story, with deep theological and moral elements and lessons. I would never practice any sort of REAL witchcraft, but dressing up in full cosplay as a character from Harry Potter for Halloween? I love it! But I know where the line is. In the end, I believe that there is never a time when I (or anyone else, for that matter) should say “No good christian should ever (insert secular question here)”, because it truly is between you and God. Pray about it, seek differing opinions, and come to your own understanding and conclusion. Just don’t judge or condemn others based on what they have understood and concluded. That goes both ways. 🙂
I also wrote this below, but thought I would put it up here, as well, since it explains my thought process in a little more detail.
I have read and watched the Harry Potter series countless times, and aside from the obvious of being entertained, I have found them to be valuable positive forces in my life. I have learned many things from them that have enhanced my walk with God and with His children. I know where to draw the line between reality and fiction, so I understand that the form of witchcraft practiced in reality is evil. I have learned the value of friends, and of how they should be treated. I have been able to delve into depression, PTSD, and loneliness, and how these affect people. I have learned how to love more completely. I have been able to study the growth of corrupt governments. I have learned to stand up for myself and my beliefs, even if the world attacks you. I have learned how to deal with loss, and how to help those that have suffered losses. I have learned to fight for what is right, and to fight against evil. I have learned of good vs. evil. I have learned that our capacity to love is the most important attribute God has given us, and that charity, the pure love of Christ, can overcome all evil.
I do not believe that J.K. Rowling will be damned for creating this world and writing these stories. She has saved so many lives. Their are countless stories of Harry Potter helping people overcome anorexia, depression, and even stopping them mid-suicide attempt. I believe that God places people in all walks of life – as doctors, as philosophers, as pastors, and yes, even as authors, to enhance, change, and save people’s lives. I believe that many great and important doctrinal truths can be found, or better understood, through fiction. God is everywhere, and His hand and His doctrines can be better understood through all sorts of methods. Including fantasy novels.
I agree with you! (Love your name by the way!) And God can use ANYTHING to speak to a broken world. I mean he turned a blood stained cross into an empty tomb, so why not speak through a fictional book series?
Thanks! Exactly! Though I wish that everyone struggling with suicidal thoughts would turn to the Bible, unfortunately, many have not been raised to even think of doing that. So God has placed others to be able to help those people.
just a note, suicidal people often have a lot more going on than just needing Jesus. From personal experience there’s more to it than meets the eye. But Jesus does heal and once their problems have been professionally treated, then they should turn to the Bible. It’s not always possible for them emotionally to do so before! 🙂
I am so sorry! I realize in retrospect, that I didn’t mention that. But you are 100% correct. Thank you.
no problems! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Exactly! And HP can be a way of connecting/getting to know these people so that you can show them God! Have those conversations, get them in church!
I have read harry potter and thoroughly enjoyed it. it is dark, yes, but there is light in it. at Hogwarts (wizarding school) they learn how to use magic in the proper way. the bad guys in the story are all the people who used magic wrongly. I have also read lord of the rings. Gandalf is a wizard who uses magic, yet he is still a good guy and most Christians allow Lord of the Rings in their home. it is all a matter of opinion and if you disagree that is your choice.
Ps. if you are allowed and haven’t read it i would recommend it 😉
It may not be quite as classic a tale of good vs. evil as LOTR is, but that’s because Jo is dealing with humans, where Tolkien deals with races. Tolkien is also a Christian theologian, where Jo is a Christian. So yeah, her lines are greyed a little bit more due to the agency that characters practice, but it’s still a brilliantly written tale of good vs evil. I am a devout Christian, and can draw the line between fiction and reality. I love Harry Potter. Nothing’s ever going to change that. But does that mean I’m not righteous? Not a “good” Christian? Most definitely — NOT. God is first in my life, always. I love and praise Him, and live my life in the manner He has instructed me too. And I have no moral qualms with reading, enjoying, and learning from, the amazing series that is Harry Potter.
I have read and watched Harry Potter (multiple times) and am currently working on reading Lord of the Rings. I have never viewed fantasy as a means to actually “do/practice magic.” I just see it as something fun and entertaining and something I usually connect with or find meaning in. Like how this one character in the end overcomes his fears of standing out and takes a stand for something and becomes a leader. And his bravery ends up inspiring others to stand up for what is right. Or that people can overcome tragedy. Or just because you make a mistake, it doesn’t mean you can’t keep going on the path you were on, that you can be forgiven. Or that there is always hope. (I could go on.) It is the same with Narnia. Narnia has more symbolism for me obviously, but I enjoy many fiction books. (Really that is a good portion of what I read.) But a lot of times I use them as connectors to get to know people, things I love and share with friends, things I can personally love. I believe it is really a personal choice (or one you have to listen to your parents for.) I mean my parents are cool with me reading and watching Harry Potter, but don’t want me to watch other movies that have no magic in them. (And since I am 18 they have said I can, just to not have my younger siblings watch, but I have made it this far on there decisions and am ok!) God may put it on one persons heart that Harry Potter (or anything really) isn’t something they should do. But someone else it’s not a problem for them. This is something I have with an open fist. I am open to discussion and it isn’t a You must agree with this sort of thing. (Like the fact that Jesus died and rose again. That is a closed fist thing. And you aren’t convincing me otherwise.) Ok I hope that makes sense! I am tired and tend to ramble on!
The difference between LOTR and HR is that HR supports witchcraft. That being said it really depends on what God has put on your heart. Does reading the books or watching the books affect you negatively? It had a negative affect on me when I watched the movies and I got a weird feeling so I stopped. If it doesn’t hinder your relationship with God and have a negative affect on you life than enjoying HR is fine. You just have to be on guard. I watched the movies (half of them) right after I had gotten back from a mission trip and I noticed that my self-esteem was low after watching the movies. It was a small, barely noticeable difference, yet I realized that my relationship with Christ was being attacked without my realizing it (that might be contradicting…oh well). With things like HR, you should be on your guard but that doesn’t mean that HR is bad.
I have never read either Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings. I don’t really like fantasy. It’s just not my thing. My mom tried to get me to read Narnia as well, didn’t care for it.
I have read a lot of comments on this page, and some of you said that there are morally good things in both the Rings and Potter series.
Like I said, I have never read either.
But here’s my advice to you, Olivia. When you read a book, is it the kind of book you’d want to read if Jesus was sitting next to you and reading over your shoulder?
Is it a book that glorifies Him?
Do you feel good after you read it?
Do you put a wall over your heart because you can’t relax?
Does it make you a better person?
These are just some questions to ask yourself when you read a book. I hope this helps!
Hi Dolly your right about if Jesus was looking over your shoulder as read you would want him to see that you was reading something that glorifies him. I Have not read Harry Potter or Lord of the Ring I don’t thing they would be good. The two last books I read was doing hard things and start here, and I read my bible everyday. I only read books that glorifies God and who he is.
Thanks Nathan! The Bible is the best book we could read anyway!
I was never allowed to read/watch Harry Potter growing up but I had read pretty much everything else one summer and so I read it anyway (that’s the only conviction I have regarding reading the books.) I think many parents don’t think it through because they don’t know. They haven’t read HP but they most likely haven’t read LOTR either, they just know everyone else has and they’ve seen the movies. Honestly, I think HP and LOTR are quite similar. Except in Harry Potter there is literally no “gray” area of good vs. evil. Like there is the metaphor of “tearing your soul in half by killing another person” because yeah, it does damage you. And there’s also the major theme of how “love conquers any trial” and not Disney’s true love idea. 🙂 I’d say just straight up ask your parents about it. Cause if I had asked mine they probably would’ve said yes anyway. Another thing about HP and LOTR is that when there is more darkness, it is easier to see the light, is it not? The “witchcraft” itself in either book is not really any different, I mean HP spells are in Latin so ya learn something 😉 and both Gandalf and Harry are super into sacrificing themselves for their friends.
I agree with you on the fact that many times people pass judgment before they ever read it. Parents should read Harry Potter and LOTR before they tell their kids not to read it, and not base their convictions off of other people’s.
I think not letting christians watch or read harry potter is stupid if you won’t let your for example to watch those stuff because you fear they might start copying the witchcraft that they do in the books and movies (which is not real) then that just means you yourself believe that witchcraft is true
Hi there Perzeus (cool name, btw) I think witchcraft is a real thing. A real, evil trick of the devil. Why else would God have told the Israelites not to participate in it?
He never told them “Don’t try to jump off a cliff and fly.” Why? Because it’s impossible. But He did tell them “Let no one be found among you who … practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.” (Deuteronomy 18:10-11).
Just a thought…
Witchcraft is real. Dark magic is very real. But, you’re right, Perzeus, the witchcraft in Harry Potter is so different than that of any practicing wicca, that it would not be possible to copy it to any ill effects.
a lot of people think witchcraft is real and a lot doesn’t so yeah
Yeah, you’re right. I don’t know if witchcraft as people think about it is real, but I know wholeheartedly that there are evil spirits. Without trying to start a different debate, ouija boards are a perfect example of this, in my opinion.
I meant the witchcraft that they do in the books and movies
Hmmm. So how is it different?
I love fantasy.And LOTR and HP are two of my favorite stories. I was not allowed to read HP until I turned twelve, so I know why some parents do not allow their children to read HP. But now being fifteen and having read LOTR 11 times and HP multiple times also, I believe LOTR to be darker than HP. I think LOTR is a better story, but the concept of wickedness and darkness in LOTR is darker and just more evil than HP. I feel that some people do not like HP because it’s entire story is based on witchcraft, but they do not realize just how much magic and wizardry is in LOTR. Personally they are both great stories and as long as you do not look at these stories as supporating witchcraft, which is stupid, then it is fine to read these books.
This is such a great question! To be honest, I have avoided thinking about this until now. I’m still not totally sure how I feel about this (it will probably change), but here’s what I’m thinking now. I have never watched or read HP, but I have seen some of the previews. I have not read LOTR, but I have watched the movies. I will start at the base of the books, the authors. Tolkein was a Christian who had a Christ centered message. In his writing are “hidden meanings/representations” (I could not think of the proper writing terms for this 😉 ) of biblical people, characters, concepts, and lessons. It does gave some darkness and scariness, but it is used to represent sin and the darkness of the Enemy, etc. I think the magic of the wizards can represent the power existing in the spiritual realm (most of which obviously belongs to Christ, who is represented by Gandalf).
Not for HP, like I said I have never seen or read it. However, the author, J. K. Rowling, is a self-professed witch (read this short article: http://empirenews.net/j-k-rowling-admits-she-wrote-harry-potter-to-convert-kids-to-wicca/). Thus, her messages are not godly at all. Some may sound good, or even actually be basically good (like someone said, Harry sacrificing for his friends), but I’m sure there must be plenty of “worldly wisdom”. From the previews I have seen for HP movies, they seem to be much darker than LOTR and just have an unjustifiable darkness.
In conclusion, I would have to say this could be thought of as a matter on conscience. Reading HP could be viewed as a situation like eating meat sacrificed to idols (kind or a reference to that article above). However, I think that I do not want to open the doors of my heart to the influence of the writings of someone who practices witchcraft. As my mom explained to me, Satan works little by little, using things that appear good and slowly putting more and more evil into them that you think “I saw the last one and it was fine, so this will be fine”. Remember, he disguises himself as an angel of light. I want there to be a purpose to my entertainment. Basically, I would say you need to make the choice – pray about it, search the scriptures, maybe seek counseling/opinions of other mature believers. We should never take the responsibility of choosing our entertainment (books, movies, TV, music) lightly. It can be used for great good or great evil.
J K Rowling is a self-professed witch?????? Ok, that sealed the deal for me, I’m never reading/watching Harry Potter. =P Thanks for the post!
She’s not. That is absolute falsehood. She IS, however, a self-professed CHRISTIAN. That link doesn’t even GO anywhere, and Jo has said time and TIME again that her books do NOT lead children to witchcraft.
Really? I didn’t even click on the link. =P
Sorry, I was mistaken. I need to check things out better before I say them. Please read my reply above, if you can.
She is not a witch! Oh my goodness!
Also, Tolkien often said that his writing wasn’t meant to be christian themed, and that it was simply a story from which people can pull what they wish.
Haha yeah I know about Tolkien…I haven’t read LOTR either. ;-P
you need to!
I’m sorry about the link – it worked this morning but the article is gone now. I took the link down.
I was mistaken. The reason I thought she was a self-professed witch was because my sister (who must have been mistaken at the time) said that she understood that was the claim Rowling made. Then I saw that article and assumed it to be true.
As far as her profession to be a Christian….it just doesn’t seem to be legitimate. Remember, anyone can profess Christ, but aren’t always genuine (Mathew 7:21).
I think a good way to view the two books is this: how are they impacting the world and being used in the world? That is where there is a huge distinction. I really like this article I just found. (http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/onlinediscipleship/harrypottercontroversy/elliott_richardabanes.aspx – hopefully this link will work 😉 ). Here’s a good quote on this thought:
“CBN.com: There are some people who say children
will not be drawn to the occult just because Harry Potter practices magick and spells, but you’ve found some research that suggests otherwise. What have you found?
ABANES: Right, even J.K. Rowling has said, “Well I’ve never met anyone who has come up to me and said they
want to be a witch now.” But people are forgetting a very
commonly known fact that children like to copy what they see. Children like to copy what they think is cool. We already have examples of kids going out and buying white owls because that is Harry’s owl in the movie. We’ve seen boarding school registrations sky-rocketing in England because Harry goes to a boarding school. So we have numerous examples of this copycat behavior. And the obvious question is, where is that going to stop? Isn’t it possible that kids out there are also copying and wanting to redo the stuff they are seeing in the films or reading in the books? And we have examples of that too. That’s all I’m saying, is be careful and don’t think that your children might not copy what they are seeing and might not want to emulate their hero and the things he is doing. Obviously,
I’m not talking about flying on a broomstick, or making
a pineapple dance across a table. People often hear what I say and they think, “That is so stupid of you.” But I’m
not talking about that. I’m talking about real stuff that
real kids can really copy, and that’s what the problem is.”
