The Responsibility of Modesty (Part One)
The following article was submitted as a text response to TheRebelution.com’s Modesty Survey. We share it with you because the author provides an excellent summation of men’s responsibility in this area.
~ A Christian Guy - Age 20 ~ Let’s be honest. We’re men, and we’re responsible for ourselves. We’re responsible for our thoughts, for our lusts, for our character. We won’t be able to blame the girls when we’re called to give account for it in the judgment day. We won’t be able to say like Adam, “The woman you made…”
In fact, the Bible warns us that if our eyes are causing us to offend, it would be better to pluck it out than to allow it to lead us astray. Now you girls don’t want that to happen… Please?
We are responsible for bringing these senses into subordination to the will of God. We’re trying. And we get tested every day. That’s our job wherever we are, whether in the world or in church. But quite honestly, we’d rather do our battles with the world than with our sisters in Christ.
- The Modesty Survey Petition: A list of seven encouragements from Christian guys to the girls reading the survey results.
- The Soul of Modesty: C.J. Mahaney’s heart-focused, grace-filled, gospel-centered audio message on the topic of modesty. Made specially available for free download by Sovereign Grace Ministries.
- The Responsibility of Modesty (Part 2): Excerpted from the survey results, a 22-year-old Christian man shares an insightful analogy explaining the responsibility of women to protect their brothers in Christ.
- The Purpose of Clothing: John Piper explains both the negative and positive messages God communicated by clothing Adam and Eve after they fell into sin.
- Free To Be Modest: Nancy Leigh DeMoss explains how living under the Ownership and Lordship of Jesus Christ, frees us to be modest.
February 5th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
…And of course, the companion issue to that is that we, as Christian women, are not to do anything to offend our brothers. So in the same way that they are to cut out their eyes if they are offended, we are to avoid even things that are not technically sinful, if they cause our brothers to stumble. (Like not eating pork in front of someone that eats only kosher meat…)
THERE’s food for thought!
February 5th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Great point. It’s our own responsibility to guard our eyes, but it’s sure a great help if girls are willing to think about us.
February 5th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
God has really convicted me through this whole survey. Thank you for this article. Praying for you guys!
February 5th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
Loved the whole thing about this survey. Are there any blinkies available to the results?
I have made a self-thought descision about choosing to be modest.
February 5th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Wow. That’s really good. Very powerful.
Thanks.
February 5th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
Great thought; but even without the concern for us males, a young lady has an incredible priviledge to respect herself by dressing modestly. The truth is, we respect you so much more when you don’t hide your Christlikeness with worldly dress (or undress). Do yourself a favor; most importantly, do the Kingdom a service and dress to glorify our Groom
Thanks!
February 5th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Mr. Mahaney made an interesting comment during his sermon. He said something to the effect of he finds modest women attractive. If that’s true, it would seem that Christian men aren’t communicating the positive benefits of modesty as well as they might, because Christian young ladies certainly don’t seem to understand/believe Mr. Mahaney’s statement. It’s interesting to combine his statement to that of the Christian guy’s: “But quite honestly, we’d rather do our battles with the world than with our sisters in Christ.” What a gap in understanding girls have if the feedback we are receiving is accurate!
February 5th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
Becky: My brain is a little fuzzy right now.
Would you mind clarifying what you meant by your comment? What is it that Christian young ladies believe? How do the statements by Mr. Mahaney and this young man conflict with those beliefs? And in what ways do you think Christian men fail to communicate?
Whew. I hope that didn’t come across as a cross-examination!
I’m pretty sure I get what you’re saying, but I think it would be helpful to everyone for you to explain more thoroughly. Thanks so much!
February 5th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
That’s a blessing from a young man who really knows what Modesty is all about! Thankyou for posting it - I absolutly cannot wait to see the results! God bless you all!
Lamentations 3:23-24
February 5th, 2007 at 5:10 pm
This guy hit the nail on the head. This survey and all the activity around it has really helped me put into words the thoughts I had on this topic. Thanks for putting this on.
Still dying to know what other participation for the guys you kept mentioning in the subscription emails….
February 5th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
It’s coming, Brian!
February 5th, 2007 at 6:01 pm
Wow. That was an awesome statement. Thanks for sharing, Alex and Brett! I truly appreciate it.
Here’s a thought… once the results of the Modesty Survey are posted; we girls are being held accoutable to change how we dress. (if what we wear makes our brothers in Christ stumble.)
February 5th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
This is great! Thanks for posting it.
I want to dress in a way that will not only honor my brothers in Christ, but cause people to look past me and see my Lord. If I am not glorifying Him, then it is all for nothing.
I can’t wait to see the final modesty survey results! Thank you for helping us girls do our very best to glorify our King and honor those we care about.
February 5th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
I hope you don’t mind, I copied this message to my blog.
Thank you so much for truly stepping up as a Christian brother and sharing your concern with us. I think what’s hard for alot of Christian women, especially for me personally, is a lack of communication on my brothers’ part… not knowing if I’ve caused them to stumble, not knowing if I’ve made a difference with my current efforts. And though I know just doing my best to please God should be enough, it truly means alot for my Christians brothers to communicate thier concern or encouragement. Of course I ultimately wish we lived in a Christian society that was so radically different, there would be no comparison between the habits of us and the world. We live in such a grey world, where limits are boundaries are being stretched farther and farther as more and more do whatever they can to be accepted by an unreasonable culture, and sometime even justify it by Scripture (wrongly), while they know better in their hearts. I know this because I’m one who struggles with it daily. Now that I’ve gotten carried away…
I look forward to reading more as this wonderful Modesty Survey blossoms. Thank you, Alex and Brett, for making this possible.
