rebelling against low expectations

Where should guys and girls draw the line on physical contact?


AMANDA WRITES: I’ve heard many different viewpoints about how much physical contact is too much before marriage. I’ve seen some people saying that girls should never hug guys, and some people say we shouldn’t touch them at all. I’ve decided not to kiss a guy till my wedding day, but what about other things? Hugs? Holding hands? Is there a specific place we should stop (other than actually having sex), or is it a matter of personal convictions?

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  • There’s no specific cut off line for physical contact, but in my opinion, you should draw the line at anything that tempts you to go….too far. Standards will vary from person to person, but personally I’m fine with a quick hug.

    Another way to think about it is, anything you do before you get married (holding hands, kissing, whatever) won’t be special to marriage anymore (if that makes sense). So how much do you want to save and have be special for your future spouse?

    Hope this helps! =)

    • And question: was it @amandabeguerie:disqus or @disqus_LzTgmwudVU:disqus (or another Amanda) that submitted this DQ?

    • Your answer is very close to thoughts from book Boy Meets Girs (by Joshua Harris)… btw. It is very worthwhile book related to this topic!

      • Yeah, I’ve read that book! You know it’s Josh’s brother Brett that runs this website, right?

        And btw, I see that this is your first comment – welcome to the Rebelution! =D

          • Hey MJ! Been a long time! I just got back on here, and saw that I had a response from you from a month ago! Sorry about that. I’ve been doing pretty good! Started community college this semester and it’s not as scary as I thought. I’ve been recruiting by my youth pastor to make some new videos, and you remember that movie project I told you about? Well we actually pulled it off!!! We filmed the whole thing in the summer and had it edited before the leader actor went off to college. It was a great success, and all of the people involved had a blast. I’ll try to get it to you, but that may be difficult.

            Anyway, enough about me. How have you been lately?

          • Wow, it’s been eleven days since you answered me…
            I’m happy to hear that you got that finished! If you could get it to me, that’d be awesome, but that would pose some problems.
            So last I heard you didn’t know where you wanted to go for college; have you made more plans?

            Me. Well, school is about to drive me up a wall, but aside from that I’m doing pretty well. πŸ™‚ I’ve been working on school or other necessary stuff (my job, etc.) six or seven hours a day, six days a week… it’s tiring. But it’ll be worth it in the end, I’m probably going to be done with this year’s schoolwork in February so I can get a head start on my senior year.

          • That’s great! I’m hoping to get a job pretty soon. Maybe at the start of next semester.

            I think I’m going to go to the University of Texas in Austin, mainly because the college courses I’m doing now will transfer there. I’m going to study chemical engineering. So I do have a skeleton of a plan for what I’ll need to get done in the next few years.

            What about you? Any plans for after your senior year?

          • And now it’s been eight days… wow, I’m getting to be bad at this idea of answering in a timely fashion!
            I’m planning on nursing right now, and I want to work in medical missions after that. Still deciding on a college, although I definitely want it to be a Christian college. I mean, there’s two “skill sets” I need for medical missions: medical skills and Biblical knowledge. So, attending a secular school wouldn’t be a very wise move for me. Makes everything way more expensive, though. :/

          • Wow. Thanks for asking. Not too many people just ask that point blank.

            I’m going through a change in churches right now. The church I’m leaving I’ve been going to for seven years, and it’s like I’m planted there you know? I’m not resentful that we’re leaving (lets just say our church falls short in a few important departments), but it’s just a matter of habit having seen the same people each month for years, and I’ve been told I have a hard time breaking habits. So I don’t know, I guess you could pray that this transition would be smooth and painless, and that there would be even more opportunities to serve and help at the next church we go to.

            Also, please pray that I can be a better friend to the friends I have. I want to be the best friend I can possibly be, but sometimes I’m not sure if that’s how my friends see my intentions. One other thing is to trust my friends. I’ve always had a very small circle of friends that I’ve allowed into my life. But one especially close friend broke my trust and we have since broken friendship. That’s kind of made me hesitant to trust some of my other friends, even the ones I like hanging out with. So if you would, please pray that I would have opportunities to be a better friend to the friends I have, and that I would be able to build trust between us.

            Sorry for the book, but I felt you should have some backstory. Is there anything I can pray for you about? And it’s okay if you have to send a book too. πŸ™‚

          • Oh, I don’t like changing churches. :/ I’ll be praying for you guys. Do y’all have a church that you want to see about joining, or are you just hoping to find a good one somehow?

            It seems all of us Rebelutionaries have friend problems. I’ll be praying for you here, too!

            Well, recently I have been kind of cut off from my friends, because I left the one activity that we used to do together. So I’ve been lonely. I want to find other ways to be with my friends, but I haven’t been able to get together with them. I guess you could be praying with me that I’ll either find ways to be with my friends, or that I’ll find new ones that I can be with more.

            Nothing else is coming to mind right now… nothing that I’m cool with sharing with the entire Reb, anyways.

            Hey, that gives me a thought. Have you heard of the website Revive? Sam S (the candy corn guy πŸ™‚ put it together, there’s a lot of us Rebbers over there. If you joined there, we could talk through the private-messaging system rather than commenting over here. πŸ™‚

      • Ha! That’s funny! But Josh A’s answer is pretty spot on. Different amounts of contact will affect different people, and everyone should draw the line at anything that tempts you to go too far.

        Which kind of leads into a question I had and would like yours (and any other girls’) input. What type of behavior can be seen by you all as being flirtatious? My dad was talking to me about making sure that I don’t come across to other girls in a flirtatious way. What type of behavior would you see as being friendly, and what type would you consider being interested romantically? Because I am hoping to avoid the latter. Anything would help!

        And by the way, how have you been Christy?

        • Thanks! I’m happy to share my thoughts, but just know that I’m thinking this out as I go.

          I’ll start with touch, since we’re already on that subject. One of the things I think we’ve established is that it affects people differently, but I’ll share how it affects me. Quick hugs or hand shakes or high fives with good guy friends have never bothered me.
          What does get to me is unexpected touching. If a guy gently touches my arm or shoulder to get my attention, it startles me. It’s not that I consider that it had necessarily flirtatious intentions (although it could be used that way), but the unexpectedness doesn’t give my brain time to prepare for the close contact, if that makes sense. So basically, unexpected touching will make me think along romantic, not platonic, lines. But maybe that’s just me.

          Next, I would say that complimenting a girl does not necessarily come off as flirting, unless you’re doing it with that intention. I actually really admire guys who have the bravery to tell a girl who’s a friend that she “looks pretty today” or whatever. As long as you’re not actually giving her extra special attention, it’ll be sweet but not romantic.

          Um…I guess then there are things that people say are signs of flirting, like making a lot of eye contact and going out of their way to have a conversation with you. But I actually do those things just because I’m trying to be nice to people, so it’s confusing for me. If you went out of your way to have a conversation with me, I’d probably be torn between wondering if you like me or if you’re just a friendly guy. I guess what I ultimately decide would depend on if you treated other people the same way.

          Oh, this one’s kind of weird, but be careful about showing off around girls. A guy showing off around me will usually make me think he’s flirting and trying to impress me, unless I know him well enough to know that he’s not. Ugh…this is a tough one, because I’m cool with guys showing what they can do, and I’m interested to get to know them better. But if they look too interested in what I thought of it, then it gets kind of weird.

          Those are my jumbled thoughts! I really hope it made some sense. I’ll comment again if I think of something. And girls, if you think I said something that’s not true for you, please let me know!

          • Thanks a ton! This helps a lot. I don’t know if you have brothers, so you may not quite get how the guy brain works, but I’ll tell you that it helps us a lot to be able to pick the brains of girls. I always tried to not get girls’ attention by touching them. In fact, I really don’t touch girls at all besides the common handshake. For dudes, we can’t ever tell what a girl is thinking, and that freaks us out! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter. I’ll have to remember that it’s all about your intentions and attitude. And as for the showing off part, that’s the most difficult for me. I mean, what dude doesn’t want to see how many pull ups he can do when there are girls around? But I’ll need to remember what you said. You seem like a really easy-going person; not one that would be easily offended or put off, so your advice seems sound. πŸ™‚

            My life’s been good! I actually just got back from a super awesome camping trip with my cousins and family. One of the joys of homeschooling: you can take a vacation the week after Spring Break when there’s no one at the camp ground. Have you done anything fun lately? Or, maybe I should say out of the ordinary?

          • No brothers, but I can assure you it works both ways! I think a few of us asked @trent_blake:disqus a similar question just a few weeks ago. It was nice to figure out what might or might not be considered flirting from a guy’s perspective.
            I’m glad it helps! Maybe I should elaborate on the showing off thing. If there are a bunch of girls around, I’d say it’s less of a big deal to be showing off. But if there’s just one or two girls, then it becomes more personal and flirtatious. Does that make sense?

            Awesome! Yes, that’s the way to do it. πŸ˜‰ Ok, let me think…well, this is kind of weird since this whole discussion is about physical contact between guys and girls, but the greatest thing in my life lately is that I’ve started swing dancing. It’s clean, and incredibly fun!! Besides that…oh, for Easter we’re doing a skit at my church, and I got to write it. That was a lot of fun! πŸ™‚

          • Thanks. It really does help a lot. I bet you’ll do great on your skit! I’ve kind of dabbled in acting just for fun, but have never really been a part of a big production. It’s always been more like a family type of acting. You know, acting in family made movies and such. I’ve actually written two short films, and hopefully we’ll be able to make them both this year. Have I told you about our movies? I’ve told several people, and I don’t want to sound like I’m blowing my own horn. So if you’ve already heard about them, then I won’t reiterate. πŸ™‚

          • Thanks! It’s a casual thing, but I do enjoy acting for fun. πŸ™‚ I think you’ve mentioned that you’re interested in film making, but I don’t think you’ve told me about any you’re actually making, so do tell!

          • Well, my brother films and wants to become a professional filmmaker. However, he stinks at writing stories for the films. He came up with one idea that we filmed with our cousins, and it was basically a monster-in-the-woods type of movie. You know, the cousins all think there’s a monster over the FENCE (the title of the movie), something causes them to need to cross it, and then they come in contact with the monster. It’s some pretty funny stuff. The next movie that we will be making this summer, is one that I wrote. It’s basically a Holmes and Watson type duo trying to figure out the case of the missing flan (a special dessert that’s very popular in my family). So that will be my writing debut. The next movie after that is one that I’m writing with my friend about a group of teenagers tasked with running the church youth group on a Wednesday night. It’s going to be a church comedy/drama, with some pretty crazy characters. We have a rock star kid who wants to lead worship, a crazy cousin from the 1600s who wants to preach (it’s funnier than it sounds too), and then a few normal characters as well. But so far, we’re still writing it, but it will be awesome!