Also, just because the link I used didn’t work (which wasn’t my fault) isn’t a reason to invalidate what I said (felt a little attacked for a dumb reason). And Jo has no control over where her books lead people. Many good books can be used for evil. Her intention may not be to lead people to witchcraft, but there are kids who confessed to being more curious about witchcraft and studying it after reading her books.
I profusely apologize if you felt attacked, that was not at ALL my intent. I just felt the need to defend another person who was being accused (though I understand that you were not aware) of something that wasn’t true.
Thanks for your graciousness.
I have wondered the same thing. My parents never let me read or watch the Harry Potter series but did let me see the Lord of the Rings. I think that it has to deal with the fact that Harry Potter’s focuses continually around wizardry and witchcraft, however in the Lord of the Rings, the focus is on the battle of good vs evil. Yes, there is some wizardry but it is not the focus or you are learning about it.
So is it just me, or does it seem like this thread is turning into one big discussion between the Potterheads vs. Anti-potterheads? lol
It’s a touch disturbing how defensive folks can be sometimes. It IS just a story after all :/
So true. I sincerely hope that my responses have kept in line with just trying to explain why I made the personal decision in my life to read the books. I do not think that everyone should always make the same decisions, and I sincerely hope no one has misinterpreted my words to be attacking anyone.
Dude no way. I wasn’t having a go at you, I promise 🙂 I was just scrolling through the comments out of interest and it struck me. Though I’m confused as to why it’s always LOTR that HP is compared to and not Narnia or something. You know, coz Narinia blurs the lines between worlds (not saying it’s wrong, just saying)
*Narnia sorry
I can’t say I know why LOTR is the target either… All my friends make them comparative points though.
Okay. Thank you. You know, I’ve kinda wondered the same thing. The blurred lines in Narnia were something I struggled with for a little bit before I came to fully accept it.
Haha yeah…
Lol that’s kinda what a DQ like this is bound to turn into. 🙂
lol, IKR? But seriously though, i’m impressed by the manners usually shown on these discussions-turned-debates 🙂
Yeah, me too!
Yeah…
yep
Olivia, this is a very interesting question.
I presume that you are still a teenager, like me. And I presume that you are still with your parents. Right now, I say to respect your parents’ convictions. Wait until you are living on your own to worry about whether or not you should read/watch the HP series.
Also, I am not allowed to watch/read Harry Potter, but am allowed to watch/read Lord of the Rings. This may be slightly biased. lol.
I do not consider myself an “Antipotterhead” or a “Potterhead”. My personal opinion on the matter is simply this: if you would like to read/watch Harry Potter, be very very very discerning. If you feel like the Holy Spirit does not want you watching or reading HP, then don’t. There are Christians out there who are involved with the fandom and are still very tight with God.
Below are some debate points for when your friends do point out that LOTR and HP are basically the same thing (these are also things you need to consider. I am not against you choosing to read/watch HP, but keep these in mind.) :
In HP, the difference between good and evil is blurred. The protagonists often lie, disobey authority, etc. This is more of an “ends justify the means” scenario. Also, the witchcraft in this series features actual spells and demon names (so I’ve heard).
In LOTR, the difference between good and evil is more set. And the magic here is completely made up.
I honestly hope this helps.
TL;DR: Respect your parents’ wishes, listen to the Holy Spirit, and be extremely discerning.
Hey, I hope I didn’t offend you with that comment of mine about the “Potterheads vs. Anti-potterheads”. =) Also, I see that this is your first comment….welcome to the Reb! =)
Welcome!
Thanks, both of you!! 🙂
And Josh, you didn’t offend me. I noticed that there were a lot of comments on here supporting your earlier comment. I just wanted to make it clear that I honestly don’t have a problem with Christians reading HP as long as they have their facts and a lot of discernment. 🙂
In my opinion reading either is down to your personal conviction on the matter. If you feel that by reading a particular book that your faith might be weakened or that you might be led astray then you can choose not to read it.
I’d also like to add that it’s nice to see so many well read Tolkien fans 😉
Yes! Tolkien fans unite! 🙂
And I think you hit the nail on the head here.
I’m not allowed to read/watch either HP or LOTR, but I have friends who’ve read/watched both and I’ve found that reading/watching these books/movies CAN lead into getting more and more interested in Satanism, Demonism, witchery, etc. It might not actually lead into these things, but it can spark interest that could lead into satanism. It may seem pure and innocent, but that’s how Satan wants us to see it. He wants us think that just because they’re written by “Christian” authors, they’re ok.
I think we need to be aware of Satanism, but we shouldn’t get involved in “studying” it. My Youth Pastor’s wife is related to some people that were into witchery for a while, and they got into it by “studying” it.
Yes! I think so often, if we see a “Christian” author, we automatically assume that all his/her work must be “Christian” as well. In today’s society, the word “Christian” is used very loosely and often is a term used to please the “Christian” crowd. Any old sinner can call himself a Christian, but only FORGIVEN and REPENTED sinners really are Christians.
Haha yeah, like the “Heaven is for Real” book/movie. “It’s Christian!” they said. “Not it’s not!” the Bible says. XD
Just curious, Josh, how is “Heaven is for Real” not Biblical? I’m not saying it is, but I’m just curious. I’ve never heard that before.
I haven’t read the book or examined its theological background for myself, but I’ve heard from people that it doesn’t align with the Bible’s description of heaven in Revelation. Correct me if I’m wrong, anyone 🙂
I’ve read it and I don’t remember reading anything out of line with Scripture. But I never studied it in depth.
Like Rachael said.
I really like this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEAko02HD5o
In a sentence (or two, or five, lol), all biblical accounts of heaven (mostly in Revelation) are focused on God and His glory (everything is for Him and His glory); there is little if any focus on Christ in the account found in the book “Heaven is for Real” or other any other “heaven” accounts. The kids talks about his family, seeing angels, flying ponies, etc. That is a huge red flag for me. The purpose of heaven is for God’s glory!
Wow, I hadn’t thought of that before. The kid talks about all this amazing stuff in Heaven… EXCEPT FOR GOD. Um, if someone had actually been to Heaven, you would think that the focus would be on God’s glory, since that is what Heaven is for. But no! Look at the wonderful ponies and angels! Come see Heaven, everyone! There are PONIES!!
🙂
Hehe the whole book can be debunked in one verse: “No one has ever gone to heaven and returned.” John 3:13 =P
Yes if they are claiming that he was actually in heaven, the claim is false, but it is possible he had some visions.
Ohh, I read that book. Wow. WOW. Someone please tell me how this got popular among Christians?? lol
So what about it isn’t Christian? I haven’t read/watched it, so I’m really curious.
So it’s basically the story of how this six-year-old boy “went to heaven and back”. He tells the story in vivid detail, and says a bunch of stuff about what his “experience in heaven” was like that sorta contradicts what the Bible says about heaven. It’s pretty crazy. Apparently it’s really popular, but I thought it was a smidge too over-the-top. Also, I kept thinking about that verse that says that no eye has seen what God has prepared for those who seek him.
Okay, thanks! Yeah, stories about people seeing heaven after having “died” tend to be very questionable…
IKR????
I haven’t seen or read it but what the opinion I heard (which I really liked) was even if it isn’t true at all, it is starting conversations and getting people to talk about heaven and where they go when they die, etc. But you think it didn’t line up? (I have been meaning to watch the movie but haven’t gotten around to it. Would love to hear you thoughts!)
Yup! Definitely a good conversation starter…check out my response to Seth Yoder. =)
why aren’t you allowed to watch LOTR?? it’s the best thing on earth and Tolkien was a Christian! (he and C.S. Lewis were really good friends!) My family loves LOTR and we don’t stand for anything even remotely satanic. Even the Hunger Games or Pirates of the Caribbean.
I should probably just clarify my comment below. I totally realize that if your family has a preference on this, you should respect it! I don’t want to be a stumbling block to you or anyone else’s family who has rules about this! So I probably should have re-worded that!
Ummm your faith would have to be very weak for you to fall into that kind of temptation after reading something like LOTR and/or Harry Potter. Both of those books barely brush on reality of witchcraft. And there isn’t really satnaism in any of those books. Satan only has as much power over you as you allow him, you always have a choice to allow yourself to take action into sin. Bit if you are a strong Christian then reading the books def wouldn’t make you fall into that. Or at least it shouldn’t. *sorry for poor spelling my tablet is jumping and I can’t see if it has read my typing correctly. Ugh.
HP isn’t written by a Christian btw. So I understand for some Christian kids that alone is a no no.
I’m not allowed to watch Harry Potter either, probably because of the witchcraft and sorcery, which could lead to bad thoughts. (Depends on the vulnerability of the person) I’m not allowed to read it because of that, or because of the content. I am not actually quite sure. But what I do know is that I probably wouldn’t want to watch those movies and read those books even if I were allowed too. I was into LOTR, and the Hobbit (aka any Tolkien books) for a long time, but now I’ve pretty much shifted my interest from story books to Theology, Philosophy, and Apologetics.
But to answer your question if Christians should read those books/ watch the movies. Really there is no profane content in the movies, or anything which I’ve heard that is wrong except the sorcery and witchery. I wouldn’t go as far to say that we aren’t allowed to watch it as Christians, (unless someone gives me strong Biblical proof otherwise) but if that movie causes you to stumble, then don’t watch it. I think that’s where we can say it is wrong. If we are putting before our eyes things that we know will make us stumble. But nonetheless we should all obey our parents regardless of whether the movie/books can harm us!
Liam
Great comment Liam your right by saying it could cause us to stumble.
Good thoughts! Anything with sorcery and witchcraft should always be avoided. Even little things like reading your horoscope. I’m also wary of the Eragon series (i think that’s how you spell it) I read it and loved the first book and it just got worse after that. So I like your perspective on this! And you should try Tolkien again!! 🙂
I just don’t have the time to read Tolkien again. Though I have read the Hobbit 5 times, the LOTR series 2 times, and the Silmarillion. So I was into it before, but now that has kinda died. :/
But what can you do? 😛
I totally understand! I have books like that, they just lose their interest after a while.
I agree with what others are saying, that you have to be discerning in the things you watch/read. It’s impossible to draw a perfect line between “evil” and “pure” that all Christians will agree on, so in some cases you’ll just have to figure out what your own convictions are.
I, for one, love Tolkien’s works. The Lord of the Rings has a special place in my heart, as does The Hobbit. On the other hand, I’m not allowed to read or watch Harry Potter.
It’s hard to figure out what’s acceptable for magical stories and what’s not. The Lord of the Rings to me is a beautiful, creative, and imaginative work of art. Brandon Sanderson’s books (And many others!) are the same way. I write fantasy like that myself, actually. That kind of fiction isn’t bad to me. However, Harry Potter, while being an intricately woven and fun series, does have that darker side to it. Lots of people talk about God’s power, but many forget that Satan has great power, too. ‘Witchcraft’ and ‘dark magic’ DO exist, and it’s for real. So the whole spell-casting and dark edge thing in the books lose some of their taste for me.
This is just my opinion, though. I know many other strong Christians who aren’t as affected by the darkness or lightness of magic, and I know others who just can’t deal with magic at all. It all depends on what you personally feel is right, while keeping your faith in check.
Hey! Jc, do you believe that Satan has power that God can’t control? Like he can do certain things that God has no control over? Or do you just believe that he only has the power that God has given him? Just curious, I promise I’m not trying to start a debate or anything! =)
Hmm, good question. I definitely believe that God has control over everything, but Satan has extreme power as well. If he were some weakling of a bad guy, there wouldn’t be any power behind the temptations and lies of the world and they’d be easy to resist. I think God could definitely (and someday will, once and for all!) destroy all of Satan’s power easily. But for now, he wants us to have a choice in the matter, even if we choose wrong and let Satan’s power cheat us of his salvation. I think he’s allowing Satan to throw obstacles in our way, like he did with Job, and he just uses those obstacles to either bring us closer to him or bring others closer to him until the day he destroys the enemy. What are your thoughts? No rush, have a relaxing break away from this crazy website! 😛
Ok! Thanks, the break was great! I agree for the most part…I mean, read Job chapter 1 (2??) if you need a good glimpse at the sovereignty of God over satan. =P
What do you think?
But I’ll jump in 🙂 Seeing as God made Satan, He obviously gave him any power he has, and therefore Satan has no power that God can’t control, even if God gave him some areas that he has strong influence over. But I haven’t really researched, so (like always) take what I say with a grain of salt.
Agreed! =)
Oh, I’ll warn you, I’m taking a break from the Reb so I might not be able to answer for a while, sorry. =)
You write. Nice to meet another girl who loves writing made up stories. I LOVE TO WRITE!!!
Awesome!!! Writing totally rocks!
Yea i love to find creative ways to put Jesus in my stories.
I realize I’m a little late to the party here, but I’ll chip in. This issue reminds me of what Paul was dealing with in 1 Corinthians 8, where he addresses the question of whether Christians should eat meat that was sacrificed to idols. I highly encourage everyone to read those chapters.
If I could try to boil it down to the main points, what power does an idol have? Similarly, what power does witchcraft have over you as a child of God? Can magic beat God? Of course not! Even so (getting further in chapter 8), if your conscience is weak and watching those movies would “defile” your conscience, then by all means don’t do so! And if someone around you thinks that it is wrong, certainly don’t watch, lest you “make [your] brother stumble.”
To sum it up, watching a movie with witchcraft is not wrong in and of itself. However, it can quickly and easily become that way. If you or someone else could be made to stumble because of watching it, then it does become wrong. So to some extent, like others have said, it’s about personal conviction. I’ve never seen/watched Harry Potter, nor do I plan to, simply because I don’t see it as a valuable use of my time.
(P.S., as others have said, Harry Potter has caused some people to pursue witchcraft, and I by no means condone that. I’m not addressing the movie itself or any lifestyles or actions associated with it; only the act of watching the movie.)