February 5th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Wow! Great post! I’m a student at a community college and the message that comes across there, so often, is that if you want to be noticed and well liked by guys, dress revealing. So it has been so great to be able to come here and be reminded that there are many guys that do value and appreciate modesty!
I’m looking forward to being able to reading the modesty survey results!!! Thanks guys, for the encouragement!
February 5th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
We all (both men and women) will stand before the Lord to give an account for our actions and thoughts. Thank-you for posting these fellas.
It’s always nice to hear from young men who get it.
February 6th, 2007 at 6:47 am
You know, the timing on all this is, well, divine. I’ve been struggling a lot lately trying to figure out what my responsibilities in the area of modesty are. Thanks Jess, your comments are helping me.
February 6th, 2007 at 7:15 am
Oops. Sorry for being confusing! I almost didn’t post the comment because I was concerned it wasn’t too clear… but here’s a shot at explaining things better!
This is probably going to reveal some of my own personal opinions, but as a girl, and talking with other girls we seem to believe that guys find us more attractive if we dress immodestly. We may understand the “spiritual” importance of dressing modestly for our fellow believers (ie not causing to stumble with his eyes), but even I find it hard to believe most Christian men would concur with Mr. Mahaney’s comment about finding modest women attractive. It’s not for lack of “modesty talks”, but for lack of appreciation, maybe? I don’t believe it’s the place for young men to correct young women on their clothing (except within a famial unit), but when the majority of Christian guys (or at least the ones I’m around ;)) seem seek out and favor those girls that dress immodestly, it gives modestly-dressing girls room to question their sacrifice and commitment to dressing modestly.
Oh, I think I’m being confusing, but basically I would contend that most girls have an extremely different view of modesty than most guys. Girls not only have a grossly inaccurate understanding of how their bodies affect guys (or… I’m finding my view is in major revisement! ;)), but they also underestimate the appreciation with which Christian guys value modest girls. And, yes, I understand that is why the modesty survey is taking place, so please don’t take this comment as criticism!
I hope I’ve answered your questions, Brett, and if I haven’t, feel free to delete all the comments and e-mail me if you wish. =)
February 6th, 2007 at 8:30 am
You are all doing a great job. I so appreciate the way you desire to glorify God with your lives.
I have three brothers and I have a slight understanging of what a struggle you guys go through every day. From what I have observed, you seem to be doing a great job. : )
February 6th, 2007 at 9:24 am
“In fact, the Bible warns us that if our eyes are causing us to offend, it would be better to pluck it out than to allow it to lead us astray. Now you girls don’t want that to happen… Please?”
Ouch…if this comment doesn’t make girls want to dress modestly, I’m not sure what will!
February 6th, 2007 at 9:37 am
Becky: That was a great explanation! Thank you for clarifying. Alex and I really feel that the Modesty Survey will go a long way towards changing misconceptions on the part of girls, but also to raise the level of appreciation communicated from guys to girls. That’s why we’re releasing the results on St. Valentines Day, as a big “Thank You” gift to our sisters in Christ who dress modestly.
February 6th, 2007 at 10:33 am
Oh yes! Becky hit the nail on the head. If you observe guys, it seems like none of them care about modesty. I observe guys at church and it always ends up that the girls wearing the least clothes get talked to the most. I saw this as guys not caring about modesty, but in talking to a few, it turns out that some do. Maybe this is not a universal problem, but it sure is around here (Massachusetts). It would be nice if the guys I interact with could show their appreciation for modesty more.
February 6th, 2007 at 11:05 am
I have a few problems with this.
1. The way modesty is talked about seems to imply that men are more sexual than women, which is simply not true. Women also struggle in this area. Women are also visual — shouldn’t men be modest too? Women and girls also masturbate (YES, they do), have impure thoughts, and urges. Denying women’s sexuality is a common theme in Christian churches. You haven’t directly denied this, but the implication is there. This discussion of modesty is consistent with “men are sexual, women are sexual objects” mode of thought. Examples of things men do that could case women to stumble: taking off their shirts to play basketball, wrestling with other men in shirts that lift up, the way they stand, wearing heavy cologne, wearing clothing that is too revealing in the gym (like a loose tank top). Have you ever seen a man pull his shirt quickly down over his exposed abdomen? Not often, but uhm, it’s very visual to me.
2. I think a careful balance needs to be taken when talking about women needing to be modest. It could only worsen our rape culture. Some people could go too far with this and start to think, even subtly, even subconsciously that women are responsible for men’s actions — the implication being they are at fault for rape. The “asking for it” philosophy. I think you should address this more directly, more aggressively, because I’m sure that’s not your intention. Why not start a series of posts about men’s responsibility to not promote the rape culture in our society? That would be powerful. Since men do the raping, why not tell them to stop promoting a culture that encourages its men to rape. And to not rape us! It’s not often discussed in the Christian community.
February 6th, 2007 at 11:58 am
Jane: The Modesty Survey does not directly deny women’s sexuality, but neither does it do so indirectly. If I was both hungry and thirsty I would need to choose to either eat first or drink first. Neither decision would deny the existence of the other urge, but would only reflect what I believed to be my greatest need. As it is, requests for a Female Modesty Survey far outweighed requests for a Male Modesty Survey. Our decision, therefore, was based, not on the denial of women’s sexuality, but on the principle of doing one thing at a time, very well.
February 6th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
Jane,
I agree with you. Men need to be held responsible for their actions. There should be no arguments about skirt hems and necklines. Men should be able to control themselves. God gave us a brain! Men should have a little bit more self control and not go crazy when they see an ankle or collor bone.