            Wow. That was a lot. Sorry for the book, but as you can tell, I’m super excited about all this. What do you think of it all?

          • Wow, that sounds awesome!! The way you described that last one just made me think of Mom’s Night Out for some reason. πŸ™‚ So are you going to have a way to share your movies or is it going to be like a personal thing for now? And I’m wondering, which part of the film making process appeals to you the most? Is it the writing?

          • You know, it does a little bit, now that I think about it! Maybe we’ll throw in a Mom’s Night Out reference. I really, really want to put our stuff out online, but so far, we don’t have anything out. Hopefully, our church movie will be put out on YouTube. For me, I used to like directing movies the most. But lately, I’ve really started enjoying writing stories. I used to hate writing, especially creative writing, because I always felt like the assignments were stupid and childish. It’s not anyone’s fault, that’s just how I felt about it. But lately, I’ve been coming up with all sorts of ideas for books and movies and such, and it’s been a really enjoyable experience writing this church movie with my friend. So, I think the writing does appeal to me the most. πŸ™‚ Do you act? I’ve asked that question to so many people on here that I can’t remember. Everything is just kinda getting jumbled together. πŸ˜›

            And I only refer to the church movie as “the church movie” because we don’t have a title. If you can think of one, that would be great!

          • Cool πŸ™‚ Well, if you do out anything on YouTube, let me know! I’d love to see it! That’s cool. I can totally understand what you’re saying. I love to write, but writing assignments? Nah. I’m glad you’re enjoying it! I’ve done a few church skits, but that’s it. It’s just that I haven’t had many opportunities. Give me one and I’d be all for it. πŸ™‚ I’m hoping to have more opportunities in college. I think acting is just one of those things that nobody would expect me to want to do. I’m pretty laid-back, and I don’t draw attention to myself. But given the right situation–yeah, I’d love it. So that’s the long answer, lol. πŸ˜‰
            If I think of something, I’ll let you know. πŸ™‚ But it’s unlikely. For some reason, with my writing process I start with a title and go from there. It always works for me. But if somehow I start a writing project before I think of a title, then I’m doomed. XD
            So you’re writing these movies…are you acting in them too?

          • Yes, I am acting in them, mainly because I need to justify myself. πŸ˜› In nearly everything that my family and I have done together (i.e. cousins and friends), I’m always the bad guy. In some of the earlier stuff we did, I was always the bad guy cuz I was always the biggest and most intimidating. In the church movie and the flan movie, I’m going to be a lead or supporting character in each, but I am the good guy this time! πŸ™‚ So yeah, I enjoy acting. I did a skit for my church once and it went alright, but something was wrong with my mic and I had a wardrobe malfunction involving a misbehaving beard! That was embarrassing, but it was still fun. The kids loved it, and that’s all that really matters for that stuff right?

            Thanks for the support. It really means a lot. And I will definitely let you know if/when the videos go on YouTube. I have actually heard many people tell us that they have never seen home movies of our caliber before. Mainly because they look professional. Professional acting is another story (try working with elementary and middle school aged relatives and tell me how well they acted). But all in all, it’s pretty dang fun. We’re just trying to make as many movies as we can before we all grow up and can’t do it anymore.

            I don’t know if I’ve asked you this, but what do you want to do with your life? What do you feel that you just have to do?

          • Lol πŸ™‚ I’m glad you finally get to play the good guy! Yeah, messing up in church is totally okay. We do a weekly puppet skit at our church for the kids, and we frequently mess up and/or have laugh attacks–but it just makes it that much funnier!
            Absolutely! That’s awesome that you’re getting such good feedback! And, lol, I understand. πŸ™‚ When we do skits at our church, the younger kids are always begging to have a part. When we give them one, they almost always end up mumbling everything and staring at their feet. It’s weird but understandable. πŸ™‚ I’m glad it’s fun! And who knows, maybe when you grow up you can do it for real!
            Wow…you ask some deep questions! Well, one thing is that I know that I need to have a book published, someday. I have a rough draft for a novel written, but I’ve been sidestepping the editing process for a couple of years. πŸ˜› it’s pretty intimidating.
            My dream would be to become a recording artist someday. And the reasons behind that are kind of difficult to explain, but I can tell you that it’s not because I want to be famous (well, I mean, everyone wants to be famous, but you see my point.) But the chances of succeeding in that area are so slim that I’ve decided that unless God gives me the opportunity to head in that direction, and makes it clear that He’s at work…well, otherwise, I won’t pursue it. And something like that’s happened before, so I strongly believe that He will guide me–I’m just not sure where. And, as much as I trust Him, that’s still scary.
            Other than that, I don’t really know what I want to do with my life. πŸ™‚ You know, all my passions are in the creative field–specifically, that scary area where you either make it or die of starvation. XD I’ve been trying to look for something practical to study in college that I’d love to do, but I’m coming up dry. So far, journalism and mass media are on my list, but (although they’re related to writing) I just don’t really have a passion for those things, you know?
            Well, that was quite long, so I’ll stop for now. πŸ™‚

          • I don’t mind long comments; it just gives me more to read! That’s cool that you want to publish a book! What’s it about? Fiction? Some kind of Christian living book? I don’t know if I’ll ever write screenplays for real movies, but boy, I sure think about it a lot. But I don’t think I would love it as much as I would love a career in science. I’m reading about chemistry and physics stuff that most teens have probably never heard of. I just can’t understand most of it because I don’t have college level calculus in my brain! πŸ™‚ Well, I hope God shows you where he wants you to go. God seems to have given me a pretty clear vision for my life out to the near future (i.e. graduate, go to college and major in chemical engineering, etc). But after that, I’ve got no idea. I’ve always been a bit of a planner, so i have the near future pretty solid. But nothing after that.

            I understand. You have to do what you’re passionate about. I heard it in a movie somewhere, but what’s the point of making a career out of something if you don’t love doing it?

            Okay, I have to ask this question because I just saw it, but have you seen Big Hero 6?

          • Cool πŸ™‚ It’s fiction (although I have considered writing devotionals or something similar). I would love to write Christian fiction, but I’m awful at it. XD I don’t want to give away the plot, but it’s a fantasy set in medieval times. I guess the moral of the story is basically discovering who you are and being that person, despite what other people may say about you. Which may sound kind of cheesy, but I guess that just ended up being the underlying message. πŸ™‚
            Who knows! Maybe we’ll both realize our dreams. πŸ™‚ random…have you ever heard of NaNoWriMo?
            That’s awesome! See, I totally envy people like you. You have a passion for something that’s basically guaranteed to pay off in the future. I’m very good with academics, I’m just not interested, you know? I mean, I like to learn, but…nothing I’m learning right now do I someday want to incorporate into my career. Does that make sense?
            Haha, that’s pretty much my motto! I have no idea where I heard it either…
            Nooo, I havent! I really want to, though; is it good?

        • (1) I’m sorry that was sooo long! And (2) I accidentally hit publish too soon, so I edited it to add more stuff. You may have to refresh the page to see the whole thing. πŸ™‚

          • Hey, I’m a reader, so I prefer to read as much info as I can get my hands on! I think I got the whole thing. It didn’t sound cut off or anything. Thanks!

          • No problemo Taylor B. I don’t know you, but I’ll ask anyway. How have you been? You can be as general or as specific as you like. πŸ™‚

          • No time to meet new people like the present!

            I’m doing great! I’m training harder than ever before (I am a taekwondo competitor), doing plenty of school, and am keeping busy! Yourself?

            Since your username is Martial Artist, I’m just guessing you also practice martial arts? Which one(s), if you don’t mind telling me?

          • A taekwondo competitor?!? Me too! I’m a black belt in Joon-Rhee Tae-Kwon-Do and have been training for the past five years. I’ve started taking Krav Maga recently, and I’ve also started competing in tae-kwon-do. I’ve also been training for my first real tournament next Saturday! How long have you been competing? How diverse is your skill set?

          • Joon-Rhee Taekwondo? I’ve heard of that school! Where is that?

            I’ve been training for three and a half years. I’ve competed at about fifteen smaller within Texas tournaments, and just finished my first major competition in December at the USA national team qualifier. I was able to earn a spot on the USA Junior Boys Team for this years World Championships in Italy.

            Taekwondo is the only martial art I have practiced, so my skill set is not very diverse. But it’s one of my passions! I love it!

            Good luck in your tournament! Do y’all practice the Choi-han patterns? How do you like Krav Maga? If I had time to take on another martial art right now, that would be the one I would choose, based on what little I know about it.

          • It’s actually a form of tae-kwon-do, not necessarily a school. So you’re based out of Texas? What city? I’m from the Austin area. USA national team qualifier? I don’t quite know what it is, but it sounds like a big deal! Could you tell me about it? I heard about a qualifying tournament taking place in Austin in June. I think it has to do with the Olympic team. Are you a part of that? And what is the name of the circuit that you compete in?

            What’s Choi-han? It sounds familiar, but i don’t really know what it is. And I really enjoy Krav Maga. It is very intense and hard core. Which is what I love in martial arts.

          • Ok, I just did a quick Google search, so I think I understand it a little better now. I must have met a competitor who mentioned it or something, because I know I’ve heard of it before!

            Houston. Austin is an awesome place for taekwondo!

            Pardon me if you already know this, but I’m going to go ahead and say it. Taekwondo is divided into two major parts, WTF (World Taekwondo Federation) and ITF (International Taekwondo Federation). WTF is the Olympic taekwondo federation. ITF is a smaller division, and that’s the one I’m in.

            So, the National Qualifier was hosted in Houston this year. It was a nation-wide tournament to get competitors from all over the US to come to one place to choose who would form the USA team, who are going to Jeselo, Italy, to represent the USA at World Championships (the ITF’s form of the Olympics).

            So the National Qualifier this last December was probably the ITF’s version of the Olympic Qualifier going on this June in Austin.

            Choi-han is the set of patterns ITF practices. Chon-ji, Dan-gun, Hwa-rang- Gae-bek are all examples. Sound familiar? I know different federations practice different patterns, so I was just curious.