I agree. I have never watched or read the books but i don’t plan to. Love the scripture references:)
Thank you for using the bible to back it up.
Welcome back, Nathan!
Congratulations on your graduation, I think?
Yeah, I graduated last Saturday! How… did you know? o_O
Well… not to seem stalkerish or anything, but when you disappeared I talked to a couple of people who have mentioned emailing you. So I asked them how you were doing… And wow, that sounds really stalkerish. Anyway, so one person mentioned that you were graduating last weekend.
But I already remembered that you’re graduating — we were talking about college the one time, remember?
And I swear I wasn’t stalking you! 😛
Hahaha that makes sense. And don’t worry, I can be far more stalkerish. XD
Whew, I thought I was the only one!
Congrats!
That verse is really helpful in this. Thanks for adding that.
You know I think in my church the most common girl’s name is Hana.
Anyway thanks for being a part of the Rebelution community!
Haha it must be a good name!
i think its the state of your heart. So if your heart is weak to a sin then you should stay away
@nathantasker:disqus has an excellent point! I highly agree with his post!
I additionally would like to say that there is something to the overall message of the movie/book. For instance, magic in Lord of the Rings isn’t the whole story, nor is the Harry Potter series only about magic. The question becomes: what is the purpose of the magic here? Is it (in a broader sense) glorifying to God? Is the use of magic going to help the story shape up to a point where God is glorified? That isn’t to say the end justifies the means, but to say that nothing in and of itself is evil (Mark 7:14-23) but the way it is used determines whether it is a proper use of magic.
Now that said, I would agree with what people have been saying here. Definitely worth reading the insight people have. Also, I would like to say that I was never allowed to watch the Harry Potter series (or read the books) because of the darker feel of the literature — most of you know what I mean, getting a sense of evil coming from the book… but I digress. 🙂
I’m a big fan of Harry Potter and…um…I’m ashamed to say that I’ve never really gotten past Bilbo’s birthday party at the beginning of LOTR…(I liked The Hobbit, though!)
But in terms of being okay to watch/read it or not, I agree with Nathan Tasker on the subject. It’s a matter of personal conviction, like most of the people in the comments are saying, and you should definitely listen to your parents. Witchcraft/sorcery is wrong and Satanic, and DON’T EVER DO IT.
But reading a middle-grade fantasy novel about magic is not the same as openly practicing witchcraft/sorcery, and I’m of the opinion that as long as it doesn’t cause you or anyone else around you to stumble, it’s all right to read/watch it. It is, after all, just a book, a story. Just like LOTR is a book or story.
Also, just a side note, in the HP world, magic cannot directly raise people from the dead, and it’s very clearly a fantasy novel.
Finally someone who has actually read it! And great point, too. 🙂
I really dont think we should watch it because nothing in the moviee is real.
Could you please explain what you mean by “nothing in the movie is real”? Should we not watch it just because the story is fiction? Jesus used made-up stories; he called them parables.
I’m honestly not trying to attack you, just clarifying. 🙂
Their is way too much things in it i do not agree with. My vote would be no.
Haven’t read either one, so really can’t say anything on this subject. 😉
Lord of the Rings is clearly good against bad. The Harry Potter is about magic (actually, witchcraft) I don’t read or watch them, furthermore I have no desire. But I am a Lord of the Rings fan! So Harry Potter is basically bad against bad (i know, it sounds weird) and Lord of the Rings is good against bad. Hope this is helpful!
Narnia is written in a fantasy world but clearly depicts the salvation message! I would feel totally comfortable reading Narnia and LOTR with Jesus next to me. In fact, I feel like he is portrayed subtly, yet clearly in each book. Yet I would not feel the same way with Harry Potter. It isn’t a book that glorifies good, rather it glorifies darkness.
It is a matter of personal conviction, like all those “gray” areas, but I do feel like there is a very clear difference between LOTR and Narnia with Harry Potter and I personally feel it very unfair to even compare them! So that’s my spiel 😀
Yeah I’ve never seen LOTR or HP, so I don’t really know if they compare or not. I guess I’ll take your word for it. 🙂
I’m a huge fan of LOTR, but i haven’t seen HP. My parents have and they don’t let us watch it for the reasons I put down 🙂 I, personally, think nothing compares to LOTR, Tolkien was a genius. 😀 Appreciate your thoughts on this!
This is what comes to mind. A little out of context, but mostly applicable…
Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. 15 For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died. 16 So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.
20 Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. 21 It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble. 22 The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.
Romans 14:13-23
A helpful thought to consider whenever making decisions on entertainment. Would you sit down and listen/watch/read this song/movie/book with Jesus? Would he be pleased? Would your favorite parts be pleasing to His sight? Would he be honored by the words used? Would he laugh at the same jokes as you? Would the focus through out the song/movie/book bring him glory? Because He IS there listening/watching/reading with you.
So right Emma Berry. We need to be careful want we watch,read, and listen to because God is watching!
When I was in 4th grade, all my school friends had read all the HP books and were anxiously awaiting the release of the last couple movies. I wasn’t allowed to read it at that point. Upon being asked “Why not?” my mom decided to read them for herself to be able to give me a good answer. It was a long process, but in the end, apart from the somewhat unfortunate witch/wizard setting, she decided it was a wonderful story, and there were clear ideas of good and evil, it was black and white without the ever so common “grey area”.
The reason many Christians are hesitant to read this is mostly because of the magical setting, but there are few other drawbacks. I promise you, coming from a conservative Christian family, that HP has healthy portrayals of life, friendships, etc.
On the other side, it’s not a good idea to go behind your parents backs if their convictions on this topic differ from yours. I think, as a teen, one can form their own convictions about how honoring to God certain actions are, but should follow their parents’ restrictions. Once you’re an adult/in college it’s between you and God. @joyfuljoyful:disqus makes a good point too. The verse applies two ways. The first, your parents believe you may stumble, so they are trying to protect you. The second, if you are indeed allowed to read it, the rest of your Christian friends who are not allowed to read it don’t necessarily need to know.
All in all, if treated as a work of fiction, simply entertainment, HP is fine, but it all depends on you, your parents and God.
Loved you answer Abby! My parents have done the same thing for me! They didn’t see anything wrong with me reading/watching Harry Potter. And actually one of my favorite memory’s/things my dad did for me was quickly watch all 7 Harry Potters with me so he knew the full story (And I watched with him because it was on!) and he took me to see the last movie in theaters. It was especially meaningful to me because my cousins who I had seen all the movies with me had went and seen it without me. Then my friend who we had talked about seeing the last one since 4th grade (we were juniors I believe when the last one came out) and she went and saw it on opening night without me. And I was really upset! It REALLY showed my dads love for me because even though he enjoyed it, he spent all that time and effort doing something I loved so I wouldn’t be so upset! (Ok I don’t really know why I felt compelled to tell that story…. ha ha! It is one I love a lot!
I think we need to be careful that we don’t confuse “personal convictions” with right and wrong. Right and wrong is not relative. If something is wrong, it’s wrong for everyone, everywhere, every time. If it’s right, it’s right for everyone, everywhere, every time. None of this “it’s wrong for me, but maybe not for you,” “decide for yourself whether it’s right or wrong” business.
That said, convictions come into play based on our evaluation of our own situations, weaknesses, personalities, etc. We can determine whether something will hurt or help us, and that determines whether or not a thing is right or wrong. As I said in my other comment, the simple act of watching a movie with witchcraft is not wrong. However, if you, based on your own life and heart, find that that can be a source of temptation or harm, then it IS wrong for you to watch that movie. Be sure to catch the reasoning there: it’s wrong to watch the movie only because it falls into the category of “Things that may cause me to stumble.” And doing things that cause you to stumble is wrong for everyone, everywhere, every time. Watching Harry Potter has not suddenly become “wrong” for you. It’s watching that movie in spite of knowing what it causes for you that is wrong.
Thought I’d throw that out there. Stay classy!
Well said Nathan!
I’ve read Harry Potter and the Lord of the
Rings, and in my opinion the main distinction between the two is that the story line of HP revolves around a boys practice of witchcraft, while in LOTR it is a lot less important. So I suppose you could say that in HP the hero practices something God clearly forbids, and that it’s much easier to be influenced by something when it is what the story is centered around.
A friend of mine saw this DQ and couldn’t resist jumping in 🙂 So here’s his answer:
I DO NOT think it is okay to watch Harry Potter. Here are a few reasons of mine.
If your parents say no, then it’s no. They have their reasons and you need to trust them. Like you ask God if you can do something, he can say no and not say why. It is his will and choice. BOOM.
Witchcraft is wrong. If it’s wrong, then it’s wrong. I am writing a book and there’s a small scene with a wizard, but my dad told me to go deep into it. So he just blew a few smoke bombs and stuff. But it’s not to be played with. It must be ignored and LEAVE IT ALONE!
No Christian is perfect. Not at all. Duh. Christians make mistakes, and one of them is viewing secular media. Now, I barely have seen secular media, and what I have seen is like Blue’s Clues. All I really know is that there is some EVIL stuff out there. DO NOT PLAY WITH FIRE!!!
This media could lead you away from the Devil. He is whispering in your ear, ‘It’s okay, a little won’t hurt.’ Duh, you soon will be grabbing for more and then you can’t stop yourself. It’s like alcohol. Bang, it’s so addicting. You can’t get enough of it. Why not you DON’T take a sip of it in the first place!
I know that my dad has a friend that was lead away from God because that friend was indulging in secular media, including Harry Potter. It’s a NO NO.
Think about what I had to say.
~Christopher
MimeforJesus, I LOVE mime! (I know this has nothing to do with HP, but I am excited to run into a fellow mime!) I’ve done a tiny bit of mime, and I really love it (though I prefer acting were you get to talk lol). Turns out three of the pastors at our church are professional mimes and they are some of the coolest artists ever! I love how you can combine mime and dance together. Have you seen any videos of mime performances like watch the lamb, the champion, or angels watching over me? They are definitely some of my favorites 🙂
Really? A fellow-mime? Yeah, acting where you get to talk is tons of fun, too 🙂 Oh wow, your church sounds awesome!!! Hmm, I’ve seen one version of Champion. Actually I was in one version 😉 This is how my team does it — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03w3X_MSBlo Is this how your group did it? I don’t think I’ve seen the others… can you link me to a video?
How long have you been acting?
I haven’t done a ton of mime, but I would definitely like to get better at it! I watched your team’s version of the Champion; it was awesome! You guys were amazing! This is the version I’ve seen of the Champion. This was done by Todd Farley (one of the greatest Christian mimes ever!) many many years ago. Quick warning, Mr. Farley has well…gotten into some not soo good stuff in these more recent years, so I only recommend watching his older videos 🙂
I think I successfully imbedded the youtube video, but I can’t git rid of this weird computer link.
I have done a lot of acting since 2010. I absolutely love it!
vimeo.com/124130065 I included a link to my church’s Easter play (one of my all time favorite shows). I think it might be imbedded in this comment as well.
Thank you! That video was pretty cool — I was watching and thinking “Oh wow, his isolations! And that toc was amazing! And… did he really just do that?!” It was so much fun to watch someone who understands the technique that fully! I don’t think I’ve seen his work before, so I’ll be looking into it more.
I’ll watch that movie when I have time… right now I should be going…
I am pretty sure I saw that exact LTW performance. I love when Louder then Words does Champion. Where you at Calvary Christian academy performing a couple weeks ago? I have seen you before then if you have.
Whaaaat?!?!?! A Rebelutionary from my area?!?! This is so cool! :-). Yes… I was the girl who talked about not needing to be like everyone else.
Where were you sitting?
Hello, I sat to the right I was sitting knitting. Did you go to the Graduation ceremony for the FLA last night? Where you in Rachel’s flag team?
On the right, knitting…
hmm… I don’t remember you
specifically 🙁 Yes, I was at FLA’s graduation! But I wasn’t in the flag team. I was wearing black pants and a geometric black/green/white top; I had my hair in a French braid. I don’t have glasses, and out in the lobby
area I was in the crowd, instead of off on the edges. Are you remembering me?? Can you describe yourself? I can’t place a Dinsmore, although the name
sounds familiar.
Looks like you live in S*****? (I looked you up in the phone book 😉 Do you go to the D**** Bylers often (instead of the H********* branch)? I work there… so if you do go there, we could meet up. I’ll be there today from 3:00 till we close, and then tomorrow I”ll be there until 3:30 or so, maybe later.
If you’re there, go to the bakery and ask for Laura. I’d love to meet you!
Sorry, the formatting on this is probably messed up. :/
I wasn’t at the Graduation I know several of the people who graduated from FLA and I saw a video of the flag performance. I was homeschooled for ten years so I know many homeschoolers I also did WAVE for a couple years. I do go to the D**** branch more. And yes I do live in s***** I go to the yg at the church LTW has practices at. I unfortunately can’t make it out to Bylers today but I hope you have a great shift!
Cool! So we know some of the same people! Do you know David O, Matthew T, or Colin T? They play soccer at CCA. In your yg I know Rachel B. Did you ever meet John, Laura, and Becca M? Or Nathan P? I know them too…
I figured you wouldn’t be able to be out there, but I figured it couldn’t hurt to ask! 🙂
Yep I know all three of those M’s. I know Natalie L and the others you mention I also know Micheal T and Tristan M. I am at a event with Natalie and she knows who you are. Have a great night!
Coolness! 🙂 Tell Natalie hi for me! 🙂 This is so cool, I’m talking to a fellow-Rebelutionary in my town! (I really, really have to meet you!)
Hey there! A friend would like me to invite you to his blog. It’s good, I’d advise you check it out!
http://christopher164.weebly.com/
Hey! Will you be at Michael K’s grad party tomorrow?
Ok, I have the same problem. Even my best friend, who is a year younger than me, is reading it, and keeps asking me why I can’t read it! I have read and watched Lord of the Rings (not to mention they’re my favorite books) and my parents said that they were ok.