Graham
Moderator Note: It appears (from information only we are privy to) that this user is a woman, not a man, and that this comment is intentionally deceptive in that regard. If additional clarification is provided we will remove this disclaimer.
February 6th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
I think maybe the reason some guys appreciate girls who dress modestly is because they can be around them, talk to them, etc, with much more ease and without having to constantly battle lust with their eyes (at least to a much lesser degree).
That said, the guys who appear to favor girls who dress immodestly maybe aren’t concerned with guarding their eyes from lust. Or maybe they don’t struggle with this problem as much as others.
Just a thought. Dressing to please God should be the most important priority.
February 6th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
Great post..thanks for putting it up. I’m definitely looking forward to the 14th!!!
February 6th, 2007 at 1:00 pm
“Just a thought. Dressing to please God should be the most important priority.”
Thank you, McFarnell, for reminding us girls of that.
February 6th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
Wow. That really put it in perspective. I’ve noticed many times people tend to levitate to the two extremes: It’s all the girl’s fault, they should dress so the guys don’t fall, or it’s all the guy’s fault what he does and doesn’t do. This really brings in a balance. Thanks!
February 6th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
Brett: Thanks for your response. It’s just that women’s sexuality is rarely discussed openly in an affirming way in the Christian community and that’s such a shame. I for one think it’s sorely needed.
Of course I was being facetious about a male modesty survey. I really just wanted to point out the common imbalance in Christian communities regarding sexuality.
I WAS serious about addressing the rape culture though. How bout it, Brett?
How bout a survey and a big campaign where women can let men know the things they do or say or accept or just don’t object to that promotes a rape culture?
February 6th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Jane: I’m not Brett, but I’m his twin brother, which hopefully is just as good. We agree that the very real problem of female lust is often ignored in the Christian community. Actually, our older brother, Josh, wrote a book on the topic of lust and purity (titled Sex is Not the Problem, Lust Is) that was written to both guys and girls, not just to guys. I’m not aware of any other books like that.
As to encouraging a rape culture, you need not worry about the Modesty Survey in that regard. As to discouraging a rape culture, Brett and I would likely support a balanced discussion and campaign on the issue, particularly if it was Christian-led. However, I do not see us leading the discussion ourselves.
While we’re discussing it, a book that presents very balanced look at feminine modesty (more than just clothing) and the realities and solutions of modern “rape culture” is Wendy Shalit’s book A Return to Modesty: Discovering the Lost Virtue.
February 6th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
Becky: I completely agree that most men seem to be much more attracted to the women who dress immodestly, but I wanted to share something from my experience as an encouragement. Not all young men are like that; in fact, I was having a conversation with some young men from our church about what they find attractive in a women, and they said that they are actually more attracted to the women who dress modestly. They said that they find it much more attractive for a women to wear modest clothes than immodest clothes! I don’t know too many men would are like that, but I think that young men with a commitment to purity will actually respect and therefore be more attracted to the women who have made a similar commitment to modesty.
February 6th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
Becky and Katie: Be encouraged. The Modesty Survey is made up of over 1,500 Christian guys who are more attracted to women who dress modestly.
February 6th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
I see a question emerging: If there are two gals in a room — one dressed modestly, and another dressed immodestly, which will a man’s eyes be drawn to?
I’d like to answer that question, based on my own experience, but which I think is true for the vast majority of Christian guys who are truly committed to physical and spiritual purity. For background, I got married at the age of 26, was a virgin when I married, and have been married to that same woman for 15 years.
My eyes will be drawn, at least for an instant, to an immodestly-dressed gal. No ifs, ands or butts (pardon the pun). It’s the way God designed me, and the way God designed all men. If He didn’t design men that way, it’s doubtful many people would get married. Most of the benefits of marriage simply aren’t on the radar of most young couples. Sex most certainly is. A man’s need for sexual satisfaction serves God’s purpose for drawing him into a marriage relationship, through which both husband and wife can experience a plethora of blessings and trials, and be drawn closer to God and Christ-likeness.
So a man’s eyes are attracted to the female form because that’s the way God designed us. Satan, by leading our culture to embrace immodesty, subverts God’s design for his own evil purposes. As others have testified, it is a constant battle for me. When I see an immodestly-dressed woman, I have to physically turn my head and ask God for strength to overcome the temptations before me. It is difficult, at that point, to maintain charitable feelings towards the immodestly-dressed woman.
With all that as background, here’s my answer to the opening question:
As a rule, every man’s eyes will be drawn initially to the immodestly-dressed woman. What happens next is the important thing. A Christian man committed to purity will avert his eyes, and probably turn to the modestly-dressed woman with a sigh of relief.
Here’s my bottom line for the gals: Almost every man will be aroused by an immodest woman. Almost no Godly man will respect an immodest woman.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:18 am
Well said, John R.
February 7th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
One thing is that it is hard for young men to tell a modest young woman that they appreciate her modesty! I have a cousin who has always been careful to be modest, however, and young men who know both her and her father have told her father they have noticed her carefullness and appreciate it. This is an appropriate way to give a modest girl a big encouragement!
I think we all have trouble treating people equally regardless of how they look. Even a modestly dressed beautiful woman will receive more attention than a plain one. I myself am less likely to approach and befriend a strange looking person. May I learn to see with the eyes of God — man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart.
February 7th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
Just wanted to share a story real quick about what godly young men find attractive. I was with a guy friend at a University function, and the school’s cheerleaders were doing a very suggestive dance routine, wearing clothes which actually embarrased me.