            I don’t really compete in a circuit, but ITF is very organized in Texas, so there are plenty of local tournament opportunities. There are about three in Houston every year, one in San Angelo, one in Midlothian, and at least one in Austin that I attend every February at UT.

            I’m very glad you asked how I was doing! Who knew we had this similarity?!

          • Wow! So did you qualify? I couldn’t tell. It just sounded like you participated in the event. I have heard of the ITF and the WTF, so I understand where you’re at now.

            I have actually never been introduced to anything you said about Choi-han. Are they like katas or forms? I’ve been trying to starting competing in the AOK circuit, and perhaps also the NASKA circuit.

            You’re right! Who knew we were this similar. It just seems that you’re farther along the competition trail than I am. What is your specialty: katas or sparring? Are there any videos online of your doing your stuff?

          • I was able to qualify in sparring and Patterns. It really was a blast; I’m sure you’ll enjoy competing!

            Yeah, they’re the same as katas. I’ll be praying for you in regard to your training and competition. Once you try it, you’re hooked! πŸ™‚

            So, are you training for full-contact?

            Well, while I do enjoy katas, I definitely love sparring! How about you?

            No, not really. There are some on here:

   I am not proud of them (I am always really critical of my sparring, and rightfully so, cause I don’t feel like it’s that good), but those are the only videos out there that I know of.

            I don’t know if you can open them, my instructor shared them privately. I try not to put videos or anything on YouTube, because I don’t want other competitors to be able to study me before a big tournament (like nationals). Are there any out there I can see of yours?

          • Cool stuff man. I’ve been training for point sparring (which drives me nuts because I’m used to hitting and being hit much harder). I actually prefer katas and self-defense over point sparring, but I’m pretty good at all of it, not to brag on myself. That’s really smart, not putting stuff online. Why give your opponent an unnecessary edge?

            I don’t have anything online either. Is martial arts your only hobby?

          • Yeah, point sparring is fun, but is much more along the lines of a sport than a fight. Although you can get some good contact in there still. I’ve been knocked out before, so don’t discount the contact, even in point-sparring!

            Let’s see, I love fishing and kayaking. I enjoy reading, discussing things with friends, theology, hiking, camping, and that about sums it up!

            What other hobbies do you have?

          • Reading, school (not a hobby, but a big part of my day), hiking, camping, swimming, canoeing, hanging with friends, and playing music. I play in my kid’s church worship team on the guitar. I love camping and hiking in the woods. I want to go to the mountains one day. What do you read?

          • Looks like similar other hobbies too! πŸ™‚

            Um, a little bit of fiction, a little history, mostly theology. Michael Horton, David Platt, some John Piper, etc.

          • In addition to school reading, I read a lot of sci-fi and fiction, not much theology. I read Dekker and Peretti, as well as some Star Wars. I’ve also read a lot of classics, like Homer, Dante, and others. Lord of the Rings and Narnia are some of my favorite reads though. You mentioned camping and hiking as favorite hobbies. What do you like most about them? I’m the outdoor type too.

          • Outdoors is really where I feel close to God. I feel 10 times closer to God in the woods fishing than I do in a church. Alone in the outdoors (in the woods or on the water) is where I worship best.

            I love the quiet, and honestly, I love that there are no people out there. Sometimes, it’s just awesome to get away from people.

            Whenever I have a problem or am troubled, you’ll find me behind my neighborhood in the woods back there or in a kayak.

            How about you? What is most attractive to you about the outdoors?

          • I like the quiet and tranquility of the woods too. But I’m usually with my family when I’m out there, so quiet is usually non-existent. But I can understand how people could feel closer to God out there. I feel it too sometimes. That’s pretty cool man.

          • Not yet! I really need to. I have read The Circle Series, Showdown, and Skin. Have you read those?

          • The Circle Series takes place in the same alternate Earth as the Lost Books. Showdown actually connects to them in a really weird way. But let me tell you, even though it is totally awesome, Showdown is weird. A lot of stuff happens in the beginning that is creepy and makes no sense, but once you finish it, it turns out to be not so bizarre. So, just a warning to you. πŸ™‚

          • Uhh, thanks! I’m always really embarrassed cause I’m really critical of myself in those videos and pics. I was not very good back then. But thanks anyway!

          • August was fine. I meant last March, when the vids were taken. But I’m glad you think they’re cool! I’m videoing tomorrow’s fights most likely if you want to see them.

          • Wow, you remembered! It was really okay for my first real tournament. I got one of the lowest in my category for katas (I don’t understand why, I performed my kata exactly as I learned it) and I scored third in sparring. The sparring was more fun than I thought it would be. And my kata, I just don’t understand what happened there. Would you have any advice for performing katas in tournaments?

          • Oh, judges are fickle things! That’s happened at least three or four times to me to with katas, so don’t let it discourage you. I probably can’t give you any advice you don’t already know, but learn those katas until you can do them in your sleep. Learn them forward backward, upside down, inside out, and so on. That way, when the pressure’s on, you do it exactly as you’ve trained.

            That said, the fact that the judges didn’t vote for you doesn’t mean you made any mistakes. I have found the judges at martial arts competitions to be incredibly biased at times. One of my most recent competitions in February I had the same thing happen. I did my pattern, and it felt like I did it perfect. I lost, and I had multiple people (high ranking black belts) tell me I’d been robbed. So, it happens. Just come back just as prepared next time!

            Congrats on the sparring! Nice job. Sparring is awesome!

          • Thanks for the encouragement. It really helps. Yeah, I can see how the judges would be more fickle with the katas. I suppose judging for the sparring is a bit more straightforward than for katas. Thanks again. πŸ™‚

  • This is an awkward topic for me, since I’m up for hugs and high fives and sitting next to my close guy friends, and a few of my other friends have been raised thinking it’s not okay in any way at all to be talking to a guy unless you’re in a group conversation.

    I’m not really sure where my guy friends draw the line, so I usually let them make the first move in going for a hug or just waving goodbye. But yeah, like @josh_whatshislastname:disqus said, what do you want to want to save for marriage? If you and the other person both feel comfortable holding hands, hugging, etc., it’s alright to do so, as long as your thoughts stay pure.

    • Wow, no talking to guy at unless you’re in a group? That IS strict. How would you know who you wanted to marry or whatever if you can’t even get to know them?

      Another thing that rubs me wrong about that is that it paints all guys with the same brush – “don’t talk to boys they might try to flirt with you” or whatever. But not all guys are like that!! Some guys just want to be friends, ya know? =)

      • I’ve heard the same thing before. Any one-on-one conversation is no longer “accountable” and thus off limits. ‘Cause I’ll be able to discern who I want to marry while standing in a group of six teens talking. You know, people are so open and up-front about their struggles, trial, and temptations in a group setting! (sarcasm; I think it’s my spiritual gift.)

        I know, right? I’ve read books and heard speakers say things like the comments above, and I just think, “not all of us are like that! Chill!”

        • Yeah, I want to know something about a girl’s depth before I begin a more serious relationship with her, and I don’t think you can learn all those things from group conversations. I’ve never understood how you’re supposed to have deep, serious conversations with a young lady if you have to be in a group i order to talk together. There are certain things I won’t say about my life in front of a group, and I’m sure there are things other people won’t say in front of a group either.

        • Okay, so y’all have brought up some interesting views (none that I necessarily disagree with) on one-on-one guy/girl conversations. However, where do you draw the line with how many guy/girl friends you’re willing to “talk about life” with? ‘Cause friends will come and go, and I know I wouldn’t want to talk about my life and have true, deep conversations with just any ole’ friend of mine!

          • Ok, I have a very small circle of very close friends that I can really talk heart-to-heart with. That circle only includes one girl, because I honestly relate better to guys usually. That group though is not a gender divided group. They’re people I’ve come to respect and deeply trust, and neither of those things are dependent on whether or not they’re a guy or a girl.

            I’ve only had one close friendship with a girl in my life, so I’m probably not the best guy to answer you on the subject. Point being, any friend who’s earned my respect and trust is someone I feel I can confide some of my deeper thoughts with. I tend to do that a lot more easily with other guys, but that’s not to say I will not share those conversations with a girl too.

            The idea is to hopefully choose friends that will be trustworthy over a long time! Some friends do come and go, but usually there will be a small nucleus of friends that will stay true to each other!

            Does that help at all?

          • That’s a good point. Personally, I’ve only had heart-to-hearts with a handful of people, usually girl friends of mine at sleepovers. (What is it about those sleepovers, that makes it so easy to open up?) πŸ™‚

          • πŸ™‚ They’re tons of fun!! Although, there never is a ton of sleep involved. The last one I hosted involved literally ripping a door in my house off it’s hinges, while my dad went to go pick up pizza for us…he wasn’t too thrilled when he got home.

          • Yeah (*embarrassed smile*)… I had three friends over and we were talking upstairs, while my sister and her best friend though it would be funny to put a chair in front of the door to the stairs. So my friend shoved the door trying to move the chair, and the hinges ripped right out of the wood :/

          • Okaaaaaaaaaayyy…. should I consider myself lucky, then? πŸ˜‰
            Haha, that reminds me of a time (a long time ago!) when a friend and I thought it would be fun to make “Charlotte’s Web” out of my closet curtains, by tying all the little strings it was made out of to my bunk bed. I’ll spare you the end of the tragic tale (hint, when my mom found out…).

          • Oh, riiiiiight, because you’re such a little angel… πŸ™‚ Your poor mom, I don’t know how she’s survived living under the same roof with you for so long.

          • Wait, you haven’t seen my halo?

            I agree, my mom deserves some sort of award for putting up with me this long. Toss in there three other rascally siblings, and it’s a shocker she hasn’t died of a heart attack yet.

            Like the time TC and I were wrestling, and rolled down an entire flight of stairs, only to roll down and land right in front of my dad as he turned the corner. Not particularly pleased…

            Or the time TC nicked my head with a tomahawk, and mom wanted to know why my head was now bleeding when we went downstairs. For some reason, she didn’t buy my explanation of “nothing”. Not particularly pleased…

            Oh, man, life is awesome!

          • Ok, that’s just plain mean. Really, you’re leaving me in suspense forever? Good stuff, bad stuff? Nice stuff, mean stuff? Defyingdepravity, you’re just cruel!

          • This conversation would be so weird if I didn’t know that y’all know each other in real life lol.