I have been struggling with this for a while – all of my friends have been talking about it non-stop. I feel sort of left out, but I do understand why my Mom is not letting me read the HP books. Here we go! 🙂
In Harry Potter, witchcraft is a good thing. Everyone uses it. It’s a good thing, right? I do not think that witchcraft is a good thing, even if you’re supposedly using it for good. All witchcraft comes from evil. You can’t twist it to make it good. Everything in Harry Potter revolves around witchcraft. They might call it magic, which sounds a little less evil, but it’s just a mask for what’s underneath.
In Lord of the Rings, yes, there are wizards. But mainly the only actual powers you see being used is by Sauruman. Of course, he is evil. I know that Gandalf uses it a little and he is a wizard, but he doesn’t use it all the time, every day. The books don’t revolve around witchcraft. I can’t remember any spells being cast. (I’m sure there was at least one but that is nothing compared to HP). Reading HP makes you think that magic/witchcraft is a perfectly harmless thing, which it’s not.
Yeah, and LOTR isn’t based on witchcraft – it’s all just from Tolkien’s head.
I don’t know much about harry potter, but in lord of the rings the Istari (wizards) received their power from the creator, who sent them to Middle Earth to help the people combat the growing evil of Sauron. So, in the context, you are not dealing with witchcraft at all. It is power. Magic that is given to them for good, but unfortunately can also be used for evil, as Saruman showed.
Hi Jake! Welcome to the Rebelution!
Awesome comment! Welcome!
Although this may be a bit late, I too, have thoughts on this subject. Now, I personally haven’t ever read or watched HP but this is my perspective on it.
The distinction is blurry to say the least. I know people who would condemn even the use of magic in Narnia or in Tangled as “witchcraft”. Where do we draw this line? Our entertainment is chock full of magic now days! I think maybe the fact of Tolkien’s faith, the allegorical nature of LOTR, and the downplayed role of wizardry in LOTR can play a part in it’s being acceptable.
I think of it, not as a black and white issue but as a spectrum or maybe a number line like we used in 2nd grade. On one end is no magic, on the other end is blatantly Satanic media. There’s a certain point in the middle when they fade into grey and each individual or family must decide at what point to draw their line.
I’ve read and watched all the Harry potters and LOTR. What’s I see is imagination for children and adults alike. A creative idea. Why does it have to be blasphemy or satanic? My son isn’t trying to jump off the roof with a broom or worship satan. I believe it comes down to how you inform your children.
With all due respect, I disagree. It’s not a matter of how you inform your children. Witchcraft is witchcraft. It is all evil and should be avoided at all costs. We can’t justify sin by blaming it on how we inform our children. Please understand that I’m not saying watching HP is sin, I’m saying witchcraft is sin. And if there’s witchcraft in a movie, why would you ever get close to that movie?
Unless the witchcraft is bad and is viewed as such, like LOTR. I agree with Seth. Imagination is good so long as it is not viewing such things as “fine”.
Dude, it’s not even real witchcraft int he books/movies. The author made up all the potions and spells in the books. I know that there are real witches and what they do is very wrong, but the books/movies aren’t showing real spells.
It doesn’t matter if it’s “real” or not… It’s witchcraft. There is absolutely no excuse for dabbling in any kind of it, I believe. It is very dangerous.
You guys are so annoying, you are judging something that you don’t even know what you are talking about. Harry Potter is just for fun. Reading the book or watching the movie ISN’T “dabbling” in witchcraft/sorcery. Oh gosh.
I never said watching Harry Potter was dabbling in witchcraft. Something that you said concerns me. “Harry Potter is just for fun.” Does being fun make it right? The enemy seems to use “fun” and “harmless” things the most when trying to get into our lives. I’m not calling you a Satan worshiper for watching HP. That’s not at all what I’m saying. There have been children, though, who have been swayed toward witchcraft by watching HP who otherwise wouldn’t have been. I’ve even heard of demonic presences entering into homes through dolls! Dolls! Nothing harmful about a doll, right? Harry Potter has not had a good impact on society as a whole, because it encourages witchcraft (real or fake). Why would we, as Christians, want to even be associated with it? It seems like we Christians in today’s America are always pushing our limits and trying to do as much as we can without crossing the line, and the line is getting more and more blurry.
Very good point. And I know some kids have and if actually have dabbled in sorcery after reading the books. And I Know that the enemy can use the IDEA of the book and turn it into evil. But I think that only occurs in instiances where the kids don’t understand what they are getting g I to. But as. A Christian I only view it as a story. And I take it no further. The question was Christians should read them. And I don’t see any probleproblemwith reading them as long as you onlyonly veiw it as a story, like a fairytale.
*sorry for weird grammar and words spelled weird or doubldoubled my tablet doesn’t kfully load this sisite so it ends up glitching while I write. Ugh.
Yeah I see where you’re coming from. Level of maturity and perspective does play a part in issues like this. Good discussion. 🙂
I apologize for saying you all were annoying, I say that to my brothers all the time but mean nothing really by it.
Lol that’s ok! Apology accepted. 😊
May I ask you Anna? Why are you so defensive of witchcraft/sorcery in movies? Even if it is fake?
May I ask Anna why you are so defensive about witchcraft/sorcery in movies? Even if it is fake?
I am NOT AT ALL DEFENDING IT! I am just talking about a book. As a writer I appreciate how well written the series is. There is nothing fun about real witchcraft but in the case of this exact series I find nothing wrong with a fictional story about a made up magic that tththe author called “witchcraft” .
I understand that some kids have tried real sorcery after reading the series. But as a Christian I know not to.
Can I ask another question? What then is fun about fake witchcraft?
I never said fake witchcraft is fun, but I am guessing you thought I was applying to that when I said “there is nothing fun about real witchcraft”? And I am not saying that the “witchcraft” is fun in Harry Potter, the story plots are what are fun. If any of you had an imagination you would easily be able to see why. I mean, books are so wonderful and the reason there is a diverse selection is clearly because we all have different ideas of what is delightful or even “allowed” , for me having fun is a cup of tea in hand a good book, and I found seven perfectly good ( not saying witchcraft is good kind of good, but really well written, delightful story plot- good) in the Harry Potter series. I am sorry, but I can’t see how you all think theology and philosophy and spending your time debating is fun! Theology has it’s place for me during school hours, but after that I am off to the fictional section of my library. Some of you are theology/philosophy minded, and some of us are imagination minded. Somebody said above something like, do you think that if you sat down and talked to Jesus about what you are reading, do you think he would approve? Do you think he would be pleased by what you are reading? And I think that God gives us all different things that we love and enjoy doing as hobbies, and if I sat down with Jesus, and talked to him about Harry Potter I feel like he would smile at me because I was enjoying this life he gave me. We all enjoy it in different ways, and for me I enjoy it by reading Harry Potter.
Ok… I’m sorry if I sound like I’m trying to pick a fight. I’m just trying to understand. :/ I don’t understand everyone’s views and I just wanna ask questions to figure it out… One last one… What is carnality to you? Don’t feel like this is a loaded question… I just want to know your opinion on this. 😀 Sorry if I came off as trying to prove you wrong. :/ Btw I write stories myself… I’m not just theological or philosophical, I’m also creative and imaginative… Just want to clear that up. You can read what I’ve written. You want to? I’m trying to get opinions on it so far…
Sorry, but I don’t know what carnality is. Now I feel stupid… haha. And I don’t have time right now to read other people work, I told someone a while ago I would read there’s and I haven’t gotten to it! But it is cool that you are a writer, too. 🙂
OK. That’s OK I guess but it is Biblical. I’ll just give a some scriptures and then we’ll be done! 😀 Romans 8:6 & 7 talk about carnality. The carnal mind is an enmity unto God. There is more in 1 Corinthians 3 and in Leviticus 18:20 and 19:20 as well as in Numbers 5:13. By reading the scriptures presented (in KJV, Hebrew, Greek, NIV, and the Message, which sorta helps its point, all support it) one can understand two things. A) That carnality is bad and is an act of the flesh, or an act of free will being exercised wrongly as you and I know, and B) An enmity is probably a bad thing. Now the dictionary definition of carnality is: 1) Pertaining to or characterized by the flesh or the body, its passions and appetites; sensual, and 2) Not spiritual; merely human; temporal; worldly. Another says 1) Relating to physical, especially sexual, needs and activities. (These are first, dictionary.com and second, oxforddictionaries.com). So one thing I hope to portray is that Carnality is bad, not of God (as it is the free will he gave us exercised wrongly), and most importantly not what we were made to do, Matthew 25:44-46 (KJV is where I read it) and John 4:23 (Again I utilised KJV) might be able to say what God sent us here to do (plus Acts of course and the end of all the gospels but I expected you to know that). So to wrap all that up in a nice soft taco shell, that is why I am against reading Harry Potter and books of the like. I consider them not to be of God and therefore, I am spending my time doing what I want instead of what I should be doing… :/ Sorry if that was long winded. I have read the books before! In fifth grade… And if you ever decide to read The Chameleon then you know how to contact me! 😀 I hope this helps with Carnality!
Ok, it’s biblical and I’ll give a quick explanation. Carnality is anything fleshly. The dictionary supports that as well as Romans 8:6-7 and Leviticus 18:20 and 19:20 all share a similar response to carnality (As supported by the Hebrew, Greek, KJV, NIV, and somewhat by the Message). Basically, carnality is anything of the flesh or something that is NOT of God. Therefore, if you are fleshly then you are not spiritual. Carnality, being an enmity to God, will not allow you to make heaven and God will not know you. I’ve always harbored the belief that a lot of books, a lot of actions, and a lot of everything is very carnal and is shown through what is supposedly flesh-driven in the bible: such as sin of any sort. So, with this in mind I say no to Harry Potter because of this. Hey, if you ever want to read my story you know how to message me! I’ll send it over! Also, if you have any more questions about carnality then you can look it up, do a bible study, or even message me! 😀
Thank you for explaining, it’s funny when reading those scriptures in the past I never looked twice as to looking into carnality. And my view on it is that carnal things and sinful things are separate but closely related. And Carnality and human desires can lead into temptation and cause you to sin. And as a Christian it doesn’t mean temptations go away, it just means that you know the consequences of sin.And God isn’t expecting us not to sin (not justifying sin, just saying that everyday you end up messing up one way or another without even trying, sometimes it just happens!) But God DOES want us to come to him when we do mess up and sin. As I was praying and looking into it today I was reminded of Romans 12:2 “Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is–his good, pleasing and perfect will.” So I understand where you are coming from about not wanting to read HP because it is clearly of this world, but I still don’t think reading it is a sin. Because I am still a very spiritual and God-centered person, and in everything I do I still give all glory to God, before I do anything I ask him for help and guidance and I couldn’t imagine my life without the Lord. Since age three I have had Jesus in my heart and God on my mind.That sounds really simple but I swear I am really serious about my faith. I think there is a difference between sin and things that are carnal, and we need to ask the Holy Spirit to guide us away and have an understanding of what truly is right or wrong so that way we don’t keep going down the path of un-righteousness. I will continue to look into it, but that is my first thought. Again thank you for explaining it to me. 🙂 And I will definitely let you know if there is ever a time that I am free enough to read your story! God bless! 🙂
Having read the books, in depth, and having seen the movies, and having enjoyed both, from the point of view of a born-again Christian, I can say, no, reading Harry Potter does not equal dabbling in witchcraft. But it has done something to create a mindset in this world that says that witches are fine and wizardry is cool. The reality is far different, and while often you and I can see the difference, not everyone can. It undermines morals when, in modern times, bad = good. Or even, bad = okay. Finally, there’s no call to be rude, no matter how people talk about a series you love.
Well said!
What would you call reading the HP books then? Theoretically it is just a book. However there are real life witches and other humans that are inhabited by Satan who have supernatural powers. I don’t know the reference but the Bible says to keep your mind pure from unwholesome things. This I believe goes for HP.
yeah, I heard all of the spells were the Latin way of saying the result of the spell.
WELL SAID
As Christians, we are told to be in this world, but not of it (Romans 12:2). I am in no way trying to sound legalistic; I have truly experienced Jesus in my life and when you truly do that, you really don’t feel the need to be filled up with something that is quite questionable. Harry Potter just feels dark, and I have heard that many of the HP spells were taken directly from the satanic black mass. Instead of reading HP, spend time with Jesus! It is soo much more fulfilling! Why should we read what unbelievers read? We are sons and daughters of the one true King! Life is too short to be reading books and watching movies that don’t benefit you in any way.
Well said!
Many of the HP spells were actually just a description of what they should do in Latin, making J.K. Rowlings job of creating new spells easier. For example, “Expecto Patronum” loosely translates to “I await a protector”.
I know this is late, but I am seeing that most of you haven’t read the books or watched any movies and you are clearly judging it from a biased point of view. I am currently reading the books and have seen most of the movies, and to me it is no different than Narnia or LOTR. The witchcraft shown in the books/movies isn’t even real, the author made up all the spells and all the potions. For the most part it is whimsical. If you were asking if Christians should read a real witchcraft book, the answer would be NO. But this is a make-believe world, and the only crime the books have ever done is make a child have a good imagination and make them see that things are going to get better, then I don’t think there is anything wrong with it. Please note that yes witchcraft is a real and dangerous thing, but in the books it is no different than the White Witch in Narnia or the magic that Gandalf has in LOTR.
I have not read LOTR, but I have read The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. The reason the use of the White Witch is okay is because she is representing Satan. I have a problem with Harry Potter because the sorcery is on the good side, which is a really bad thing!
Look, I used to think that they were horrible. But after reading them I realized that as a Christian, I was wrong. The books are fictional representations of more of a world of what if magic existed. Yes they are at a school to become wizards/witches but there kind of wizards and witches are more of the whimsical kind, much like Merlin from the sword in the stone. Black Magic is still represented as bad. The “good” magic, if you wish to call it that- is more of the fun potions. Actually if you want to talk analogy you can find plenty in any book – including HP. Witchcraft is bad and the real deal is very dangerous and it is most certainly something that Christians need to pray against, and be careful about. But reading Harry Potter doesn’t make you a sinner.