Even though I knew their dress and behavior was very immodest and inappropriate, (and I care very much about modesty) some annoying voice inside me kept saying, ‘oh, if you dress like you do now, no one will ever pay you any attention, and you will NEVER marry.’
Then, I happened to look over at my friend, and he was looking the other way, deliberately NOT watching the cheerleaders’ routine. On other occasions, I’ve seen him frown slightly after a skimpily dressed girl walks by.
The girls who dress and act in order to flaunt their ‘beauty’ are just making a fool of themselves for guys who don’t really care about the girl’s hearts or souls.
This friend of mine that I mentioned is a great christian gentleman, and he’s one of our teen-age brothers in Christ who appreciate modesty and inner beauty.
I observe a bunch of guy/girl interactions at my school, and I hear a lot of comments from guys about other girls, along the lines of “Whoo, look at that skirt and those legs!”
It disgusts me, for one that the guys would say that (and I have heard much worse, but am trying to keep this comment g-rated…) and it bothers me that the girls would subject themselves to it. Those girls may think the guys admire them, but from what I see, the guys admire their bodies, which is completly different. My brothers (I have many) and my brother-in-Christ that I wrote about admire my heart… (and my brothers all happen to think I’m pretty too, and my older bro. keeps me in check with what I wear. If I ever wonder, ‘is this modest’ he’ll tell me. Once, I bought a shirt, I thought it cute and innocent, he didn;t think so. he told me (and I’ll never )forget it “it looks pretty, but it’s kinda like a barbie shirt. And guys don’t play with barbie dolls, but they may play with the real thing. And I don’t really want any guys messing around with my sister.” I returned the shirt ;P )
Sorry this is a jumbled mess of a comment. I just want to encourage you girls out there, the young men WILL notice if you dress modestly, and if they are the right type of men, they’ll appreciate you for it. And don’t sell yourself short by trying to catch someone who just likes long legs…
Please note, I’m not trying to say that the whole lust problem is only caused by the way a girl dresses, but since I’m not a guy, I don’t feel like I can address that side of the issue, I can just encourage all the girls out there to honor God and our brothers by dressing modestly.
February 8th, 2007 at 9:06 am
Becky and Katie - Don’t worry ladies! You WILL find the right young man. I did. You don’t really want one of the young men who spends all his time drooling all over the immodest (and often worldly - have you noticed how the two so often go hand in hand?) girls. Wait for a young man who appreciates your modesty. They are few and far between these days, but our God is able to bring them along. Just keep waiting and don’t give up or give in!! There are other modest girls rootin’ for you!!
February 8th, 2007 at 10:30 am
I have only found this site recently, and am impressed. This modesty survey is a great idea -a modest way of getting the information out.
Becky’s post here also got me thinking. I realise it has already been answered pretty well, and you probably already know this, but I’d like to share still.
The kind of man that I wish to someday marry, if that is the Lord’s will, is a godly one, whose eyes are focused on Him desiring to live a holy life as He is holy. That doesn’t mean he will be perfect, we all fall at times. As Paul says in Rom. 7:22-23, (For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.) so do our brothers in Christ. God made woman for the man and in its place, it is beautiful, as is a magnificent horse obedient to his master, whether with him under control or free in the paddock. But I do not want to cause anyone to be drawn by the flesh. (1. It is sin for me to do so 2. God commands women to dress and act modestly 1Tim.2:9 3.It’s not fair on the brethren, we need to be kind 4. It’s not the kind of guy I want) Rather as Christ obeyed His Father even unto death, may all Christian young men endeavor to live as living sacrifices guided by their Heavenly Father (Rom. 12;1-2), learning to love and care for their future wives as Christ did the Church (Eph.5). And may we women learn that true beauty is found in following God and His way, keeping our hearts and bodies, waiting to be led by our Father to one, as the Bride (Church) is to Christ, to whom we can submit, reverence (respect), encourage and help (assist).
February 9th, 2007 at 11:02 am
I wanted to drop a quick line to add a little interesting story for y’all.
Before I met my wonderful husband, I had the bad taste to get interested in a man who was not what he ought to be. It’s a long story, and most of the details are not relevant, but I will share that he was far from being “plagued” by the lust he was indulging in his life. (It didn’t take me very long to become uninterested when I figured out what he was.)
We were having a discussion at one point, and I know not why, but somehow the topic of “hottie” celebrity girls like Britney Spears came up. I expressed rather serious annoyance at the fact that it seemed like modest young women got no respect from the media and most young men, but a girl they could never have–and who would never stoop to speak to them–was so often the focus of all the men’s attentions.
The man’s response: “Well, here’s the thing. Guys like to fantasize about being physical with Britney Spears–but when it’s time to get married, we look for someone like you.”
It was a half-baked sort of affirmation, but it indicated that deep down, despite his obsession with whatever “hottie” he was wasting his brainpower on, he knew what he really needed. Fortunately, my husband is a lot smarter. (And better looking. And a real Christian man.)
And that said, I’d also like to throw something out to “Jane”: Um, dear heart, where do you get this notion that there IS a “rape culture” in this country? This isn’t the Middle East; I think you’re confusing fundamentalist Christians (”love your neighbor as yourself”) with radical Muslims (”rape victims are adulteresses who should die by stoning”). In fact, up until some bunch of fools decided that the death penalty was in violation of the Eighth Amendment, rape WAS punishable by death in the U.S. (Yes, capital punishment still happens in this country, but never for anything less than murder.) I daresay that it wasn’t the CHRISTIANS who minimized rape.
Should we denounce rape? Well, should we denounce murder and theft, too? Sure, if you think people are dumb enough to need it spelled out for them time and again.