            @defyingdepravity if I’ve met Taylor b4 does that make you a friend of a friend of a friend?? =P

          • Yeah, defyingdepravity and I are good friends because of shared similarities: love for God, similar beliefs, and the same twisted sense of humor. You just saw an example of the latter.

            Maybe a few other similarities out there too, but I named the important ones!

          • Hee-hee, I know I’m cruel, it’s in my genes. πŸ™‚ And honestly, I threw that out there just to get the reaction, I’ll remember what it was later. I remember it was all good stuff, but it’ll come to me. Probably in the middle of the morning service tomorrow. JK

        • “sit on a porch swing and talk about life without anyone with you”… Aha, finally, someone else who talks to themselves! πŸ™‚

          I know what you meant, just couldn’t resist putting that out there!

      • I think you should be in group settings, or at least have someone around, for the most part. Not to say that you can’t talk one-on-one at all.

          • Another thing I wanted to reply to was when you said, “How would you know who you wanted to marry or whatever if you can’t even get to know them?” Getting to know a person wouldn’t or shouldn’t be the deciding factor. God should be the one to tell you who He wants you to marry.

          • Could you elaborate on that a little? What do you mean “God should be the one to tell you”?

            In my mind, getting to know other people doesn’t mean God can’t tell me. It just means I’m being friendly at this point and leaving the timing in God’s hands. When the time is right, God will show me. But like other things, while I do trust God to reveal it to me, my job is not to sit back in a chair and let it happen. Does any of that make sense?

          • Yet… “The heart is deceitful above all things” and it’s easy to trick yourself into thinking God’s telling you that you should marry so-and-so (who also happens to be your latest crush) and then you think that of course this person is God’s choice for you!
            And @disqus_oMHOgFTIn3:disqus stole the rest of what I was going to say!

          • What do you mean? God’s not going to have a sign over some guy’s head saying “marry me”!

            What if the perfect guy showed up at your church one day. He was everything you ever wanted in a guy, and he was godly, too. But because there wasn’t a divine sign from the sky, you refused him when he asked you to go on a date/court/whatever and he married someone else. In my opinion, that wouldn’t be the Biblical way to go about finding a spouse.

          • Ha, that’s what I was thinking when I asked her to elaborate a little. I actually had the little mental image of a red neon sign aobve his/her head that said “I’m the one”!

            Well, that would make things easier!

          • And a boquet of roses, don’t forget those! And a white stallion and a sunset behind him. πŸ™‚

          • First of all, If someone was interested in me they’d have to go talk to my father first then I would hang out with him and get to know him. We’d rarely be alone, but rather have people around, just to keep us accountable.

          • Agreed on everything, that’s what I’ll be doing when the time comes. It just seemed like you meant something different. =)

          • Ok, great!! It felt like we were debating, but I enjoyed the conversation!! Nice talking to you. See ya around! πŸ™‚

          • I read some of your explanations below, sorry for my harsh sounding rant below. =) I just can’t stand the “let go and let God” and all that garbage, it’s totally unbiblical.

        • Josh A and Gabrielle, you both are on the right track with friendships and “finding the one”. However, I want to add a word of advice, meeting your future spouse and your courtship is not going to be how you planned it at all. It is absolutely right that you both should have guidelines and standards, but be prepared see God change some of them. Also, when there is a person you like or admire and you want to be friends with them, concentrate on friendship only. Especially at this stage in your lives.

          • I totally agree: I’m way too young to think about getting married yet, so friends it is (for know). =)

          • Definitely, it won’t be how you planned it at all, or at least it should be. God should be the one directing and guiding. What actually do you mean when you say, “be prepared see God change some of them?” I personally get my standards from God. They are what He lays on my heart to do. My convictions, such as having a chaperone around (sometime of the time) while courting, for accountability purposes. I agree with you about concentrating on the friendship, until God is saying that you should pursue marriage. God’s plan and His timing is the best.

      • You can learn a lot from group settings! Not deeply personal things, but you get a good idea of a person’s personality, likes and dislikes, life in general.
        I personally don’t hang out with guys outside of groups, but that’s not to say that I won’t have a mini-conversation with a guy friend if everyone else suddenly disappears.
        Mostly it’s for the girls’ protection – we tend to read more into friendships than most guys realize πŸ™‚ But also, from my short time in the “real world” at work, I’ve come to greatly appreciate the boundaries I set up, because there are some real flirts out there. Are all guys like that? NOOOO! But better safe than sorry… IMO.

    • I totally know what you mean! The guys in my youth group are the ones who usually make all the jokes, so I hang out with them before we break up into our groups. I would never hug any of them, that would be a little weird. I occasionally give them high fives.

          • Ok…and sorry I have no idea what you’re talking about hahaha. =) (I know about bball and I’ve heard of March madness but that’s it…)

          • March Madness is a big basketball tournament! Gonzaga is one of my favorite teams! They’re going really far this year!

          • OK cool! By any chance are the Atlanta Hawks in it? I hear they’re the one sports team from Atlanta actually doing well this year/season/whatever lol.

            And hey do you play basketball? Or just watch it?

          • I’m one of the people who just watch the game. I know the sport really well though. My brothers play the basketball, does that count? I don’t think that the Atlanta Hawks are in it this year. But I don’t know for sure.

          • Haha ok…yeah I’m kind of that way with soccer, I used to play it, I’ve watched it some, and I really enjoy playing Fifa 14, so I know a lot of the players and the rules and stuff.

            Yeah, I have a friend that plays bball and she’s constantly getting injured and I’ll be like “isn’t basketball a no contact sport?” and she’ll give me a if only you knew, Josh look lol.

            So do you play any othe sports?

          • Well, I do ballet, if you count that as a sport. I play basketball with my family,and my dad accidentally elbowed me in the nose.

          • Haha since you’re a girl, that counts. If you were a guy… =P

            Yeah, I don’t play organized sports anymore, just stuff with friends.

            Hey, it’s been good talking to you! Unfortunately I have to study now. πŸ™ ttyl!

          • A quiz I have on Monday…I can’t remember who’ve I’ve told about what I’m doing, but I’m doing this thing called dual enrollment, where I’m still in high school but I’m taking classes at a college that count for both college and double highschool credit (#complicated). =) What grade are you in?

          • Cool. I am 13, and am in the 7th grade. I go to a public school most kids would think that it is a private school, but it’s not! My school is getting a new high school. For seniors and juniors, you can take high school classes at the Western Nevada Collage, and it counts for collage credits. So, you would only have to go to collage for 2 years! They also pay for the classes. πŸ™‚

          • Cool! I should be a sophomore but I’m a year ahead so I’m a junior #nerd. =P Yeah that sounds a lot like dual enrollment bc all of my classes are paid for, but I had to pay for books/student fees.

  • I’m saving my first kiss for marriage as well!
    I’ve heard plenty of different things when it comes to physical contact, and I’ve came to the conclusion that you should set your own boundaries according to what your convicted about and what pushes you too close to the line.
    For example: some people wait til they’re engaged or married until they hold hands. I’m not convicted of that really, so I probably will hold hands before then.
    The Bible doesnt say “Don’t hug until marriage. Don’t hold hands until marriage. Don’t do this, don’t do that.” It does say (in several verses) that you are to stay pure. (An example of this is 1 Timothy 4:12. πŸ™‚ ) So the Bible doesnt give a “Physical Don’t List” (except in the area of sex. It does talk quite a bit about that.) but it does tell us to remain pure. So if something physical tempts you to compromise your purity, don’t do it. Stay away.

  • The Bible doesn’t place any lines on us for physical contact, unless we cross that line. So, do what you have to do to avoid temptation to cross the line. I know some people take it to the extreme and say that “no-touch” courtship is the only way to be Biblical, and others say that you can get as close to the line as you want as long as you don’t cross it.

    This is where the Holy Spirit comes into play in our lives. Unlike what many think, rules cannot keep you from sin by themselves. A lot of teens I know have thought that the mere placement of rules (no kissing, no being alone together) would protect them, but that’s what the Holy Spirit is for. Listen to His leading in your own life. When you’re tempted, set a boundary there, but at the end of the day, that’s a conviction not set in scripture. I believe it all boils down to personal conviction and what the Holy Spirit reveals to each of us personally. Make sense?

    • I’ve never gotten the “no-touch” courtship idea. It just doesn’t seem healthy.
      Yep, makes sense! πŸ™‚

      • Agreed. While I am someone who has implemented the idea in my own life that I have no intention of kissing before marriage, “no-touch” seems to be taking it a bit too far! I mean, seriously, I can shake hands with any girl in the church except the one I’m engaged too? In what universe does that make sense?

        I get some of the motivation behind the rule, but seriously, do people really believe that Christian teens are so lacking in self-control that we can’t high-five or shake hands?

  • Yeah…personally, I think that kissing would lead to too much
    temptation, so I’m probably going to save it until I get married. =) But that’s just me…

  • Well @josh_whatshislastname:disqus pretty much covered it πŸ™‚ Here’s
    my two cents: the Bible doesn’t lay down a definite “line” besides
    the ultimate line–immorality. But Paul said in 2 Timothy 2:22, “Flee also
    youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that
    call on the Lord out of pure heart.” Flee them. Give no place to them.
    Whatever line you draw, make sure it is one that guards your heart and the
    heart of the other person. Everyone is tempted differently. For me, fleeing lust
    means no physical contact, other than handshakes and high fives, and not being
    alone with a member of the opposite gender. I am a very physical person–my
    parents had to teach me to back off on the touch when I was a little kid. And
    to be honest, touch “turns me on”, so to speak. Set up whatever
    safeguards you need to keep it pure and don’t compromise. ~AnnaGrace

  • Because the Bible does not say, “Thou shalt not kiss before your wedding day” or “Thou shalt not hold hands until you are engaged,” these things fall within our Christian liberty. However, “All things are lawful, but not everything is helpful. All things are lawful, but not everything builds up.” (1 Cor. 10:23) Rather than thinking about how close to the line we can get without sinning, what the question really should be is, “How does this (whatever it is) bring glory to God?” If that thing is a blatant sin, it cannot give glory to God. If it causes another person to stumble, it does not give glory to God. However, if you can do something for God, His way, in a manner that points to His greatness and reflects His goodness,than it should be ok to do.* That will look different to different people, but with whatever you do, you should make sure that you are doing it with the right motivation. “Whether you eat or drink, do all to the glory of God.” (1 Cor. 10:31)

    *(Josh Harris has a good definition of living to the glory of God in his book, Boy Meets Girl.)