It really comes down to the question of what is really best for me and you. Our goal should be that everything we read and watch brings us closer to God. I would encourage you to read books that increase your faith 🙂 Our relationship with God is a little piece of Heaven right on this earth, and I want to take advantage of it! As a person spends more time with Jesus, they become a better person in general. Would you say that Harry Potter has benefited your life in any way? I am in no way trying to sound confrontational, as sisters in Christ I truly want the absolute best for you in life!
Very good point, and sorry I haven’t replied yet I have been busy. I have always been in the habit that if I read a chapter in a fictional book then I read a chapter in the bible. (I read the bible outside of that, too. I am just saying I also read it to balance out my reading). And to answer your question if those books have befitted my life, in a spiritual aspect- no. But as a writer I have benefited greatly by seeing how well written HP is. The author did an exceptional job of having an easy read with a complex story line, it doesn’t matter if you like HP or not- her writing is phenomenal for a modern writer. Thank you for saying that last part of you comment, I agree that we should be focused on trying to better ourselves and to have a God-centered life, but I personally don’t see anything wrong or have any convictions for reading fictional books like HP.
What are some of your favorite books? One of my favorites is Black Beauty though I have not read it in quite a while. Anna Sewell wrote the entire book from the perspective of a horse; it is incredible! Regarding HP, I guess it all depends on how tough you are conviction wise….for me personally I read fiction all the time, but as a basic rule I make sure it was written by a Christian author who is preferably stronger in the faith then I am so I can benefit from their faith. I will throw in the occasional classic (i.e. Black Beauty) that may have not been written by a Christian, but it is very rare.
I hope you have a blessed rest of your day! I can tell that you are seeking after God and I admire that very much. 🙂
Aw I love Black Beauty! I also like, Tuck Everlasting, Anne of Green Gables, Little Women, and another controversial series: Hunger Games…but uh I don’t feel like debating whether or not Christians should read that either. 😉 When I was younger I used to love reading anything by Beverly Lewis and Janette Oke, but they write their books so quickly that some of the story plots are a little shallow, their earlier work is their best. 🙂
Thank you, and same goes for you!
I like the first Anne of Green Gables, but the books where she is married drive me a little bit crazy. She’s a bit too imaginative for an adult 🙂
Haha wait, what? I’m sorry, but for me there is no such thing as being too imaginative. If it weren’t for imaginative adults we wouldn’t have any books, LOTR would be left as a simple idea, and Narnia would be an undiscovered world. We are made in God’s image, and he is very creative and he put that in some of us. 😉
Don’t worry, I am all for imagination :-). As I write this I am designing a super hero theme for my third grade small group room at church. I love acting, dancing, writing, and other creative things; I absolutely love imagination! I just think as we grow older we need to learn to control our imagination and channel it towards productive things. As Paul said in 1 Cor. 13:11, “When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I
reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood
behind me.” I LOVE imagining things, but I think the way Anne used her imagination as an adult was a little bit childish. I hang out with many adults who have amazing imaginations. They can write entire Easter plays or make really good kid’s church skits or mime pieces, but they are productive in their imagining. There is definitely a difference between creativity and la-la land.
Oh okay. Gotcha. I am a writer so for me I was thinking, “How on earth would I be able to write a book without an imagination!” haha. 🙂
There is just one thing I would like to point out. There is a difference between the magic/witchcraft in Harry potter, LOTR, and Narnia, and that in the real world. You don’t see Harry potter calling on Satan. Gandalf doesn’t get possessed by a Demon to prevent the Balrog from crossing the bridge of Khazad-dhum.
In fact, I would go as far as to say that the magic and wizardry in our culture today is completely different from the real kind. Think about it. The witch doctors in Africa call on Satan and get possessed by demons in an effort to try and cure sick people. Completely different.
As far as I know, the only thing connecting the two is the terms we use. A friendly old man with a blue pointy hat and a stick in his hand, wielding some mystical power is completely different. Even the dark, evil wizards or witches don’t call on Satanic powers. In fact, if we didn’t know that the idea for magic was originally demonic powers, I don’t think that we would ever be able to connect the two.
As something by itself, I believe that magic in movies like LOTR or HP is completely fine. IF we understand the difference. In the real world, the only kind of magic is demonic powers, and it is DANGEROUS.
In the world of HP or LOTR, witchcraft is simply a mystical force, which can be used both for good and for evil.
I would have to partially disagree – while the only magic in in the world is demonic, it doesn’t always even look dark in today’s real life world. New Age stuff these days is made to look all mystical and fun, never a mention of Satan or demons until you get deep in from what I’ve seen. There’s lessons and classes on bk lack magic around here, but from the ads you’d be sure it’s something completely innocuous. Portraying magic as both good and evil is part of the problem in my opinion – can good come from anywhere but God? No… So watching stuff which constantly tells us a lie (magic can be good or bad, and it’s okay to try out this stuff) is just a lower dose of the real life lie that many many people actually believe, and that is seeping into the churches. Satan wears a different costume in the Western world these days. There is a place you can go to get Spirit guides down the street from our old place, fifteen minutes from us. Lovely people. Offering to have you possessed by a demon for money. This is real. Demonic powers are at work all over the Western world, but the forms we see them in (psychics, some psychologists, some people with schizophrenia, New age followers, mystics, Free Masons, your average person down the street – business people or drunks, modern day witches and wizards) look and sound different to what we see in developing countries, and lay lower. School children in my area, not even in their teens, are talking to spirits. A number of psychologists that I’ve heard of have linked HP to children needing counselling, into occult stuff, suicidal. Close relatives of of mine included. It’s noted that after the release of new HP books, the number of people buying occult related stuff soars. This is not to say everyone who reads it will – definitely not. But why even hold your hand near to the fire? I would venture to say that giving a false view of what magic is (either that good doesn’t come from God, or evil doesn’t come from Satan) doesn’t make it okay – it makes it worse. I pray that this discussion challenges is all to think more deeply about what we believe and why – there are a lot lot of heavy matters here. I really hope I haven’t offended you, that was not my intention at all! But I’d encourage you to take another look and discuss further if you are interested at all. 😀
God bless, Carrie
Very eye-opening. Thank you so much for speaking your convictions.
Why bother messing with something that may or may not be sin? If you thought oh! It’s about witchcraft! then I think that if there is even an inkling of whether it’s wrong or good go with wrong. If it rides the fence of sin and godliness then don’t mess with it. I personally read all the books. And now I realize that even though it’s fake, even though it conveys good messages, and even though everyone does it we as christians are meant to be Godly. Easiest way to do that is to just stay away from things that could cause you to slip. Harry Potter is neither bad nor good. Only what it causes you to do is. Such as: Worship god? or talk about the book? Does it make you want to go and seek God? or does it make you wanna watch a movie? These are questions we need to ask ourselves about anything. This included. I believe the same about The Lord of the Rings, Narnia, and some Disney things.
Narnia was written by a Christian. It is a Christian fiction book. And I like the Harry Potter franchise and the LOTR franchise because that’s the kind of stuff I like but it’s not about what’s in it that matters it’s what u do with it. If it distracts u from ur Godly mission then it’s not good for u but if it’s not a distraction then it’s ok. That’s the way I look at it
While that’s all fine and dandy that still doesn’t even touch one of my main points. Whether it was written by a christian or not (I know it was), whether the magic was portrayed as bad (Which it is), and whether there were christian allusions and allegories in the stories (which there were) all I’m saying is that if a human starts to look into those things and say that they are ok, they form a foothold. This happens in everything. From seeing girls/guys in swimwear or downloading free games that companies don’t sell anymore (piracy) many harmless things can lead to worse things. Little things will bog us down and then we will be snared. It doesn’t matter if it is good or bad in this case it just matters that we don’t let it start to bog us down. How can one fully serve God when one’s mind is focused on something else? This is all I’m truly asking. If our purpose, our creation, was solely to worship and serve God willingly then why would we focus on other things?
Not everything that you read has to be about God to make you think about him. If you have to read things 100% about God all the time to keep you focused on him, then you need to work on keeping yourself focused even when you aren’t reading/watching something about him. What I mean is, you can go out into this world, in some places you can’t read Christian fiction because it is against the law, but there are still Christians in this world that are focused on him even with crap going on around them. If you step outside of a Christian comfort-zone (and this goes for me too) what you have to stay focused ON God, is God himself. The bible says to pray without ceasing, and I think that that is God’s reminder that no matter where you are, even if you can’t say his name out loud, you can still pray to him. And when I say “you” I am not directing that at you , Morgan, I am just saying it as a general statement. And this isn’t like a defensive statement, it was just something that got me thinking, something I have to work on. Because sometimes you get in situations where you can’t have everything Christian, and I think a lot of Christians aren’t used to not having that. I realize this has nothing to do with HP! haha! 🙂
I would say NO!!! Does it glorify God in any way at all? What do you think God would say? I don’t mean to get all spiritual on you, but my answer is a definite no!!
Therefore, Christians shouldn’t be allowed to read books from authors who are not Christians?
Literally any book?
Yes, but in my opinion Christians don’t need to read only books which glorify God. They should read them first to establish their love for god, but then they can read even those which do not contain any mention of religion at all, even those which tell things which directly contradict Christian teaching. For example, reading Mein Kampf can be useful for better understanding what happened in the WWII even though Hitler’s teachings were terrible and they are against Christianity 🙂
Yeah, totally! I agree.
i read most of these comments, and have written a few on this discussion, but i’m noticing that everyone is putting their opinion. maybe i missed this, but have any of us actually looked at the BIBLE, to see what it says.
take the ten commandments for example,
in Exodus 20 god is giving Moses the 10 commandments and the first is,
YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER gods BEFORE ME
IS hp a god? has it become our idol?
Good point. And isn’t there a verse somewhere that says “Have nothing to do with witches”? I might be wrong about that though :/
my point exactly!
hey thatcher, i know u in real life nice point!!!!
I have asked myself this same question, and I have at different times taken the no-fantasy-at-all-ever-just-to-be-on-the-safe-side position and the how-bad-can-it-be-let’s-try-it-all position. Being an avid reader, I’ve also asked similar questions about other books and other genres, but this particular question was a big one for me. So, as far as fantasy in general, here goes. I grew up on the Narnia books, and even when the book was shut I would pretend my closet was a wardrobe and my stuffed animals could talk. As I got older I discovered Tolkien’s writing and immersed myself in that. However, I found lots of fantasy that, during or after reading, I realized was fluff and had been a waste of time, or had even been dark and harmful to me. What I found was that I usually knew after picking up a book and reading the cover or after reading a few pages whether or not I should be reading it. The Holy Spirit is there to help us live right, and He would show me if I should not be reading it. There were times when I put my hands over my ears and read it anyway, and later had to repent, but that was my own fault.
As for the Harry Potter books, I saw everyone around me reading them, including people that I respected, and so I wanted to try them. I told my mom and she wisely did not forbid me to read them. (If she had, I probably would have wanted to read them even more.) She told me that she would discuss the book with me if I wanted to read it. I prayed and felt very strongly that HP was not glorifying to God and that I should not be involved with it at all, so I didn’t read them. From what I have been told of the series (by critics and fans alike), it seems that they are being trained in dark magic and that it is extremely unclear what the difference is between good and evil.
I think that there is a very fine and hard-to-see line between fun, imaginative literature (or movies, tv, etc.), but some common themes in books that I have not felt free to read are: darkness and light being hard to distinguish (that could be a whole article in and of itself), other elements that are against God (inappropriate elements, graphic details), and things that may pass under the radar or be justified as “not that bad”, but that can wear down my sensitivity to evil. I also find it very helpful to research the author. C.S. Lewis, author of Narnia, is a great apologist, a brilliant scholar, and a great Christian hero. Tolkien, author of LOTR was also a Christian and a close friend of Lewis’. J.K. Rowling is not a Christian and has made it clear that she is in opposition to some biblical principles. When, as a Christian, you are creating something and you are open to the spirit of God, he can direct you away from evil and enable you to create a great work of art for his glory, whether it directly mentions him or not. When you are not a Christian, the spirit of God is not guiding you; you are guiding you, and you are much more open to the enemy’s deception and manipulation, in your work and your life. (This is NOT to say that anything written by a non-believer is of the devil!) When in doubt, check it against scripture. If still in doubt, seek God and ask a Pastor or other spiritual authority.
Wow, I didn’t mean to write a letter. 🙂 I hope that this can be of some help to someone!
I just got to say! I love how everyone is able to state their opinions or thoughts and it doesn’t become an argument!! I think that is SO awesome!
A rare gift, isn’t it?
I think it really is! It is really refreshing! No one is taking a holier than thou approach to people who read HP and the people who do aren’t all whatever religious people! Everyone respects each others opinions and asks questions about why they think/believe that! And it’s not just in this! It is all over the whole site!
Yes! It’s great seeing how everyone’s really trying to help each other instead of just pushing their point across.
Having never read or watched Harry Potter, I’m in no position to judge it. But I think that often books (or artwork or music) can be interpreted in many different ways. What we’ve seen with this discussion is that some of us see references to magic as harmless imagination, others as allegory, and others as a satanic influence to be avoided like the plague. Are any of these views right or wrong? Possibly – I don’t know. But I do know that because of the gift of imagination, when faced with something like this we each respond differently.
Some of us (myself included) might find magic in literature a threat to our relationship with God. We should avoid it – but make sure we’re not forcing everyone to follow our approach. Others might find it harmless and enjoyable. That could be good. But again, here we shouldn’t offend those who don’t see it that way. As Paul says, it’s all right to edify ourselves – but it’s always better if we can edify others too. I guess this is about pointing each other to Christ, whose love for us is more powerful than any human writer could imagine.
Sorry, nothing new here 😉
I like how you compiled all the answers into one answer! 🙂
Thanks! I’m not sure if I did though :-}
Eh you got the gist of it all! And I feel as though you showed everyone’s base thoughts!