February 9th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
Katie: What it boils down to (at least for me): My natural lusts are drawn to the immodest girl, but I wouldn\’t marry her. It\’s hard for me to respect her. I am drawn to the character of a modest women, even if I am not drawn to her by how pretty she is.
Sorry, just trying to boil all these huge posts down…
February 15th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
What is your definition of modesty? I wear skirts past my knees and always shirts with sleeves and of course long enough to cover all my skin. I even wear a loose skirt with shorts under, just in case, to the gym. I believe this is true modesty.
February 16th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
[...] The Responsibility of Modesty (Part 1): Excerpted from the survey results, a 20-year-old Christian man shares a powerful summation of men’s responsibility in this area. [...]
February 18th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
I am so gld you did the modesty survey. i have always struggled with what was modest and what’s not. I mean, iknow i can be modest in shapless ankle length dresses, but i also want to feel pretty, and that DEFINITELY wasn’t cutting it. I am so glad you guys were able to open with us. now that I know how to help fight, I can help so much better.
~natalie
March 26th, 2007 at 4:38 am
I found this survey through my online school (someone had posted it), and I thought it was very interesting. I have a question about what is modest though. I am an MK in Burkina Faso, Africa and I am concerned about being modest (as are my parents). Since I’ve grown up in Africa, I’ve worn shorts most of my life (and flip flops). The shorts are usually about knee-length…is that alright? They’re never tight against the body because to me that is very uncomfortable… I like shorts being loose so that I have room to move around. Are shorts immodest when you’re 13 years old (and older)? Also, getting girl’s clothing that isn’t immodest seems to be a problem (in the U.S. In Africa we just have our clothes tailor made and can design them ourselves). We can never find something that is modest and is my size. Because of this, I wear boy’s shorts (and pants) instead. Is that alright, or is that immodest? Thanks!
March 26th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
A side note, but I wanted to comment on Jess’s comparison at the beginning of the thread–because it is ignorant and mistaken. The laws of kashrut are incumbent on Jews, not on Gentiles. It is not “unfair” or “tempting” for a Jew to see a non-Jewish friend eating bacon. Jess’s comment suggests that seeing somebody do a permitted thing that is forbidden to us is somehow tempting, and that’s false. Also, a little insulting.
June 11th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
Reading this, I’m reminded of a scene in a famous French novel, Madame Bovary. In it, Dr. Bovary, who is in search of a wife, meets Emma for the first time. He rhapsodizes (internally - Victorian-era gentlemen didn’t say these things aloud) about the delicacy of her fingers, her shapely fingernails, the curve of her cheek - you get the idea. He gets quite lustful about the topic. Mind you, the object of his affections is clothed from neck to wrist to toe in stifling garments designed to hide her quite thoroughly from male gaze. And yet, he lusts.
It seems to me that women should be dressing out of respect for themselves and for God. Wearing a tent doesn’t accomplish that. Wearing only loose-fitting clothing doesn’t, either. The fact is, healthy men are going to experience lust when they look at a good-looking woman who takes care of herself reasonably well, especially if the woman in question falls into the demographic they’re supposed to be interested in, REGARDLESS of what the woman is wearing. Telling women that you need help to control your lust is putting the blame for your hormones on entirely the wrong shoulders. There’s a reason why we’re supposed to confess our sins regularly - it’s because we are certain to sin. Well, guys, guess what? If lust is a problem for you, you’d better get down on your knees, because it’s not my job to keep temptation from your eyes.
Actively setting out to seduce a person who is trying to lead a chaste life - that’s wrong. Dressing in a way that suits your body, your sense of style and modesty, and is appropriate for the situations in which you find yourself, and which happens to incite lust in some oversexed teenage males - that’s life.
August 28th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
Erin-
The last paragraph of your post seems rather subjective (Your “sense” of modesty?) It’s tricky to elaborate more,as it’s almost midnight and my brain is shutting down.
Also, I would point out that the situation dosn’t matter (swimming exercizing etc.), unless there are no guys around. After all, be don’t go blind whenever we go to the beach.
One last thing, christian modesty dose not entitle denying the shape of your body (Think giant pillowcase with arm holes and a neck hole) but aiding men in protecting their minds and promoting (
August 28th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
Whoops! My post got cut off there… Ah well. Heres what it was prabably going to be like:
…Promoting ( Sorry, best word I could think of) feminity.
Considering I’m not a very eloquent orater, I’ll let the quote that’s benn floating around sum it up:
“We [men] are responsible for bringing these senses [of lust] into subordination to the will of God. We’re trying. And we get tested every day. That’s our job wherever we are, whether in the world or in church. But quite honestly, we’d rather do our battles with the world than with our sisters in Christ.”
Amen! (If you met me in (real) life, I would never say that out loud, which is precisly the reason I’m doing it now.) And have a nice day/night.
September 10th, 2007 at 11:21 am
[...] Here’s Part One and Part Two [...]
September 23rd, 2007 at 9:02 pm
Wow. I just read what people have wrote since Feb. 5th 2007, the topic “Responsibility of Modesty”. It is very intersting to read everyone’s views on this subject. I would like to say thank you for all of your comments, they have really made me think about this. I am really trying to become the young women God wants me to be. But as you know, in our world that is quite a task, but I like the idea of doing hard things. God is totally worth doing hard things for. He is our Savior and Creator, and I hate to dissapoint Him. I am only human, it is inevitable. So I think that for the rest of this year I really need to be deep in His word and in prayer, that is the best way to be in His full armor.
Romans 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light.