  • I think it’s basically a matter of personal convictions, since (like other people have said) the Bible doesn’t have set rules for this. I don’t necessarily set my own boundaries based on what is going to cause me and others to sin or what isn’t, because that’s different for everyone. I draw the line at doing something that I would want to be purely between me and my future husband, (like @josh_whatshislastname:disqus and @steelersfan08:disqus mentioned) which for me includes, beside the obvious, kissing and too much physical contact. Holding hands or quick hugs are a little less intimate in my opinion, that’s just me, but I don’t want to take away from anything that should be special in marriage (and that God created just for marriage).
    Don’t know if that helps, but good question Amanda! πŸ™‚

  • I’m not a teenager anymore (though I did follow the Rebelution and read all of Josh Harris’s books when I was), but I was once at a point in my life where I was asking these same questions. I think the answer will be a little different for everyone, because everyone is different. My husband and I saved our first kiss for our wedding day and were virgins on our wedding night. We didn’t even hold hands until we had been seeing each other intentionally for six months, which probably seems extreme to some people but it worked well for us. We wanted to make a clear-headed decision about marriage, and we didn’t want to commit more with our bodies than we had committed with our lives. Both of us wanted to save as much of our physical contact until after marriage as possible, so that it would be special – something we had only ever enjoyed with each other. It was difficult to maintain those standards (since nobody ever tells you that physical contact will feel like the RIGHT thing to do when you grow to love someone deeply), but we would’t change what we did for the world. It was so worth it, and waiting before marriage has prepared us to wait for things after marriage (I’m pregnant with my second child after losing my first prematurely). Our current relationship is so much stronger because we exercised self-control when we hadn’t yet entered into the marriage covenant.

  • I’ve only done a hug shoulder twice with a girl. I usually don’t touch them but if they feel sad I give them a slight pat on the shoulder. that usually makes them laugh.

      • But… it would really mean a lot. That he’s being nice but not making me uncomfortable (basically anything more would…) IMO πŸ™‚

        • Well that’s good. Maybe when I start dating again I’ll try it. πŸ˜‰ Haha yeah I’m really good friends with a super insecure girl and she feels uncomfortable when guys pop her three foot bubble. But once she gets to know you she’s pretty awesome. And most importantly she has a passion for God…our greatest camaraderie. πŸ™‚ IMO? Forgive me I’m not very tech-savvy.

          • IMO is “In My Opinion”. I didn’t know it myself until I saw it a couple of days before I said it πŸ™‚
            Passion for God is great to see in a friend! I really look forward to meeting people like that when I move πŸ™‚ I kinda already have my “group of friends” where I live, so it’s harder to meet new friends, so that’s one good part of me moving πŸ™‚

          • Oh!!! Yes, I agree! Rather encouraging. Yeah, there’s good and bad people in most towns. πŸ˜‰ Haha I really hope we have an opportunity to meet when you move!

          • It would be great if we ended up meeting! Now we’re waiting for my dad’s (really slow) employers to decide if they need him in the KS/MO area, or if we can move to the Iowa area, which would be closer to a lot of family. I kinda hope that we have to move to KS/MO, because you’re over there, Ethan H is over near there, and somebody else who I can’t remember at the moment is also nearby.

          • Yeah it would be! Haha gott love the (really slow) employers these days! They don’t make em’ like they used to!! πŸ˜‰ Haha Yeah Ethan Hutchison and I are within 2 hrs of each if memory serves me. πŸ™‚ Which is pretty cool.

    • As a girl, I can say that that would definitely make me laugh. Hahaha! If I was really sad, and I was telling this guy friend how I was feeling, and all of a sudden, with a very sympathizing face, he lightly did one pat on my shoulder. Yes, that would strike me as funny and probably cheer me up. So good job, Carson!

      • lol it also makes me feel happy to make someone happy! Especially a girl… *looks off into the distance*

    • Hey! That is great πŸ™‚ If it was me, I would appreciate the sentiment and that you didn’t do anything more. It would really cheer me up!
      Don’t listen to the people who say you’re over-cautious!

  • I’d say it depends on personal conviction. Different people have different ideas of what’s appropriate.

  • In my opinion, you really can’t make a general rule. What may seem harmless to you, could be considered sinful to another person, and you need to respect that. I certainly don’t suggest handing out hugs to people you have just met. That’d be slightly awkward and weird. However, I don’t agree with all these girls that stay away from guys or refuse to have conversations with them outside of a group setting. They are our brothers in Christ, ladies! Some of them are great guys!

    Now, I can say this because not too many years ago, I was terrified. I mean, terrified of talking to boys. Wouldn’t make eye contact, wouldn’t go near them, had a mini heart attack if one of them started talking to me. However, that all changed when I met this one guy who became my best friend. Yes, I have a guy best friend, and he’s awesome. Now, I am friends with multiple people of both genders. Guys won’t automatically assume that you have a crush on them if you start talking to them, girls. I’ve been able to have deep conversations about faith and theology with several guys, and it’s blessed me more than I can say.

    But back to physical contact, I’d say it would depend on the guy. I mean, I give high-fives to guys all the time. Just always show respect. For me, it’s pretty easy to tell if a guy is more standoffish. Treat him like you would want to be treated. Like a friend and like someone you like and respect.

    • They’re our brothers in Christ, but they’re not our biological brothers… we have to remember that.
      Different people will choose to have different levels of friendships with guys; for me it’s different than it will be for you, and that’s okay. I know what you mean about being terrified of guys; that was me until a couple of years ago.
      Yeah, high-fives are one of the best inventions ever! A great way to greet someone or to say “good job” without it being awkward/too much.

      • I think somewhere in the NT it says that a brother in Christ is more strongly connected to you than a biological brother.

        • Hmm, I don’t remember that.
          There is a lot of room for misunderstanding what someone means, when you’re not related. That’s really the problem here… if we could all be great friends and not worry about it getting romantic, it would be awesome, but we’re not wired that way, ya know?
          Everyone’s going to have their own opinion on this subject, it seems…

    • When it comes to friends I think you should have a balance of both genders. Guy friends are pretty awesome. I too, have had deep conversations with a guy friend of mine. Some girls are just so emotional that if they made the standard, for themselves, to not talk to guys unless in a group setting, I would understand. For that person, I’d recommend getting stable emotionally.

    • I’ve always found it a little strange that so many people (I think girls more so than guys?) believe a friendship between a guy and a girl is absolutely impossible. I have, and have had, quite a lot of great friendships with girls and it’s never been awkward or weird or anything.
      Glad to see I’m not the only one here who thinks it’s possible (;

      As to physical contact, I usually just adapt to whatever the other person expects in this. I’m not a huge fan of physical contact myself, but when someone wants to hug me that’s fine. Looking at Romans 14 -and at practically every other post in this thread- I think respecting other people’s boundaries is the way to go.

  • I honestly think things like hugging are no big deal. I would wait awhile before a kiss on the lips, but not till marriage. And I think that’s as far as you should go.

      • Gabrielle, I want my kiss to be when I am engaged. I don’t like the idea of kissing my future husband for the first time in front of a lot of people. I would prefer my future husband to propose to me in private as well. But that’s just me. πŸ™‚

        • Hmm.. I can see that. I understand. Even though I want to wait till my wedding day I would be a little nervous about missing or something!! πŸ™‚

        • I wanted to share something with you. It’s not to sway you to wait to kiss until your wedding day versus engagement, I just wanted to share. My Dad told a story that a long time ago he was engaged to be married to someone. They were both Christians and wanted God’s will. My dad had about 2 dreams indicating that they were not to get married, and the person who was to be his best man (who was not a Christian) also had a dream that they didn’t get married. In short, they were both wanting God’s will, and as a result they were able to hear the Lord and accepted it. The point I was trying to make was, if you become engaged to someone without hearing from the Lord or without His direction, (due to where you are spiritually), would you really want to give away a kiss to someone that you didn’t marry? Sadly, some people who are Christians get engaged and marry people without hearing from the Lord, but I pray that you will be attuned to the Spirit and hear what God’s saying concerning that person who you may be interested in.

        • That’s exactly how I feel! I mean I’d want at least a little bit of practice, you know? Like first kiss at engagement. That way you know what you have to work on. That probably sounds really weird, lol

  • I think you should be mindful of your own boundaries, and that one thing can lead to other things.

    I’ve also heard from a lot of people that they want to save their first kiss for their wedding day. I never thought about that, but then someone pointed out to me that that means you’ll be going from never having kissed to the ‘wedding night’ in one day, which might be way too fast for some people’s comfort level. But for other people that might be exactly what they want to do.

    • Your friend is assuming that the wedding night must involve EVERYTHING all at once. There’s no reason a couple who has never kissed can’t warm up to intimacy at their own pace. Just a thought!

          • Hey Brett, on the latest DQ, “Why does God let bad things happen to good people?”, I am having trouble getting the link to work. When I click on the article, it brings me to this:

            Also, in the yellow box, I pointed out that it said “2011” in the URL. I believe that would be the date, but since this is 2015, it may have been a mistake. So, is it possible you or someone else fixed the URL, but not the rest of the links to the article (Home Page, Archives, Blog, Discussion – I tried pretty much everything)

            Any thoughts?

          • You have 13 upvotes… WOW!
            Hmmm, I guess she disappeared and I’m trying to fill her shoes… Am I succeeding?

      • Yeah good point. That is hard to say though…seems like it would be so hard to wait for the rest of it…haha…

      • Brett… Am I allowed to ask how you and Ana dealt with this question (the DQ question)? I totally understand if you’d rather not get involved in a DQ that much or something, I just thought it’d be cool to hear from someone who’s grown up with the message of purity, and has been through the whole dating-marriage phase where it can be really difficult.

    • I also thought that it was moving a little fast… I also thought it would be a little awkward having your first kiss with someone in front of a lot of other people. Some people may not have problems kissing their special someone for the first time in front a hundred or so people. However, I would want my kiss to be a little private.

      • I feel the same way! I understand that a first kiss is not to be taken lightly, and I think that I just wouldn’t be able to enjoy mine if it were in front of all my wedding guests (including my entire extended family!). I really respect all the people who have decided to save their first kiss for their wedding, but personally I feel differently. I do want it to be pretty close to the wedding, though.