I haven’t made my mind up completely on the subject, but I really appreciate your answer. It’s balanced yet points to scripture just like we always should when faced with questions.
Thanks Brendon. That’s encouraging.
You’ve probably noticed that what consistently comes up in these “Is it okay…?” discussions is that while something may not be wrong in and of itself, it’s always important to consider (a) whether it helps us honour God, and (b) whether it helps or hinders our brothers and sisters in Christ. In other words, “Everything is permissible – but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others” (1 Corinthians 10: 23-4, NIV).
Of course, the original context of that passage was about whether it was okay to eat food offered to idols. But I think that it applies to many of the dilemmas Christians face (e.g. “Is it okay to watch Harry Potter?”, “Is it okay to play Truth or Dare?” etc.). Because if we set up arbitrary rules about what Christians can and can’t do, then we have forgotten the power of God’s grace. But if we do whatever we like – simply because it’s not “forbidden” – then we have equally missed the point.
How can we tell if something is helping us in our walk with God? It’s not easy. But the process of seeking his will for our lives will help us grow closer to Him.
Nailed it!!!!!!
Thanks Mimey! ;-P
This whole discussion is actually really funny to me. My views are actually considered pretty “conservative” in real life, but I’m quite “liberal” on this website. (The “conservative” and “liberal” being terms used loosely, of course.)
I realize that I’m deviating from this discussion quite a bit, but does anyone else feel this way? Or maybe you feel a little bit more “conservative” than “liberal” on this website? It’s intriguing to me how I come across in different circles of my life.
Yes! I’m probably the most conservative among my friends, but sometimes I’m one of the less-conservative on here. Not all the way to “liberal” but less conservative. 🙂
I feel like I’m the exact opposite. I’m the more liberal of my friends, and I’m often more conservative on the internet.
Hi , just read this. I am actually a religious education teacher and saw this and found it very interesting. Let’s consider the fact that the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe was written by CS Lewis, a man reknowned as a devout Christian and Aslan is widely known to be a metaphor for Christ (# sacrifice and resurrection at the end?) as was admitted by Lewis himself.
Now let’s consider that Christ himself was not a rule follower and often delivered messages through stories.
Now let us also consider the slightly more controversial idea that Harry Potter too is considered to be metaphor for Christ (# disciples, sacrifice and resurrection?, avoiding the temptations of Voldemort as the devil etc).
Now let’s consider that the Harry Potter phenomenon has single handedly put a massive dent in children’s illiteracy through spreading unbridled joy through the written word to millions of children around the world who’ve never read a book in their lives and whether or not God would think that was bad thing.
It all comes down to right intent. Whether or not your faith is strong enough to believe that God knows what’s in your heart and is clever enough to tell the difference between an attempt to return to the Salem fever of yesteryear or kid who wants to read a cool book.
The thing is, Harry Potter is NOT a metaphor for Christ, as Aslan is. Aslan is the sinless creator of worlds, who comes to the aid of Narnia, suffering and dying in the place of sinful man (Edmund), and restoring the world of Narnia. This is a metaphor for Christ.
Harry is more like the children of Narnia than the God of Narnia. He is a normally-sinful little boy who disobeys his professors and argues with his friends. The idea that he is a type of Christ, just because he is on the side of “good” when compared to Voldemort’s evil, is a really dangerous idea, and shows a huge misunderstanding of the gospel message.
Because there is no Creator in the Potterverse, and no arbiter of a universal good and evil, there can be no consequence for sin.. indeed, sin is not even a concept to be explored. There is good and there is evil, but “good” is not a concept in itself, defined by the goodness of God. Indeed, good can only be defined as anything that is not evil, defined by the badness of Voldemort. So the Potterverse has a devil, but not a god.
Take for example, the chapter where Harry, Ron & Hermione disobey explicit instruction from their professor Dumbledore by sneaking out of bed in the night in order to fight Voldemort. Are we to say that their decision was right, because they are the “good guys?”
Consider that they cast a spell on poor little Neville Longbottom, who is trying to obey Dumbledore in telling them to go back to their rooms. But in the relativist morality of the Potterverse, it’s okay that they cast a spell on him, because the ends justify the means. How very Machiavellian!
When Edmund betrays his brother and sisters, in the Narnia story, there is a punishment. Indeed, Aslan Himself takes that punishment. Remind you of anyone? Edmund repents, and becomes a better person for it. This is why Aslan is a type of Christ.
When Harry Potter betrays Neville Longbottom, there is no punishment. Indeed, that is the very night that he succeeds in defeating Voldemort, and there is a huge celebration, where he is rewarded for his actions by Dumbleldore, the very professor whom he disobeyed. Certainly, Neville is also rewarded by Dumbledore for his bravery in standing up to Harry, but there is no consequence to Harry’s disobedience.
If Harry Potter is a type of Christ, he is a type of a Christ who never existed. He is a type of a Christ who would never have taken the cup of suffering given to him by his Father, but instead, who would have taken arms as Peter wanted to, and fought the forces of evil on his own terms. He is a type of a Christ who could never have led us to salvation, because it is in humility and submission that Christ did this, not in rebellion and disobedience.
Yes, Aslan, dying on the Stone Table for Edmund’s sin, is a type of Christ. Harry Potter, in his rebellion towards authority, is more a type of Edmund! But because Harry Potter lives in a godless universe, where morality is relative, where good has no definition of itself other than “not evil,” there is no consequence for sin, and no need for Christ.
This is not the worldview I want to provide my children. And that is why Harry Potter is not acceptable, while other fairy tales may be so.
Thank you for this explanation. I haven’t read the HP books and haven’t allowed my children to read them or to see the movies.
I did read Harry Potter years ago when the first few books were coming out. They are definitely exciting and fun reading. But I had a secular worldview back then. Now that I am a Christian, I cannot in good conscience recommend them. They are a product of our morally relativistic culture, and they propagate that same worldview.
Not everything needs to be a parallel to Christ for Christians to read it. Yes, Harry doesn’t always act the way he should, but do we? Throughout the whole series, he makes mistakes — some are wrongly glorified (as you pointed out) and others he faces the consequences. I think Harry Potter could be a good discussion point for you and your kids in explaining different worldviews other than your own, because once they leave the nest, they will get slammed with those views and have to sort through them without your help. Now, obviously, I’m not a mom, so don’t take this the wrong way. 🙂 that’s just my opinion.
You’re right, not everything needs to be a parallel for Christ. I was responding to the post above mine, where the writer presents Harry Potter as a metaphor for Christ the way Aslan is.
Also, certainly HP could be a good discussion point in explaining the problem with a morally relativistic worldview. But my children are too young for that right now. And really, I think there are enough examples of this utilitarian philosophy in real life, that I don’t need to turn to Potter to springboard the discussion.
But that’s a decision for parents to make for their child. I don’t have a problem with parents informing themselves, and making the decision to use a book like this for that purpose.
I think the bigger issue is that many people don’t recognize the flaw in the worldview, and imagine that it is compatible with a Christian worldview. They are not using the book to springboard critical thinking and discussion. They are merely allowing the world’s errant philosophies to enter their child’s perception of the world.
As Christians, we need to be vigilant… especially when it comes to our children. Certainly, all things are permissible, but not all things are beneficial. (1 Cor 10:23)
I take it you haven’t read the last book where Harry willingly goes to Voldemort to be killed in order to save everyone else.
I have, actually, but so many years ago I had forgotten it. Thanks for the reminder! While I was commenting on the first book in particular, I stand by my assessment. Harry acts on his own will, while Christ acts on his Father’s will.
Romans says: “very rarely will anyone due for a righteous person, though for a good person a man might even dare to die. But God shows his love for us in this: while we were still sinners Christ died for us.”
If Harry is good, then the friends for whom he dies are equally good (for they follow the same moral guidelines Harry does: the end justifies the means, and good can be defined only in comparison to Voldemort, who is the standard of evil).
Remember, the whole point of Christianity is that morality is not relative. Goodness is defined by God, and evil can be defined as the antithesis of good. God is the standard by which we measure good and evil.
In contrast, in the Potterverse, evil is defined by Voldemort, good is defined as the antithesis of that evil. Voldemirt is the standard by which we measure good and evil.
And Harry is not a Christ, good dying for evil (as defined by God), but an example of the man in Romans who would dare to die for his “good” friends, “good” dying for “good” as defined by the morality of the Potterverse.
Actually, I have read the last book, but had forgotten it when I posted. Thanks for the reminder! 🙂
I stand behind my original point, however.
Romans 5: 7-8: For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Christ died for sinners, who fell vastly short of God’s standards. Christ was able to provide a sacrifice for us because He was not a sinner. That’s the whole point of a Saviour.
Harry died for his friends, who followed the same morality he did. They were all good, in comparison to Voldemort.
So Harry is the one in Romans who will dare to die for a good person, while Christ is the sinless one who died for sinners.
The Christian worldview is based on God’s standard of morality. He decides what is good and what is evil. So God is good, and whatever is opposed to Him is evil.
The Potterverse is based on Voldemort’s standard of morality. Voldemort is evil, and whatever is opposed to Him is good.
So the Potterverse, where anyone who opposes Voldemort is good, and therefore has no need of a Saviour.
In real life, anyone who opposes God is evil, and that includes all of us, so we are all in need of a Saviour.
Harry Potter is a good kid, a nice guy, brave and self-sacrificing. He sacrifices himself in order to save others who are nice, good people, others who are opposed to Voldemort’s standard of evil. But He is no Christ.
no you cant watch these things.God us to be different among those in the world.you cant put witchcraft,porn etc in your site and expect to grow.remember what you feeding on yourself will make you what you wann be.rich in the things of the world not of God.soo guys please becareful.we need to take the world for Jesus.
My family has always viewed it as more of a personal conviction. My sister and I knew that, in real life, witchcraft was wrong and nothing to be involved in, but reading HP was just a form of entertainment. We were mature for our ages and had long been taught better than to put our faith and trust in magic tricks and sorcery, but to instead rely on God. Personally, I’ve read all of the LOTR series (except The Silmarillion, which I’m starting later this summer) and five of the seven HP books before I stopped because I realized that HP was a greater distraction from my relationship with God. I was one of those kids who put themselves into that universe when I got bored or lonely, and HP was a HUMONGOUS distraction, unlike LOTR. HP is all about the magic, while LOTR uses it slightly less and focuses more on using the magic when it is used to accomplish the quest for the greater good of their world. (Also, no matter how hard you may or may not try, your beliefs will seep into your writing. While LOTR was not meant to be an allegory, JRR Tolkien’s Christian beliefs do show in his books; I don’t know that JKR is or is not Christian, but based on the 5/7 of the books I have read and on tweets she has made, worldly opinions of right and wrong would be those displayed in the HP books.)
I absolutely LOVE LOTR!!! I think there are many Christian allusions embedded within the story, along with C.S. Lewis’s work. I feel that magic is not a central point in LOTR, as it seems to be in HP.
I would recommend this book called “Moments of Grace and Spiritual Warfare in The Lord of the Rings” By Anne Marie Gazzolo
I think it real depends on whether it becomes an idol. If you read them, appreciate them, treasure them but don’t put them up on a pedestal by all means go ahead. I did this and I don’t think I’ve been negatively affected! BUT there was another kid I know who was forbidden from reading them because he stayed up all night every night reading them, he was reading them instead of doing things like homework etc. At that point it’s taken the wrong place in your life. Read them, enjoy them, but don’t idolize them.
Oops, *really depends 🙂
Absolutely! I really looove HP, not just because of the exciting stories, but because it is a good way to make friends with similar interests and potentially lead them to Christ. Most of the people who say, “oooooooo you read hp? Thats horrible and evil!” have never even read them. I read them with my father (a pastor) and we were able to discuss many theological things about it.
Oh, and about LOTR, read the books. Dont be satisfied with just the movies. Its totally worth it. 🙂
If you feel convicted I would say to stay away for sure. But it really comes down to how much it influences you. If its purely entertainment I don’t see harm in it, but if it is influencing you in any way that isn’t honoring to God you should stop immediately! Personally, I used to watch a show called FRIENDS because it was incredibly funny and very entertaining. Most of the show was innocent but because there were many sexual references I felt convicted to stop watching it, so I did. However, I still watch Lord of The Rings without any conviction at all and I loved the new Hobbit movies. Ultimately pray about it and obey what God convicts you of! 🙂
Ultimately, we need to be searching for what God has to say on this topic. A few verses that came to mind are these:
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you.”
Philippians 4:8-9
Another scripture to consider:
“Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves. Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor.”
1 Peter 2:16-17
You see, this flusters me a bit.
My parents would always make sure I understood that there is a difference between reading something and knowing it’s fun and games, for recreation, that it’s only make believe and actually believing something. You see, this is where the difference of loves come in, I love harry potter in the aspect that it is one of my favorite make believe stories to read. BUT I love God, a much deeper love, completely different from each other. I believe that the harry potter fandom is a fun community to be in, but I don’t believe that harry potter is real.
As for the Lord of the rings portion, I never understood how people can think that the author being Christian has any difference to the genre itself.
YES thank you.
Make believe makes it okay? “Pretend,” witchcraft is good? Healthy? Wise? Inspiring? Godly?
HARRY POTTER IS A CHRISTIAN ALLEGORY. JK ROWLING IS A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN!!! SO SICK OF SAYING THIS.
She is a member of a writers group that CS Lewis is a member of that only Authors of Christian works can join. Harry Potter quotes the Bible. She has said herself the “death” and :”rebirth” of Harry in the last book was a metaphor for Jesus.
Magic and casting spells is the main point in Happy Potter. He is in a school to learn witchcraft. In Lord of the rings there is some magic but it is not the main point, and the lines between good and evil is clearly drawn in LOTR. Also I have never known anyone go out and buy books on how to cast spells after reading LOTR but I know many people personally who got into magic and witchcraft after reading Harry Potter. Those are the reasons to we do not read or watch Harry Potter.
1..Harry Potter novels quote the Bible. JK Rowling intended the books to be Christian allegories.