Ephesians 6:10-13 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
And this chapter goes on to describe what the full armor of God is. Everyday we should eguip ourselfs in the Word, to protect our hearts and minds. If we do that, we are better equipped to face the difficulties of the world. Like lust. Which I noticed was a heavy topic in your comments. It is a heavy topic. And many places in the bible God has answers for all your questions, you just need to pray to Him for guidence, and let Him show you His answer. And He will, no doubt in that. It may not come in a bang, but I have noticed that Jesus likes to work in subtle ways. I think that is a lovely thought. He cares about us so much, that He doesn’t freak us out with His answers. I mean, if you really think about it, do you really want to know the answers to all your prayers the minute you pray them?? God has perfect timing. You might not really want the answers to everything, its too much for us to handle. Jesus protects us from that.
I dont know if any of this is making sense, but to be encouraged, read His word. I cant stress that enough.
I just read all that I have wrote(habit), and I noticed that I said “you” alot. I dont mean to be condemning, I need to aply all that to myself! It’s easy it give your opinion, but to practice what you preach is another thing. I will work on that myself. No one’s perfect!! And if you could pray for me, I am going to try to be the modest lady Jesus wants me too be. The survey really has put the way I dress in a whole new perspective.
He is our SAVIOR!! He has saved us!! From all sins!
So even with lusts of the flesh, we are forgiven.
God Bless you all! And thank you Alex and Brett! The Rebelution is changing my life! Its exciting!!! I’m on it all the time!! So thank you, and you will be in my prayers. And I hope I can go to one of the Rebelution Conference’s next year!
Your Sister in Christ,
Stephanie
September 25th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
MAN! THIS IS SOO THIRSTY QUENCHING TO TALK ABOUT GODLY THINGS, STRUGGLES ALL OF US HAVE. I mean let’s face it, God never said being a christian would be easy now would he? Guys, reading the modesty survey was great for me. One, I always try to make an effort of being modest. I am disgusted and sad at what girls are doing these days with their bodies…it’s like they’re sellilng they’re bodies to all who may look up on them. I have a father who thinks it’s a great importance for his daughters to dress modestly so as not to temp boys, and two to protect our purity. (Here’s a Thanks to you Dad for training me up to be a sheep of my dear sweet savior Jesus Christ) I think reading this really is encouraging, for I thought guys always clueless. Infact I didn’t even think they really cared about us girls. But, reading this helped me relize that guys do care about their sisters in Christ which to me…(please forgive me for saying this) is a surprise… I’m not being rude…snobby..or..anything..of the sort..Just I didn’t know that guys really respected modesty soo much! It’s amazing how God works isn’t it? I think it perfectly wonderful that guys respect modesty…and now I know. (man..I usually where an undershirt (and in summer..it killss..but I do want you brothers, to know I do it for you! and so that all may see me reflecting the Lord!) and man..it kills during the summer….but to know you guys care about modesty so much..MAN! THIS IS AWESOME!) I want you guys to know I’m praying for you! For, your..your purity, and that God guards your hearts! I do hope that this can be sooome encouragment to you all! Girls? I’m praying for you as well! Especially those who struggle with modesty. HANG IN THERE AND REMEMBER THAT IN EVERYTHING YOU DO DO IT ALL SO THAT GOD MAY BE GLORIFIED!
Well, all I still have Math to do..man..that sucks. Not, to mention chores. MAN! hahaha. And I’m baby sitting my siblings right now…(hey..the kids were nappin! not like i was being irrisponsible) (only joking..but they were napping) maybe i should tell ya…I’m thirteen and the oldest sister of six kids. And, ate still has math and chores..OH COME ON I DID ALL THE REST OF MY CHORSE..EXCEPT SWEEP! (oh..by the way ate means older sis..) (hahah I’m fillipeano..) (yes i know spelled that wrong..hey I’M THIRTEEN! GIVE ME A BREAK! MOST OF YOU ARE PROB LIKE..WHAT 15 AND SO ON? hahah) K later all.
October 2nd, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Thank you for posting this survey. I have had a lot of trouble with trying to figure out what is modest and what is not. Some things are obviously immodest (like mini-skirts), but I was very shocked by some of the results.
October 25th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
[...] The Responsibility of Modesty (Part 1): Excerpted from the survey results, a 20-year-old Christian man shares a powerful summation of men’s responsibility in this area. [...]
March 10th, 2008 at 8:16 am
This is incredible. It’s good to know how my actions, words, and dress are interpreted by guys. Loads of things on that list I would never even have thought of as being a prospective stumbling bock. It certainly sheds light on the responsibility of women to make sure that everything we do is pleasing in the sight of our Lord and therefore appropriate to “promote.”
~Mamie Elizabeth~
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:01 pm
this is great!! This survey has really helped me alot!!
July 17th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
vkihzus mvhpn
July 26th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
What I want to know is ….if there are so many guys out there who would rather have a modest christian woman….then why can’t i ever find one?
July 28th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
nmizyer
August 5th, 2008 at 3:09 am
ahdvw
August 17th, 2008 at 5:27 am
First of all, thank you Alex and Brett for starting this blog. What a blessing! I have a question for the guys. Wouls it be better for girls to only wear skirts? Or would pants be okay as long as they’re not tight? If only is said plain out in the Bible….” Girls, only wear skirts/pants”!!!!!
August 17th, 2008 at 5:28 am
I meant woulD :).
September 25th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
I agree with Heather! Why is it so hard to find guys who appreciate when a girl is trying to be modest?
Sarah
October 14th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Christian guy age 29,
In your post you write, “Let’s be honest. We’re men, and we’re responsible for ourselves… We won’t be able to blame the girls”.