    • For me it is very important to wait until I’m married to kiss for the first time. Because what if for some reason I don’t end up marring the person I kiss… them how will my future spouse feel? And the bible cleary says to refrain from sexual imorality before marrige.

      As far as it being awkward kissing for the first time in front of lots of people… I TOTALLY get you there!!!! πŸ™‚ What I want to do at my wedding is to have a private kiss like Ben and Jessa Dillard!

    • I would debate that… my parents, my oldest sister, and my oldest brother all did that, and they wouldn’t change anything if they had a chance πŸ™‚

    • I have wondered that same thing. I don’t see how I would feel comfortable with things escalating that quickly. Thanks got sharing!

  • Part of it comes down to personal convictions I keep some rules in mind tho. Don’t be puritanical about it. and always approach with the right intentions.

  • Amanda, love your resolve to save your first kiss for your wedding day. I have decided that too! Someone said to me it is more romantic that way…and I heard another say saving your first kiss is something special only you can give to your husband. As far as the cut off for physical contact I think it depends on individual convictions…peoples beliefs will vary greatly on the subject. The ultimate goal is purity so I would stop at whatever feels like it is taking away from that. In other words if something proves to be tempting, avoid it! Long hugs are probably not a good idea, in my opinion. Holding hands would be nice, though. Just some ideas that came to me…

    • Hey Moriah,
      Just wanted to ask about what you mean by “…The ultimate goal is purity…”?
      my understanding on the subject of “purity” is that it is not what WE DO that purifies our heart, it is what JESUS has DONE. like from Psalm 51:10 β€œCreate in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.” God is the one who makes our hearts pure (internal purity of soul) instead of an external purity of behavior. Do you think it may be the ultimate goal is Restored relationship with our Father through Jesus And purity is a result? πŸ™‚

      • I agree that the ultimate goal in LIFE is a restored relationship with Jesus Christ. But, I was talking about the ultimate goal in a guy/girl RELATIONSHIP is purity. (meaning saving our bodies for our future spouse…being a virgin on our wedding night). My point is not to do anything that would tempt us to fall in that area…or tarnish our purity. There have to be guardrails in place ahead of time and we have to know where we stand or else we will be much more likely to fall when trying to resist in the moments of temptation.

  • Like others, I think I will point to @josh_whatshislastname:disqus’s comment as pretty much what I would say. Don’t draw a line and see how close you can get to it, Be ready to flee from anything that ‘gets your motor going’ (that’s how Mum puts it). It may be different for different people, and Mum assures me that it’s also different at different times. Sometimes you might be fine with an A-frame hug (may I just say that’s ALWAYS how I’d hug my guy friends), other times just holding hands might be too much for you. Be honest with each other, and make sure you know that if someone backs out, it’s cause they need some space, and it’s not just being offensive!

    In terms of physical contact in friendships, I think that varies with the people too. Honestly, I would say ‘less is more’ (or better), but I can’t draw a line. For example, with one of my guy friends, we often give each other a quick A-frame hug upon meeting or saying goodbye – but I try to let him initiate that, out of respect that at times he just might not be able to. With another guy friend, we don’t hug. In fact, we don’t touch at all really. And I’m OK with that – it’s just where our friendship’s at. If he were to initiate a hug, I’d probably be fine with that. But for now, we just don’t. With yet another guy friend (who is actually my younger brother’s age, so he’s almost like a younger bro to me too), I wouldn’t hug him, but I do punch him in the arm every now and again (that sounds so mean, lol :P) and stuff like that. So it changes with both you and the guy. That said, though, I think there is stuff that is no-go. A friend of mine regularly engages in tickle and wrestle fights with the guys at her school, etc. Honestly, I think that’s too far.

      • Basically it’s a hug where only you arms and shoulders touch, not your chest or torso. If you hug guys at all, you’ve probably done it, just without a name to it. It has the least contact of any hug, besides the side-hug.

          • Actually, I find it’s pretty natural, as long as both you and the guy respect each other and are sensible about physical touch. (For any guy friend I’d hug, I know we’ve both thought about this kind of stuff, and want to minimise contact, so this comes really easily. On the other hand, if you’re trying to hug a guy who doesn’t care and in fact would like more as much contact as possible, it’s probably going to be awkward.) As I said before, if you’ve hugged any guy outside your family, you’ve probably automatically used this hug. You’re right, though: it does sound kinda technical. πŸ˜›

  • Alright guys, LISTEN UP!! If your intentions for a hug are to get as close as you can to a girl, JUST DON’T!! If your intentions for a hug is you wan’t to hug your friend because your happy to see them, or to cheer them up, that’s fine. Hwy do you want to kiss a girl. You may have automatically said because you love them, but think about it. Is it to show off to your single friends, or to tell all of your on the edge friends with their on the edge girlfriends that you can push the limit too. ” Be no envious of evil men, nor desire to be with them, for their hearts devise violence, and their lips talk of trouble.” Proverbs 24:1-2. I know I won’t kiss a girl (even on the cheek) until I have known them prayed over them and asked God if they are the right on for me, Meaning I would like to date them for at least six months before we become any more physical than a hug.

  • I guess it depends on what you mean by a deep conversation. I know that I’ve shared a lot of serious things in a conversation that was meaningful to me with my best friend, who is a guy. I do see the need for a limit, though, and I think it’s essential in a lot of relationships.

    • I mean like hopes, dreams, struggles, strengths ect. I think its good to share with your guy best friend, but only on a friendship level, not a “getting-to-know-your-possible-spouse” level.

  • Like everyone’s pretty much already said, it’s really a matter of convictions. Certain boundaries for some people may not make sense for others, because we all struggle in different aspects. Personally, I want to save my first kiss for marriage. It definitely won’t be easy, but it will be really cool to have that bond in the long run. There is a woman at my church who does classes about purity, and one things she mentioned was that she remembers those kisses she had with other guys before marriage. I want those memories to be just of me and my husband. πŸ™‚ As for hugging, at this point in my life, I don’t have a lot of guy friends and the one’s I do have, I would only hug on special occasions. I find it awkward to just randomly hug a guy. πŸ™‚

  • Yeah, holding hands gets really… something. Emotional or awkward, depending on if you are attracted to that person.

  • The way I read defyingdepravity’s mention of “deep conversations” wasn’t that they are deeply personal. More along the lines of deeper theology, belief systems, and so on, still in a “friendship way”. Defyingdepravity, please correct me if I’m wrong!

  • Treat boys like your brothers in Christ! Do you hold hands and get mushy with your brother? I don’t. Do you give them occasional hugs (not mushy kinds)? Sure! That is just what I would say about it….

    • I disagree. God never said, “Treat your husband like a brother.”
      And what’s wrong with holding hands? Can someone explain this to me? Because I was about 9 when my oldest brother started courting his girlfriend (now wife), and they held hands. nobody bated an eye, it seems natural to me for a courting couple to be allowed to show SOME affection to one another. There is nothing sexual about holding hands. It seems unhealthy for a couple to not be allowed to show affection to one another. I am not talking kissing, or anything. But it is so sweet when a guy shows compassion and love, with a hug, or something.

      • I think she was talking about people you’re NOT dating/courting. I could be wrong though. πŸ™‚ I totally agree with you, though. It’s a natural part of a healthy relationship to show some physical affection (just not too much).

        • Oh, she could be. πŸ™‚
          Exactly. I just think because non-Christians have gone too far in their relationships that as Christians, we think that they have to act nothing like the world and we have gone too far the other way. If that makes sense?? It’s sometimes hard to explain things by typing! lol! πŸ™‚

          • Hey @ruthie_c:disqus & @disqus_4aLd26vJM2:disqus I agree with your thoughts on the “healthy relationship to show some physical affection” & the “have gone too far the other way.” Some put a lot of emphasis on an external purity of behavior, where our focus should be internal purity of soul; Psalm 51:10 β€œCreate in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.” God is the one who makes our hearts pure, when we put Jesus first in ALL our relationships, our boundaries will honour Him, because He is at work in us πŸ™‚

          • @al_ive:disqus, I totally agree with your point. My comment was already getting long and I didn’t want to make it any longer. Ultimately if your heart is in the right place, your actions will be too. Luke 6:45 is a great verse, it’s the one that talks about how out of the abundance of your heart, the mouth speaks. And I think it goes for actions too! πŸ™‚ Actions do speak louder than words.

      • True. Sometimes I think, “I really want to stay pure and be proud of that” and whatever, but other times I think it’s impossible to show affection and have everybody think you’re being pure. Is your boyfriend your brother? Nope. He’s (hopefully) a future husband for you. Of course you shouldn’t go too far, but holding hands isn’t a big deal, guys. I actually hold a friend or sibling’s hand sometimes. I give them hugs and sit by them on the couch. Just treat your guy like a best friend, because that’s how it’s supposed to be. (please excuse me hopeless ranting :D)

        • @disqus_20sNkO4gPg:disqus SAME!!! I honestly just don’t understand why people think holding hands is such a big deal.I can understand people not wanting to hug, but holding hands?!
          “Treat them like a best friend” is the perfect way to describe it. πŸ™‚

      • You brought up some very good points. Let me clarify a couple things. First of all, I was talking before marrige not after. They are your brothers in Christ. It is sweet when a guy shows compassion and love, that was the reason I used the “brothers” illustration. You obviously love your brothers and they love you back but you need to keep your purity safe and secure. Thank you!

        • I never said anything about not keeping my “purity safe and secure” when I was 13 I asked my parents for a purity ring, and it isn’t something I take lightly. I am never going to give up my purity before marriage. And I don’t think holding hands with my future boyfriend is going to make me a non-pure bride someday. We both clearly have different ideas of where the boundaries lie between a boyfriend and girlfriend, and I respect you in however you decide to court a guy someday. πŸ™‚ But most of all, we just need to make sure our hearts in the right place before dating any guys. I like the quote “A girl should be so lost in God, that the guy needs God’s help to find her.” and vice versa! πŸ™‚

  • My opinion has probably been stated a few times already, but I suppose I’ll put it out there anyway.
    1 It’s all about your motives. Why do you want to hug and kiss. 2 It’s all about respect. Are you respecting them or taking advantage of them. 3 Here’s something my mom brought up: If you are married and are kissing your spouse the memories of all the other people you’ve kissed are going to come up. Do you really want that. 5 this may be my most important point! It’s YOUR body YOUR rules! Just because culture, media, friends, or even boyfriend/girlfriend may say go ahead doesn’t mean that you should. It’s YOUR body not THEIRS YOU are in control and YOU have the power to say “NO”. 6 Lastly, your body is a gift from GOD, He made you and knows what’s best for you. Always look to Him for guidance!