2. You are lying no one has ever gone into witchcraft from Harry Potter. Not one legitimate spell is used in Harry Potter. As a former student of witchcraft I can tell you that witch spells are all done in the native tongue of the practitioner, not Latin which is what they do in Harry Potter (it’s not even REAL Latin but a bastardized version)
3. There is a huge distinction between good and evil in Harry Potter. Obviously you know nothing about them.
4. Modern Wicca is not the witchcraft that the Bible condemns. it is a new religion that is only about a century old that CLAIMS to be old. It IS against Christianity, but no one has ever cast a spell with Wicca. It’s not possible to make anything happen with it. It’s all BS. They tell you you can control the weather, but you might as well say “rain today” and you’ll have as much chance of it working.
I really wish Christians would stop having the attitude that it is okay to do something so long as it is just entertainment or when it isn’t real!! Are we reading our Bibles? Christians are supposed to live for Christ ALWAYS and to be set apart from the world, and that includes our entertainment. And witchcraft, magic and wizardry are very real and the Bible is always opposed to them! Our convictions need to come from the Bible, it’s time for us as Christians to be willing to give some things up for Christ and stop worrying so much about entertaining ourselves.
You guys do know that JK Rowling (the author of Harry Potter) quoted the Bible in Harry Potter and has said that Harry was baptized and does regularly go to church right? The whole Harry Potter is Occult garbage started from the Onion and you guys fell for it. http://www.mtv.com/news/1572107/harry-potter-author-jk-rowling-opens-up-about-books-christian-imagery/
I think that the idea is in the mechanics of the magic in both worlds. From what I’ve read, the magic in the Wizarding World is primarily mysterious. No one understands how it works; no one knows where it came from; and there is little distinction between “good” magic and “bad” magic. Conversely, in LOTR, magic is the doing of Eru Illuvatar, the creator God who is analogous to the Christian God in our world. Magic in Middle Earth really no different than Jesus calling on the sea to be still (like when Glorfindel raised up the river to ward off the Nazgul). Also, wizards in Tolkien’s universe are not really wizards. They are Istari, Maiar–or angels–specifically sent by Eru to watch over Middle Earth. Gandalf used to be a Maia called Olorin, until Eru called him into Middle Earth as the “Grey Wizard” Gandalf. The only reason Istari are called “wizards” is because humans don’t have another word for them. This is contrasted in the HP universe where wizards are an elite and snobbish group of people who hide their magic from the real world because “muggles” are too stupid to understand it–even though it is painfully obvious wizards don’t understand it either. I have a similar argument for the Chronicle of Narnia, but I don’t think it will fit here.
Have you actually read Harry Potter? Because you kinda just misrepresented it there, I think.
Please, read the books before you judge them. Those wizards who are snobbish group which thinks of themselves as elite in Harry Potter books are called Death Eaters, and they are villains. And wizards in Harry Potter world don’t hide magic because they think muggles are stupid. Again, only Death Eaters believe that muggles are all inferior or stupid.
There is a HUGE distinction between good and evil in Harry Potter. JK Rowling also intended the books to be a Christian allegory.
In researching the harry potter books, JK Rowling actually studied the occult and Black Magic. There is an excellent resource, Harry Potter and the Bible by Richard Abanes, that explains in deeper detail the demonic conotations of the HP series (books and movies, which you may want to look into for further information). However, LOTR and Narnia are allegorical of the Bible, Christainity, etc.
http://www.mtv.com/news/1572107/harry-potter-author-jk-rowling-opens-up-about-books-christian-imagery/
You guys do know that JK Rowling (the author of Harry Potter) quoted the Bible in Harry Potter and has said that Harry was baptized and does regularly go to church right? The whole Harry Potter is Occult garbage started from the Onion and you guys fell for it. http://www.mtv.com/news/1572107/harry-potter-author-jk-rowling-opens-up-about-books-christian-imagery/
If you “aren’t allowed to read things that have witchcraft in them”, then I guess you’re not allowed to read the Bible. There is witchcraft mentioned throughout, and there are several scenes in the Old Testament where we see witchcraft happen. Some might argue that in the Bible, witchcraft is always shown as bad, whereas in HP, it is glorified. However, I wouldn’t necessarily describe it like that. Yes, magic is glorified in the Harry Potter world, but not witchcraft. The only scene in which I would say what was done was actually witchcraft is *SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT* in book 4 where Voldemort is risen from a not-quite-dead-but-not-quite-alive state and given a body to reside in, and obviously, the good side did everything in their power to try to stop it. *SPOILERS OVER SPOILERS OVER* other than that, the magic done is more fantasy, more like LOTR and Narnia, not witchcraft. And, like with most things, parallels can still be drawn to the Christian faith.
However, the Bible says to honor your parents. So, if your parents say no, you should honor that. There’s nothing against making up a list of logical points to back up what you think is right and presenting it calmly to them, but you should honor their decision, whatever it may be.
Olivia,
My parents have this same rule. And to be honest I have always struggled with it. I am a complete nerd. I am very into doctor who, lotr, comics you name it. My parents trust my judgement with those things. However the only restriction they have placed on me is “please don’t watch/read harry potter”. I have always respected their wishes. However it is really hard because everyone who is a nerd like me is into all the stuff I menchoned loves harry potter. My parents have had many discussions with me about the series because all my friends watch them (including my christian friends) I have yet to meet a teen chistian who hasn’t. My parents have explained to me that the harry potter series is different from the other series I read because the author did a lot of research into the occult for this series. All of the spells and posions and whatever else they use in the series are all real. They are spells that the occult use in real situations for demonic tendoncies. Normally I don’t get involved in discussions like this but I have gone through the nerdy christian life without harry potter and I understand how it feels. Never forget that the Lord calls us to honor and obey our parents. I’m not sure how I feel about harry potter personally, however my parents have asked me not to watch them so I respect them. Someday each of us have to stand before God and give an answer for everything we’ve ever done in this life. If it is a personal conviction that you don’t watch harry potter, it is better for you to not watch it because you’d be going against your convictions and you’ll have to answer for that. But if you think its okay, you’ll have to answer for that as well. This is only my understanding of it. I hope this helped. Your sister in Christ Tori
Victoria, I don’t think if this helps, as I am not Christian myself, but I can definitely swear that those spells and potions in Harry Potter are NOT real. If this is opinion of your parents, they are clearly wrong. All the spells in Harry Potter are just Latin words and if someone says in real life “Wingardium Leviosa”, “Accio” or “Expecto Patronum”, which are all spells from Harry Potter, it does nothing. Also, the potions in Harry Potter mostly have an ingredience which is from some creature invented by J. K. Rowling for these books, so they clearly aren’t real.
J.K. Rowling (writer of Harry Potter) is very much a Christian and harry Potter is a Christian allegory. http://www.mtv.com/news/1572107/harry-potter-author-jk-rowling-opens-up-about-books-christian-imagery/
This argument really upsets me. As a Christian, whose favorite series of movies and books is Harry Potter, it really irritates me to see so many people judge the series without looking into it or even just reading the first book just to check it out. Whenever I was a kid and saw the previews for the first movie, I wanted to see it so bad. My mom heard about all of the controversy on the series and decided to read the book herself, before letting me go see it. After she read the first book, she fell in love with the series. There are so many Biblical allegories in this series. The author, J.K. Rowling, stated that in her last book, “The Deathly Hallows” she used Christianity as one of her biggest influences. As a Christian, it is hard to watch or read this series without seeing Biblical Allegories, as a matter of fact, this is why I love the series so much. The main point to the series is not magic or casting spells, the main point of this series is love. I’m not trying to force anyone to watch or read this series, but if you love Lord of the Rings or Narnia as much as I do, you will LOVE this series.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/fictionreviews/3668658/J-K-Rowling-Christianity-inspired-Harry-Potter.html
I used to play video games a ton when I was younger. (Like around 13-15yrs)
Many of the online games I played focused on witchcraft. Learning spells, using spells, being a wizard. I thought it was cool ya know, lightning, fire, and ice, I could defeat anything!
And they were good games. Well designed, well formatted, most of the other people I met liked them too. What was the problem with them?
Firstly, they made a joke out of real witchcraft. It exists, and is deadly. Curses a real, spells are real, and demons are real.
Secondly, whose to say I wasn’t actually reading spells? How do I know I wasn’t actually dabbling in the occult by saying those spell names, by even reading them!
But this isn’t about whether its real witchcraft or not. This is whether you want to play around with a book where the author researched occult to “get it right.” This is a book which teaches you, “witchcraft is just a joke, don’t worry.”
What could honestly be worse? It’s a lie so smooth you think you’ve been given a treat.
There has never been one case of a spell actually working. Witchcraft is not real. What is called witchcraft today is a new religion that is only a few decades old. The witchcraft the Bible mentions doesn’t exist anymore. JK Rowling is A CHRISTIAN. BTW the people who went to see Jesus on his birth? Magi the word Magi is where the word MAGIC came from and they were ASTROLOGERS. Joseph did DREAM INTERPRETATIONS–a form of divination or WITCHCRAFT! The apostles used Witchcraft (throwing lots) to determine who would replace Judas! In Harry Potter Astrology and divination are treated like they are a joke the Bible is more pro witchcraft than Harry Potter is!
*hounds on subject like white on rice* This is one of my favorite things to inform people about! Get ready for a long post…
Harry Potter is a beautiful and powerful series ultimately about the triumph of good over evil. That main plot is really quite profound–besides that, the characters are engaging and fun, and oh the world J.K Rowling created! It’s impossibly complex and yet somewhat believable at the same time. I understand lots of good Christian families struggle with letting their children read it because of the whole “witch” thing, but honestly, it’s just a series of books. (If it makes your parents feel any better, the “witches” in HP are simply the female equivalent of wizards. Think Gandalf! He’s good! Yes, there are bad witches as you read through the books, but there are tons of good ones, too. One of the main and greatest characters is a young and talented witch named Hermione, who is a model student and kind and loyal friend.) The other main point is that there are two kinds of magic—invocational (calling upon spirits from the dead) and incantational (calling upon a vague and distant power using words to accomplish particular feats). The magic in Harry Potter is the latter (incantational; in a school setting that is mostly described humorously as magic backfires), which in real life doesn’t do anything (the “spells” are simply Latin-derived words) and doesn’t lead people to evil things, unlike séances and such, which involve invocation to call on demons. As a final note, my parents read the books, enjoyed them as fiction, and read them to me reminding me of their fantastical nature and TRUSTING me to remain firm in my faith, despite what I read. I think what this issue really comes down to is parents’ lack of trust in their children or misinformation from biased sources about the series’ content. My view (and my parents’) is from that of a curious reader whose faith will not be swayed by secular fiction, and who enjoys a rollicking good tale!
I hope this helped your opinion of HP and decision to read the series! In my opinion, it is a timeless set of books that can never be reread too many times. 🙂 (If you have any more detailed questions, I wrote a persuasive speech last year about the outstanding Christian themes in the series, and will post notes as needed!)
It’s about witchcraft. It focuses on, witchcraft. It talks about, witchcraft. The characters use, witchcraft.
I don’t mean to repeat the same point, but surely even “pretend” witchcraft is not okay? (Not to say it is pretend, JK studied occult to write parts of it)
This should be ringing every bell you ever had! Yes, it may have good characters. Yes it may have a good vs evil, but it is ultimately about, inside and out, witchcraft. Why toy with something so evil? Why play around? Why risk the relationship you have with God, for a book?
The devil is trying His best to do everything to kill, rob, and destroy you, and you are holding his gun.
I attend a christian school so I am with Harry Potter lovers and Harry Potter haters every day, my sister and I love the books, and having Christians judging or faith really bothered us, so my sister and her friend did a bible fair project on secular literature. In their research they discovered that J.K.Rowling is a christian and the reason she didn’t make it known was because she knew it would ruin the ending of the book for sure, because in a christian novel good overcomes the bad in the end. All that the witchcraft is is a foundation that you can build a plot on. I still agree you need to know where to draw the line between reality and fantasy because if you get to into it it can be dangerous.
I am bothered by Christians judging other Christians for reading a book. One teacher told my younger sister to get rid of the book and then told her she was concerned about her spirituality. its OK to have your own views just don’t force them on others them on others.
Say I make brownies. I put some poison in them, just a little. Would you eat those brownies?
What makes you think toying with witchcraft is okay? Who told you witchcraft isn’t real anymore, who told you it was safe? Because they lied to you.
Have you ever heard the phrase, “going to church makes you a Christian as much as being in a garage makes you a car.” Becuase the same applies to people who call themselves Christians. Just because they say it, doesn’t mean they are. Jk studied witchcraft, the occult, and put it in her book. How much more obvious can it get?
On what grounds actually PROVE that she “studied” occult and who are you to judge someone’s faith? She doesn’t advertise her life in the media lol. What you just said makes you a hypocrite. I read your previous comments and read some of those websites. Those are opinionated and based on nothing but accusations of people wanting something to put blame on and judge. The only truth on those sites are what the quotes are from the bible. I’m so sick of people like you telling us what is wrong and what is right and judging without even reading or watching the movies. You can have no real opinion until you actually know what you are talking about. Also, in the comment above you, she said nothing about toying with witchcraft. lol. You just need to either just stop talking or find out the truth for yourself. I’m also curious as to what you find “suitable”. What about movies and books that portray, sex, violence, and hatred for other people? If my calculations are correct, you would say no. They are not suitable for christian’s. So why attack one series and not every other movie out there? Also, those websites and opinions of people that you take so wholeheartedly as the truth instead of finding out for yourself, also said that the new movie Deadpool, portrayed scenes and dialogue that explicitly said that Christianity is not real. Well news flash, and quite a big shocker, they were wrong. Imagine that. So if you want to limit yourself to someone else’s opinion then go ahead and look like an idiot. Otherwise, I recommend you do your own research and actually view the content in YOUR EYES instead of someone else’s.