The closing sentence in the same post is: “But quite honestly, we’d rather do our battles with the world than with our sisters in Christ.”
If, as you say, boys are responsible for themselves then why would you battle with Christian women?
October 19th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
But surely there isnt only just an issue with men struggling with lust through the issue of immodesty. ive met so many girls who genuinely struggle with bad thoughts through men dressing immodestly, and yet feel they can’t say anything because its portrayed as a “male sin”
November 24th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Girls, sometimes we can be so unfeeling towards our brothers when it comes to this. They do try, and we must try too. Mutual respect and responsibility is mandetory in order for us to cultivate pure thought lives and be good examples.
Guys, thank you for speaking up!
February 10th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
[...] The Responsibility of Modesty (Part 1): Excerpted from the survey results, a 20-year-old Christian man shares a powerful summation of men’s responsibility in this area. [...]
May 21st, 2009 at 10:20 pm
I want to thank all of the guys that did the survey. I honestly did not think that some of things I wear or do were immodest. I cried when I read some of the messages that guys my age left for us girls. I honestly never expected guys to feel the way that they do. I was speechless while reading it and again I want to thank you guys for all your input.
-Sara Beth
June 3rd, 2009 at 6:44 am
[...] the Modesty Survey The Soul of Modesty The Responsibility of Modesty (1) The Responsibility of Modesty (2) The Purpose of Clothing Free to be Modest Survey Endorsements [...]
September 22nd, 2009 at 8:44 pm
It is incredible, to me, to hear a guy say so openly, that it is an issue of a man’s heart.
I grew up with no brothers, but with a mother who condoned modesty, more than most. I was always happy to comply, because, as a young girl, I knew that there was a good reason for modesty, even though I didn’t fully understand it. As I entered the teen years, I was less concerned about my manner of dress, although, now I see that that is the time to be more careful. Now, thanks to the survey, I’m consistantly reminded, mentally, that, although it is an issue in my heart, I should show modesty in the way I dress. Thankyou for this survey, if it helped no one else, (which I can see that it did) it changed my mindset, and caused me to rething the way I dress.
September 24th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
I just wanted to encourage you boys to look at the girls in your life with a pure heart and look at them as sisters and think about all the good things like growing to god with each other preparing for the kingdom ! and ladies help the boys by this as u would your brothers. God has a special someone for you and you dont want to tell them that you have been checking out other girls now would you im not trying to condem but just to help you i will be praying for you
September 28th, 2009 at 9:13 am
Hello! I just found this thread and have thoroughly enjoyed reading it. What a blessing the modesty survey has been in my life! I pray that I can repay the honesty of these young men who have been so open about this issue, with how I dress and conduct myself in social circles.
Apparently this thread has dwindled down, but I have a few questions of my own, and if anyone would mind answering them I’d greatly appreciate it.
The main question I have, has to do with the responsibility of church leaders to hold those in the congregation accountable in the way they choose to conduct themselves. Why does it seem that the issue of modesty is so very hard to address in our churches and so-called Christian organizations?
In my last years of high school, I was surprised to witness the apparent blurring of lines in our homeschool circles. Those who have chosen to step aside and stand for morals that our nation’s education system ignores and almost mocks, seem to have suddenly let all they stand for slip into oblivion.
In my opinion, our leaders are failing in holding us accountable. A girl of any age, sometimes can’t be trusted to know herself well enough to be able to conclude in her own terms what is acceptable in the sight of the Lord. We need examples to follow and standards to be set. If our fathers and mothers allow us to walk out the door in clothing that reflects everything secular society embraces, the young lady will assume they condone her choices, and that there is nothing wrong with the way she dresses. If our earthly fathers condone secular dress, will we not assume that our Heavenly Father condones such as well?
The women of the church are piercing themselves and showing up on Sunday mornings in cocktail dresses; why does no one speak out? If we have accepted Christ, we have joined His body of believers as well. We have a responsibility to be accountable to one another. We are to put on the ‘new man’, and not walk according to the ways of this world.
It should not be taken that I mean to walk up to someone and tell them to their face that they are dressed immodestly. However, I would say that at times this could be appropriate with certain individuals. The Bible tells us that the older women are to instruct the younger. I believe that there are people God has placed in the Christian life, who do have the authority to confront us on issues such as these. Why would the Bible tell older women to instruct the younger women if we do not need instruction? If we really don’t know what to do without guidelines to follow?
And I ask, why is not more of this happening in today’s Christian culture?
A few years ago, the spring formal was held for our homeschool group, though, one of the most grounded young men of the group did not attend due to the immodesty of the young women. A Christian function, which’s purpose was to provide a healthy environment for young men and women of the faith to assemble and have decent, clean fun, had turned into something that a young man of deep moral conviction could not even attend without feeling offended!
A friend of mine was troubled by this, so she tried to gather the girls of the group together in order to sign a petition to take before the board of directors, that would suggest dress codes for our events. She didn’t gain any ground however, because the majority of the girls were divided on the subject, saying that it was the father’s job to decide what was acceptable for his daughters to wear.
So, if the fathers are condoning dress that offends Christian men, where does that leave us?
When we consider Christian organizations, and groups of women who have studied books on modesty, and read the modesty survey, even, but still seem to ignore all the warnings and put self before anything else, is it not the part of our leaders to take action? I just believe that there is too little importance put on the matter in our private circles. There IS a definite line to be drawn when it comes to modesty, as the survey points out. But in our churches, why does no one stand before the congregation and set these things before us? Why is church discipline effective in everything but this issue? And why does no one seem bothered that we appear so very much like the world? Are our ego’s really that important?