  • Jediah, thank you so much for being so truthful and personal. You are absolutely right with all of these. Yes, you made mistakes, but not only will these mistakes teach other people, they will and have taught you.

  • I personally think you should set boundaries so you aren’t tempted.
    All my siblings held hands when they were courting, and they had no problems. If for some odd reason you feel like holding hands will lead you to something that goes against God, then don’t hold hands. All my siblings hugged their significant others… no problems or temptations arose. But if that is something that you feel uncomfortable with, then don’t hug. There is nothing wrong with hugging, or holding hands, even SOMETIMES kissing *gasp*. πŸ˜‰ God commands us NOT to…well the christian friendly version: sleep together before marriage. If there is something in your relationship that you think will make you stumble then draw the line and say, “I can’t do that, it makes me think about our relationship in the wrong way.” If that makes sense? I think it’s all personal preference. A verse I like is Romans 14:13 – “Therefore let us not pass judgement on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.” ….and sister! πŸ™‚

  • This was a great answer to the question! Thanks for sharing! I also think that it is up to each couple but that completely avoiding physical contact is not for everyone.

  • I haven’t read near all of the input on here, so I’ll just add my 2 cents. If physical contact of any kind causes you to think wrong thoughts, or desire wrong things, than don’t do them. I agree with Anna that we should set boundaries for ourselves and our relationships. Our primary goal should be to honor God with our relationships. Great question Amanda!

  • Some Christian couples before they start courting, dating, or whatever, sit down and together decide on a list of boundaries they wish to set and help each other maintain. Boundaries that help protect your heart and purity before marriage, based on your own convictions and temptations.

    I think this is an excellent thing to do, because then they can hold each other accountable, and sometimes they will even have chaperons to ensure that they are never alone together for too long, and assist them with accountability. Some decide on no physical contact at all before marriage, while others allow things like side hugs, or holding hands once engaged, while will others are less guarded.

    I think it all depends on your own unique situation, but once you have decided on your boundaries, to veer from them in any way will only damage your relationship, so put a lot of prayer and careful thought into them first.

    The idea is to to save intimacy for marriage, so that it will be special, and so that if the relationship doesn’t lead to marriage after all, there won’t be a lot of regrets and baggage left from it. So, yes, I suppose you will have to personally decide what you consider to be intimate, or what involves you too far emotionally with a guy.

    A lot of physical contact with a guy can cloud your judgment early in a relationship, and make it difficult to form an accurate opinion of his character and the qualities you desire in a husband. (Keep in mind I speak only from observation, since I have never been involved in a relationship with a guy, so I would consider talking to a couple who has experience in this area, and may be able to give you some advice) Anyway, I hope this helps!

  • Question a) is a good one… I’m pretty protective of my siblings! Okay, my younger sister would say I’m really protective.

  • Well, you’re asking a hard (but good) question. Extremely controversial for some though. I’ll keep this short, and I will only speak for my personal standards.

    As I am currently unattached, I try not touch guys affectionately unless it is hugging. (more about that later) Playful physical contact is completely fine and even fun. But when it gets to look like I am obviously flirting, I cut it short. What I am mostly worried about is his reputation and mine. I do not want to look like a player. -_-

    When I start a relationship with a guy, I will have to judge then and talk to my boyfriend about how much he can handle and still keep his thoughts pure about me. I don’t want him to struggle with lust because of me. There are plenty of girls out there who are doing it already and I am sure that they don’t need my help. πŸ˜‰

    Oh and about hugging, there are some guys I know who enjoy hugs, and I do hug guys when we see each other. I can’t explain exactly why, but we just do. I guess it just has something to do with being friendly. Some guys I know can’t handle full hugs, so I only give them a side hug. And then there are other guys who are just fine with full hugs and I will give them a full hug gladly and with a big smile.

    • Yeah that’s kinda how I am with the hug thing. I hug my female friends already, so it seems natural to me to hug a guy friend. I don’t really see a problem with it unless it is causing lust in one or both of us.

        • Haha πŸ™‚ that you did.

          I don’t really have guy friends–maybe one or two. But the ones I do have usually get hugs because I’m just that way. πŸ˜› I even hug like my pastor and youth pastor and stuff lol…guess they’re considered my friends too.

          • My pastor is big on hugs. Our church is fun that way. πŸ˜‰ I love our church. Big on hugs, super friendly, Texan in every aspect. Oh, and family-integrated and mainly homeschooled.
            @Amanda, what is your church like?

          • Well, we have about 1,000 people now, but only a few homeschool families (I’m homeschooled too though). Our default settings are prayer and discipleship. Our vision statement is “transformed followers of Jesus, passionately responding to God, rooted in prayer and equipping disciples.” Everything we do is based on that vision. We’re nondenominational. We just use the Bible as our guide and try to imitate the New Testament church. Our pastor is a crazy southerner who is very energetic and super excited and totally radical for Christ. Pretty much everything I just said is a new development because most of our staff is new. It’s been awesome. πŸ™‚ The church is really coming together around this vision and making it happen!

  • Wow thanks for your opinion! I grew up hugging girls but one of my new friends doesnt even like me touching her!(not inappropriately just arm on shoulder hug ) I thought it was because she didnt like Me touching her! I get it now though! Thanks! Plus im the same age/grade as you so thats cool=)

    • Hey no problem πŸ™‚ Yeah, if a guy tries to like even give me a high five I’m kinda like no…….. It just makes me feel uncomfortable. Not really sure why but it does. (Well the high five thing not the hug thing) Also, awesome that we are the same age! Virtually everyone is older than me on here!

      • Thanks again. Do guys treat you right do you think? I think a lot of guys are jerks towards girls but I want a gev (girls eye view)

        • Well, generally I’m pretty easy going on the whole treating me a certain way just because I’m not exactly self-conscious and I’m pretty confident in who I am, so if someone makes a rude comment towards me, it doesn’t bother me that much. However, some comments or even looks from guys make me so so so mad. For all the guys out there: we girls know when you are giving us the side eye, or not looking at our faces but our certain features. And no it’s not a compliment. It makes us feel like an object rather than a person. I’m pretty sure I speak for all girls when I say that. But most of the people I’m around are Christians, obviously not all but most, so I feel like the guys are kind and respectful to me. Generally. Also, I kinda feel like every guy knows this but without fail, someone will make some sort of comment referring to a girls weight. Even though most people won’t say anything like “You’re fat”, etc. just because that’s obviously rude, making comments towards girls who are skinny is offensive too. Like I’m pretty thin, stick like actually, it’s just the way I’m naturally built, (And we are talking really thin here, like I’m 5’5″ and weigh around 97 pounds) and you have NO IDEA how many comments I have gotten that are rude about my weight. The most common one, “Are you like, anorexic?” Literally. Come. Freaking. On. No, I’m not anorexic or bulimic, and I don’t have any sort of eating disorder, I don’t diet, I don’t do anything to stay this way, I’m just thin. Deal. Wow that turned into an incredibly long rant… Hope that helps!

          • Ugh I hate when guys talk about girls. They make them sound like candy not people. Also guys need to tell girls they are pretty more. Thanks for the tips/news. I think you are very pretty and if other guys dont than they are stupid or dull. Or both lol. Wait they are the same thing…..but some girls need to dress more appropriately. Like I dont want to stare but crop tops are just…eww belly button and chest at same time

          • 1) The candy… yeah I am not candy.
            2) I agree. Everyone thinks it’s awkward to compliment the opposite gender, but if it happened more it wouldn’t be! And thank you. Honestly not sure if any guy has ever said that to me, with the exception of my dad and stuff. Well, there have been a few but only guys that like LIKED me liked me.
            3) Yeah, I agree. I know it’s not like guys TRY to lust after girls….. so honestly (and all the radical feminists out there will hate me for saying this) if you’re stomach and chest is hanging out, guys will look. Period. Not saying you’re asking to have a guy do anything else towards you, whether it be comments or anything else, but still…… I do own crop tops, I think they are cute, but I ALWAYS wear a tank top underneath!

          • Clothes aren’t bad its how you wear them ! Is playing the guitar hard? I have one and am trying to learn how to play!

          • I’m still technically learning… But I love it! I have relatively small hands so some of the bar chords are nearly impossible! But picking isn’t as hard as I thought it would be… Once you learn the notes and such. It is definitely easier than piano!

          • Nice! I have just a normal Breedlove acoustic and would love to buy a PRS electric, but that probably won’t happen πŸ™ What brand you got?

          • Breedlove is like my dream brand… I have a really inexpensive Epiphone one that works but I need to save up more money before I purchase a new one!

          • nice! I have a super-cheap guitar that broke, and i got to fix it and keep it!

          • they are good to learn on, but my bridge is to high so the strings are too far off the fretboard and it is incredibly difficult to push the strings down…. but watev

          • well they meet 2nd and 4th saturdays. the 2nd is at the senior center and the 4th is in Grainer (Barnes) and you bring accoustic instruments and play songs from 10:00 to 11:30.

          • Epiphone is a decent start. Breedlove makes good guitars but they’re not cheap! If you want to spend that kind of money you should look at Taylor and Ovation as well.

          • I feel your pain. No one I know has been rude enough to teasingly suggest anorexia, but still. Most people have the sense not to make fun of someone who is overweight, but does it occur to the people making fun of skinny girls that you’re still making fun of a human being?
            On top of it all, I’m really tall, so it makes my slimness stand out that much more. But I’m happy being tall and I’m happy being slim, because I’m happy being just the way God made me. So whatever, world.
            Thanks for letting me jump in on your rant. πŸ™‚

          • Good to know someone else has the same problem @Kittenese:disqus! I wouldn’t say I’m very tall, but I’m not short either so…. I love this: “But I’m happy being tall and I’m happy being slim, because I’m happy being just the way God made me. So whatever, world.”

          • First of all, I don’t know all the details of your story and I could be completely wrong (so if I mess this up majorly please don’t be offended). Have you thought that maybe people ask you if you are anorexic because they want to make sure you’re OK? I know that a lot of people die or get hurt from eating disorders and if somebody thought that you had anorexia, they’d want to help, right? Think about your best friend or a family member you love. If they showed the signs of an eating disorder, would you want to help? I know I would! However, if people are teasing you/making fun of your body type, I agree 100% that that is not okay. Again, maybe this won’t help you at all, but hopefully it does!