The Harry Potter books mention the Bible. Harry’s parents have a verse from the Bible inscribed on their tombstone. JK Rowling is a Christian. She goes to church regularly. She used the Harry Potter Story as a metaphor for Christian morality. Harry’s story is a resurrection metaphor. SHE DID NOT STUDY WITCHCRAFT.
You have no proof she didn’t. She could say anything she wanted to you.
Let me also say, going to church makes you a Christian like being in a garage makes you a car. It doesn’t.
And so what? Many people who are not Christians use scripture. They use it becuase they think it sounds cool, or they’ll get the right attention. (And a multitude of other reasons)
I understand you enjoy these books, but I beseech you, please reconsider, please read scripture please pray about it! I only do this because I honestly care about your well being.
I understand where you’re coming from, but have to disagree that the series is in any way dangerous to myself as a strong Christian. The rumors going around that Rowling studied the occult for her books aren’t true; on the contrary, she has said several times to reporters and talk show hosts that she doesn’t believe in magic, is CHRISTIAN, and has included Christian themes in the series. The “spells” in the stories are made up (and mostly rather ridiculous; the few people in the world who have attempted them have yielded no results whatsoever), and any mention of divination is made light of among the magical characters. The series itself does not “focus on” witchcraft as you say, but includes the concept of magic as a part of a made-up world as many other books do, like the Chronicles of Narnia or Lord of the Rings.
As a final, personal note, I have had no experience of the series drawing me from my relationship with Jesus or my desire to do His will. I have always believed that with any story, whether book or film, it is important to be in control of them, enjoying them for what they’re worth, and not let them control you. I appreciate Harry Potter as a story, nothing more, and have never, nor will ever, allow it or anything of this world to come between me and my relationship with God. I hope this answer satisfies you and those reading along. 🙂
I don’t think you do. (I don’t mean that rudely at all, but simply as a factual statement)
If you did, you’d agree, or at least have considered the possibility of truth.
Here is why I am steadfast in my hatred of Harry Potter:
Galatians 5: 19-20 (NIV)
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
Deuteronomy 18:10-11 (Emphasis on engaging in witchcraft, engage defined as attraction, occupying or involving, so anything where witchcraft attracts, occupies, or involves you… IE: HP)
10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.
And if that is not enough, I do have these:
http://www.pacinst.com/witch.htm
http://harrypotterpower.com/
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Wicca%20&%20Witchcraft/former_witch_exposes_harry_potter.htm
http://www.michaeljournal.org/potter.htm
By my eye, these make a clear statement: Firstly, Harry Potter has witchcraft in it. Secondly, witchcraft is in direct conflict with God.
Hopefully you will understand now why I take such a strong stance, I truly don’t mean to come across as judgmental or unforgiving, but this is a very, very important issue at hand.
You guys do know that JK Rowling (the author of Harry Potter) quoted the Bible in Harry Potter and has said that Harry was baptized and does regularly go to church right? The whole Harry Potter is Occult garbage started from the Onion and you guys fell for it. http://www.mtv.com/news/1572107/harry-potter-author-jk-rowling-opens-up-about-books-christian-imagery/
There are no necromacers in the world of Harry Potter. It is even clearly stated there that no magic can revive the death.
That is the entire point of a fantasy story though. Tolkien was creating a make believe world that has very little to do with our own in a realistic sense. There are elves, dwarves, goblins and dragons! He wrote a letter to a friend that is been made a forward to the second edition to his book “the Silmarillion”, a prequel to the Lord of the Rings. Try and look it up. It isn incredibly informative regarding his ideas behind his stories. For example, he states that his use of the word “magic” is simply for lack of any better word in the English language. Same would go for wizard. He calls Gandalf and wizard because that is what the common folk call him because of his ability to do incredible and seemingly mystical things. He is not practicing magic however, but simply makes my use of his abilities inherent in his nature as a sort of lower level angel. And I use the term angel loosely because he isn’t an angel any more than “Eru Illuvator” his “God” character in the story is actually God. Because it is a work of fiction! You cannot equate his work of fiction with reality. Or his make believe “magic” system. In no way does he ever glorify evil, in fact being a Christian in fact and not just in claim (do your research), as well as a war vet, he knew evil first hand and hated it.
Harry Potter though…. I have not read the books, but I have seen the movies. I loved them! Whimsical, fun, enjoyable by all means. But the biggest difference I saw was formerly pointed out here as well. There is an ultimate evil in the story, Voldemort, but no ultimate good, not even Harry himself. It leaves an interesting gap in the ideology considering the sort of story it is. That being said, I’d leave it up to individuals to make the call there. However with Lord of the Rings, there is absolutely no harm at all to any Christian heart in those books!! Please follow up on my suggestion and look far deeper into the background and content of the story. I have read the lord of the rings and the Hobbit AND the Sillmarillion several times as well as other related works. It is good and pure and wonderful. High myth and legend. Epic good vs evil. Please read it and enjoy!! It is not what you think. It is far better than you could hope!!
Hello everyone,
I have struggled with this myself for several years. A while back, I talked with my mother about it (she is not much of a fan of fantasy in general, but not absolutely against it either) and she gave me permission to read it. That was somewhere around the end of middle school/ beginning of high school and I just started college last August. I have mixed feelings on Harry Potter. I have found it very tempting to read them, but I have doubts as to whether or not it would be sinful. As a result, I decided to not read them at that time.
This summer, I began the process of reconsidering my decision. I am older than I was before. I talked to my mom again and received the same answer: go ahead. However, she requested that I not read them in front of my younger sister because there were other, better books that she needed my sister to read and enjoy first.
That all said, I have not read them yet. I don’t want to read them if I am not certain of my decision. Once I read them, I can’t undo it. So I want to be sure. Some of the reasons not to read them don’t really apply to me. I am 18 years old and understand the difference between reality and make believe. Others do. I don’t want to cause others to stumble (probably one of the strongest cases against HP in my opinion- I have seen first hand how frustrating it is on the receiving end).
Anyway, this isn’t anything new, but I wanted to share because it just seems as I research this topic is that there are several categories of people in regards to HP:
for it
against it
curious/ investigating parents
kids whose parents won’t let them read it
I find myself slightly unique in this debate because I have permission from my parents, but am investigating the subject myself. (Also, I am an 18 year old who has never read them by their own choice, but is not 100% anti-Potter)
I hope this helps. Sorry for the long post.
JK Rowling is a born again Christian. The book quotes the Bible. Harry was baptized. IT IS NOT AGAINST CHRISTIANITY.
Please don’t misunderstand me. I have read them since I posted last and enjoyed them and find nothing wrong with them personally. However, I would hesitate to tell someone that they are perfectly alright to read. The later books aren’t for small children. If it violates their conscience, people shouldn’t read them. So here I am- having read Harry Potter- and still not holding strongly to either the do read or don’t read side of the argument. I honestly can’t recall Biblical quotes and would like to know how you know that Harry was baptized. I think that we have blown this subject way out of proportion. I can read Harry Potter and don’t believe that it will affect my salvation, but I choose not to advertise this fact because I don’t want to be a stumbling block like so many people were to me when I was unsure about the series. If you believe that it is wrong to read Harry Potter, I totally understand why you would try to persuade as many people as possible. BUT, when you are OK with reading it, I don’t think it is right to force your opinion on others because you could cause others to stumble. Do you want to have to answer to Christ on judgement day if on your advice someone violated their conscience?
I don’t wish to get into an internet shouting match, but felt that I needed to reply as well as update my comments.
On Harry’s parents’ graves it says “The Last Enemy to be defeated is death” this is from the Bible. Also their is a Bible quote used when talking about Dumbledore’s sister. The interview I posted with JK Rowling talks about this. SHE IS A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN!!!
Making it short-
I think Harry Potter is fine, as long as it doesn’t occupy your mind more than God does.
That, I think, is where idolism starts; thinking of something else more often than you think of God.
And if you notice my profile picture, I’m also a Doctor Who Fan. Mind you, that one, it depends on the episode. There are two in season two or three that are downright offensive, just cause the new villain of the episode was Satan, which really bugged me.
I turned it off. That episode was trash.
So I don’t think about it.
I’m sorry but I find this whole thing a little silly. I have nothing against Christians and I think what they believe is mostly very good and right. However, denying anyone the right to read I do not think is right. If you do not want to read the books for your own reasons, that’s fine, but your missing out on a pretty epic and important series. As I mentioned before, the thing that really annoys me is when other people stop people from reading books. If you want to read those books, READ THEM, they are FABULOUS! Don’t let anyone stop you. I don’t think God would mind you reading.
You guys do know that JK Rowling (the author of Harry Potter) quoted the Bible in Harry Potter and has said that Harry was baptized and does regularly go to church right? The whole Harry Potter is Occult garbage started from the Onion and you guys fell for it. http://www.mtv.com/news/1572107/harry-potter-author-jk-rowling-opens-up-about-books-christian-imagery/
Let me firstly say, quoting scripture does not make you Christian. Satan quoted scripture (Jesus in the desert.)
Harry Potter revolves around witchcraft. Whether real or pretend, the bible is clear on witchcraft. Have nothing to do with it. Whether you think it’s pretend or for real. The bible doesn’t differentiate between that, and neither should you. I understand it may be difficult to let go, I have had to let go of things I loved so that my walk with God would continue to grow well. But honestly, the sooner the better. Why not read C.S Lewis’s space trilogy books? They are fantastic, and based outside of magic and or witchcraft.
I agree wholeheartedly! Thank you so much @Joseph Chastain!
I love the fact that you had to use an Mtv article to authenticate Christianity.
I am aware that this discussion is old, but I just have to say something.
I LOVE Lord of the Rings, the Silmarillion, anything Middle-earth, okay? And my parents are totally fine with this. BUT, I’m not allowed to read Harry Potter. This is probably because my parents have heard a lot about the whole “witchcraft” thing—as far as I know, they haven’t personally looked into it much. I’m chill with this, because I’ll decide for myself whether to read it or not when I’m older.
But here’s the thing. A lot of people in these comments are seemingly at two extremes: either witchcraft is condemned in the Bible and Harry Potter is of the devil, or J.K. Rowling is a born-again Christian and Harry Potter is full of Christian allegory.
To the first group: Magic in fiction is different from magic in the Bible BECAUSE THERE ARE NO DEMONS INVOLVED. Witchcraft is forbidden in the Bible because it involves getting demons to actively fulfill your commands. As far as I know, whatever other flaws Harry Potter may have, the kids are NOT using demons. The magic is an unexplained power they inherited.
To the second group: I wouldn’t personally call J.K. Rowling a good Christian. She’s a nominal Catholic… and she said Dumbledore was gay. There may still be Christian allegory, but I don’t think she’s “born-again.”
Anyway, that’s all. Thanks for reading.
I’ve always wondered where the source of power comes from in the Harry Potter books.
As a side note, I willingly do not read it. I have better things to catch up on.
Back to Harry Potter. I mean, yeah, it’s a story of good vs evil, love triumphs over death, willingness to sacrifice, and people can relate to that. I mean, the Bible is exactly like that!
But this lead me to the next question in my mind: where does all the magic, spells and power come from in Harry Potter? I may not read Harry Potter, but I do know that wherever magic comes from in fiction books, it doesn’t necessarily come from God, or Aslan, or that Emperor-from-Beyond-the-Sea or something. In fact, most books featuring wizards and witches using magic (subtly) tell us that magic, or more importantly, POWER, comes from within you, and it just needs to be controlled.
In Genesis 3, the Bible speaks of Satan, through the serpent, promising Eve the POWER of knowing good and evil, not through God, but through indulging in a simple fruit.
“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.” -Genesis 3:4-5
This idea of wizards and witches channel the power of magic, regardless of its use for either good and evil, is not of God. In fact, magic, which we should now call, God’s POWER, is used for the sole purpose in fulfilling God’s will and for God’s glorification. Look again at the verses, and see what Satan promises when we indulge in powers beside’s God’s- “and ye shall be as GODS” (emphasis added).
Doesn’t it make sense? This whole idea that wizards and witches use their powers for good or evil purposes is not the point, the point is that wizards and witches are known in books to get their magic from an unknown source, and using that magic for their own wants.
(Please note I haven’t watched or read LOTR, not because I’m not allowed, but because I haven’t the want to.) (I don’t mean to do any other books including LOTR and Harry Potter an injustice, because I haven’t read them.) (I still think Gandalf is cool.)
This is sin – wanting to be God. Lying, stealing, cheating are all instances of wanting to be God. It’s giving into the opposite of God’s will for you. Notice I defined it as “giving into the opposite of God’s will for you” because when you follow and love God, your will is God’s will. I mean, I don’t think Harry Potter prays to Jesus Christ asking if killing Voldemort is in his will and plan for human salvation. (I have friends who are Potterheads, btw.) He doesn’t trust in God! And if he does, wouldn’t that show in the books?
Plus, he had a baby baptism; it’s not like he had a choice.
As I have heard, the themes in Harry Potter are good vs evil, love triumphs over death, willingness to sacrifice, etc. The perfect hero story. But as superheroes rely on scientific accidents to give them their superhuman abilities, so we should rely on God by letting him work through us and letting our lights shine in this dark and sinful world, and I believe that Harry Potter is relying on the wrong fruit, and is only encouraging people to rely on themselves, and not God.
I’m a big Harry Potter fan but I still believe in God I’m not a Christian I’m a righteous person who loves God and Jesus very much
I do not read Harry Potter, but I have friends who do. I see it influences them a bit, because everything we read/watch influences us somehow.
Consider for a moment the series Narnia, specifically the book about the lion, the witch, and the wardrobe. Does it have a witch? Yeah, it does. But does it say positive things about the witch? No, it doesn’t. It actually shows that the lion destroys the witch.
And that’s the point. It’s not the question if the book/movie includes witches, it’s actually if it positively shows witches or if it is in a disapproving way.
Also, remember the Bible verse in Ephesians 5:11 : “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.” (KJV) And Galatians 5:20 will list sins: “…Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies…
Witchcraft is included in these, and Harry Potter is a witch, so… I think you got my point..