Whew, I’m probably asking for it! I’m afraid that as a woman posting this, I’m overstepping my boundaries. I firmly believe in trusting in men’s leadership, and that when a woman gets up and starts pointing fingers, it is very unbecoming of her. I just feel like we are a big puzzle that is falling apart because all of the pieces don’t want to work together.
Can we blame just one party? No, we’re all at fault. Fathers, mothers, sons and daughters all have a role to play. To simply boil it down, the role is to seek God’s will above our own; then, who He made us to be can’t help but shine through in our lives.
If I could learn to love Him more I know I’d certainly be a better daughter, sister and ultimately, woman.
Please let me know if I’ve been off-base with anything I’ve said. Honestly, I’m confused myself and am just looking for answers. This wonderful Modesty survey is evident that the Christian community IS responding to this issue, and I know that many girls have been touched by this. Thank you again and again!
September 30th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
this is really great. . . until i read Do Hard Things, i didn’t even know that this website exists…now i’m reading it and im thinking Thank God! i finally have a male view on modesty…so, this is really amazing…keep it up!
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:15 pm
i just finished ur book. i go to a christian school in kirksville MO. my class of8 (9th and 10th) just finished reading it for health.
November 2nd, 2009 at 6:30 pm
OK, guys. What a huge blessing for all Christan girls. I get’s hard because the Bible never says how long this should be, or this should come to there, so this survey is a great way to get an idea of what “to avoid”. And, come on, we as females don’t know what makes a guy stumble. You can ask other girls till the cows come home, “if this is modest” but you never know for sure if it is. (don’t get me wrong I think it is wonderful to get godly counsel from your mother or church family, but it’s just that we can’t tell.)
And on behalf of Christan girls everywhere,
Thanks for making the race a little easier!
November 7th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
“Jane,
I agree with you. Men need to be held responsible for their actions. There should be no arguments about skirt hems and necklines. Men should be able to control themselves. God gave us a brain! Men should have a little bit more self control and not go crazy when they see an ankle or collor bone.
Graham
Moderator Note: It appears (from information only we are privy to) that this user is a woman, not a man, and that this comment is intentionally deceptive in that regard. If additional clarification is provided we will remove this disclaimer”
I’m a guy and I agree with her/him.
December 13th, 2009 at 1:43 am
I like the Modesty Survey. It has been very helpful, but I do not agree that swimsuits are modest. I do not care if the majority of the guys says that it is, it’s not. That includes a one piece swimsuits because the Bible says that you should cover your thighs. For those who believes that a two piece swimsuit is modest, then what is the difference between a two piece swimsuit and a bra and underwear. I do not wear pants b/c I do not feel comfortable b/c they were orginally made for men. It bothers me that girls are willing to dress modestly for guys when they are suppose to be modest to honor themselves and God. I honestly do not care what guys think about what is modest and what isn’t b/c I’m not doing it for them. I am mainly doing it to honor myself. I am not a piece of meat or a toy to play with. It is hard for me to belive that guys perfer to marry a modest girl b/c everywhere I go I see and hear guy making a sexual comment or joke. I have exprience it myself and I ALWAYS dress modestly. When a guy makes a sexual comment or joke, I am not afraid to tell him to stop and I distance myself from him if he does not say that he is sorry or does not back off. I do not like it that guys would rather have sex with immodest girls, like Britney Spear, but would rather marry a modest girl or vigin. I do not want a guy like that to court me.
January 30th, 2010 at 1:18 am
Caitlin C.,
I totally agree that more should be done to prevent immodesty in churches. Romans 12:2 tells us that we are not to conform to the pattern of this world, but so often I see Christian girls who are dressing just as immodestly as the non-Christian girls. I think there are two reasons that most church leaders are not pressing the issue:
1) Modesty is a sensitive topic and they are afraid of offending anyone or turning people away.
When you think about it, this really doesn’t make sense. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. We cannot, and are not supposed to, blend in with the darkness around us; we are supposed be different. We were put here to glorify God, to be a light and to bring people to Jesus. When we unashamedly take a stand for what is right, some people may feel threatened (which means that the Holy Spirit is convicting them of sin), but many will be drawn to the light. They won’t be drawn to us if we blend in with the darkness. If all of the churches in America imitated Christ more closely, I’ll bet nationwide church attendance would skyrocket!
2) Many of our Christian elders don’t expect us to be different than our more secular peers.
Most of our elders, Christians included, have low expectations for teens. They seem to be satisfied that we are in church instead of out on the streets. Many don’t realize the impact we can have on our generation - and the whole WORLD - if we just clean up our act and choose to follow Christ in every area of our lives.
I know it’s hard. The world is constantly bombarding us with its own opinions of how we should dress and act. It would be so much easier to dress modestly if we had more Christian adults and church leaders holding us accountable. My parents and younger sisters (I am the oldest) help to hold me accountable in this area, so I consider myself very blessed in that regard. Another thing that really helps me is this awesome verse I found. I typed it up and hung it next to my dresser on my wall:
“Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.”
-Galations 1:10
Don’t conform to the world. Stand firm and be a light. Always remember that you are not alone. This incredible survey proves that!
February 9th, 2010 at 8:13 pm
I really liked all your posts on modesty and chivalry. I then clicked on a link under your sidebar saying Great blogs. This blog was called Biblical WOmanhood Online. When it linked me to the site I was confused and disappointed as the girl they chose to be the main thing on their site was dressed every IMMODESTLY. She had a low cute sleeveless shirt on. I do not feel this is alright to protray this image and then try to teach others how to be a biblical woman!!