          • I get what you are saying about the whole making sure I’m OK, but the thing is a lot of times these people say this when they barely know me! The other funny thing is, I eat like a horse, like literally last week I ate an entire half of a pizza. I think most of the time they are saying it not out of genuine concern but to pretty much make fun of me. Almost as a comparison like “You’re as skinny as someone who starves themselves!” But I definitely get you’re point.

          • Gotcha… Yeah I make it a point to never comment about girls weight… It’s bad all around πŸ™‚ and I kinda get it cuz I weigh less than just about all guys I know and a lot of girls I hang around… So I get weight jokes to. Also, if I think i might maybe want to get a certain girl to hang out with me, how should I go about doing that? I’m 20 and she’s about the same age, a little younger. So (blush blush) any advice from ya’ll ladies?

          • Carson just asked the same question so I’ll copy over what I said to him! (It’s so cute you guys keep asking how to impress a girl… LOL honestly if you care that much she should like LOVE u)

            well….. every girl is different and honestly there isn’t really anything you can do to make her fall in love with you… there’s some things that could help but nothing is definite… it just kind of… happens. HOWEVER, I do have a few things to suggest that may or may not have made me perhaps like some certain people… a lot. πŸ˜€ (She better be a Christian bro, she better be Christian) This is kind of a mixed list of things that show that you are an awesome person, and thing that I find attractive in guys.

            1) BE RESPECTFUL! I cannot stress this enough. Be kind, treat her like she is the most important person in the world, never say anything mean or rude, be there for her. Like, you can ignore all the rest of these (or not) and just do this one. Seriously. IMPORTANCE!

            2) Honestly, the single I guess hottest thing that guys do ever in life like just stop you’ll make me fall for you (Ahem I can’t believe I’m even doing this comment yo) : Being. Good. With. Kids. Come on may all the girls say AMEN. Pure amazingness. I mean, you can’t really fake it, but when a guy is like playing with kids and entertaining them and giving piggy back rides and show them games etc. just wow. I guess it’s our motherly instincts kicking in and saying you would be a good dad but YAS.

            3) Don’t talk bad about people. Ever. It makes you look bad, and then we wonder if you ever talk bad about us.

            4) Don’t be afraid to compliment her! Obviously don’t be weird or rude about it, but complimenting her, especially on something besides her looks (brains, creativeness, etc.), just makes us feel special. Complimenting on looks too is nice, obviously, but I personally like it when people GENUINELY (never make it fake, always make it true) compliment me saying that I’m funny or smart or stuff like that.

            5) Eye contact. It is actually scientifically proven that I believe 20 seconds of unbroken eye contact can make people fall in love. Now 20 seconds is pretty long and awkward, but still making eye contact is good.

            6)… Some of these are unnecessary, some are weird, but also some are definitely true. Just check it out and see what you feel comfortable with.

            7) Ok I don’t mean to be rude here, or offensive but i feel like it kind of needs to be said. I know puberty is awkward for guys too, but….. OK here goes: you know when you are just beginning to grow facial hair and you have like a super thin little mustache? Shave. Do it. Honestly, not attractive. It will take you less than a minute and then you look nice. Shaving really isn’t hard. I mean we girls shave our legs, armpits, sometimes faces (yes we get little mustaches too!) and more, it takes time and effort but we still do it. And most of us (well the girls I know) start shaving from before the time we are 12. It’s annoying, but it’s part of life. This is kind of an odd one out, but yeah it just needed to be said.

            Anyways, that’s only a few and I’m sure other girls have more ideas, but that’s what I could think of for right now.

          • Thank you grace! I love you!!!!!! I am so using some of those. Though when around some people I start staring at my shoes and saying weird stuff I will try eye contact! Whoever”certain people” is they are the one of the luckist men ali=e to have you! Btw its nice to know girls dig guys who like kids…(I adore those boogers)

          • LOL you are welcome…. And also thank you! I’m actually considering making a blog called Girls Eye View where guys can comment on certain topics and me and some other girls that are sort of Disqus friends can answer their questions! Not sure my parents will ever approve of that… but I will try!

          • Honestly end of school year craziness pretty much takes up my schedule.. and then I try to reply to all these comments… I’m so popular *cracking up* BUT if I had more time, I love photography (taking and editing pictures) pretty much anything to do with beauty (hair makeup nails etc.) shopping (I don’t exactly buy a ton of stuff but I do like keeping up with trends so yeah) and um… I don’t know I’ve been so busy for the past 6 months with moving and school and winter and school and school and school and guess what? SCHOOL that my hobbies have kind of wandered away into who knows where. πŸ™ But yeah I’m kind of boring as far as hobbies go so…

          • Lol. Its ok. I have 2 friends and one doesnt really like me but ive become fond of her so…Really im pretty much done with school. I guess my program is easier. Lol im almost 14 and my favorite hobbies are building/playing with legos reading and video games so I think im the boring one.

          • Honestly I have only watched one… the 2012 Amazing Spiderman one…. (I have also never seen Star Wars IKR)

          • The amazing spiderman is cool. Never…seen…starwars…..!=0 Lol im not a huge fan but there ok.

          • yup πŸ™‚ have to turn off my computer so I’ll be back tomorrow! Bye for now!

          • Also what about your faith? You havnt talked about that much. (No offense just curious)

          • I am Christian! Yes I read my Bible, go to church, live by the Bible, my beliefs are based off of it… full on Christian….

          • To all guys for the record, absolute YES about being good with kids – it is the cutest thing EVER!!! πŸ˜€

          • That’s sweet Jess, just saying! πŸ™‚
            Advice? Here’s some thoughts:

            1) Start by continuing to building your relationship with God. A man who is a strong leader, patient, a listener but speaks wisdom, seeks justice but grants mercy… those are huge traits a Christian girl looks for in a guy (at least I and my girl friends do).
            2) Find ways to serve with her. If you’re considering to get to know her more with the intentions of possibly marriage, you’d be serving God with her together for the rest of your life. The more I serve in my church or in my group of friends, the more I know whether or not I could live with them. But it’s a great way to get close and know each other more in a Christ-centered way.
            3) Just be yourself. No girl wants a guy to pretend to be someone he isn’t just to get her attention.
            4) Figure out where she’s at. Is she ready to begin a relationship? Don’t get discourage if she would want more time out didn’t feel ready – she’s being real and doesn’t want to hurt you or herself.
            5) Initiate! Girls want guys to be initiators and leaders! If you want to spend with her, just ask!!! Especially if you’ve know her for a while, just ask (did I say that enough times? Lol)

            Hope this helps! πŸ˜€

          • I know this post is old and you may not need advice anymore, but treat her with respect. A girl wants to feel safe, no matter what type of relationship. Be willing to stick up for her and do not, I repeat, do not flirt with her. That’s never a good idea. Girls get the wrong impression. Compliments are fine but she doesn’t always look beautiful in a sweaty tee shirt and stained gym shorts ;0)

      • well.. I’m weird so…. :’D IDK getting used to the high five thing…. And the whole dating in high school thing… I am not fully opposed to it. I think 16 at the youngest. Plus, I don’t plan on going far for college and I would rather get married younger rather than older so…. idk see where life goes I guess!

      • Yeah, no offense @gracemuncey:disqus or anyone else, but I’m really surprised that some people would have a problem with high fives or handshakes. I guess that’s a thing though. Personally I don’t hug guys that often, just because I don’t know many guys really well right now. But if a guy hugged me [at an appropriate time, in an appropriate way] I wouldn’t feel scandalized or anything.
        @programguy:disqus Wow, it sounds like that girl was overreacting. From (this) girl’s perspective anyway. A handshake shouldn’t be offensive, in my view. People do it in business settings all the time, and in some situations it’s just appropriate to shake hands. Usually it’s with adults though.
        Anyway, just some thoughts. πŸ™‚

        • Oh and I agree with you on the high school dating thing. My parents have asked that I not have an official relationship with a guy until (at least) college, which will be when I’m 17. I know couples who dated in high school and have a great marriage now, and I don’t think it’s a “sin”. Just not the best option for me at this point in my life.

          • When I say dating though….. I mean going out on dates NOT having a serious boyfriend/exclusive relationship. I think 18 is a good age for that. It’s just that I think getting married at 20 isn’t a bad thing, or a little bit older, I want to be a mom and meet my grandkids and stuff while I don’t need a wheelchair.

          • Yes! I’m all for getting married at a young age. My youth pastor says that if more people got married young instead of in their 30’s (not that that’s wrong!), we might see less sexual immorality because they won’t be waiting as long.
            I actually have a friend who just got engaged to my uncle’s brother, and they’re both around 20. We’re all *very* excited since everyone could see it coming for several years. πŸ˜‰ She’s still finishing college and he just graduated, so they won’t have much money at least for a while. But I’m pretty confident they’ll do fine.

          • That whole staying pure thing is one of the reasons, also just that I want to still be youthful when I have kids. My parents were in their 30s and 40s when I was born, and not that they are old, they aren’t, but I want to be younger. Don’t you love that when you’re like OH I CALL IT THEY ARE GOING TO GET MARRIED and then they do and your like HA knew it yo!

          • Haha! Yep. And yes- not that there’s anything necessarily wrong with getting married later in life, but it would be nice to be younger so I’m able to have a big family (Lord willing, of course).

          • Yeah… it’s complicated… The long explanation is that my mom’s sister’s husband’s younger brother is getting married to one of my friends. Make sense? πŸ˜›

          • Is it scary that I actually understood that? But then my uncles and aunts on my mom’s side are actually my mom’s cousin AND step-siblings… the family complications of your grandmother divorcing and marrying her ex-husband’s brother… πŸ˜›

        • No offense taken @ruthie_c:disqus! I’m homeschooled… so #homeschooledproblems but idk usually it doesnt bother me but there are guys who will take every chance to get physical contact with a girl.. that’s when it seems awkward or whatever. And handshakes don’t bother me at all. The thing is, there has never been a time where it was appropriate for a guy to hug me, I could see in certain situations boundaries can be broken to a certain extent. If a guy was super depressed, or being bullied, or thinking of cutting, or anything like that, I wouldn’t think twice about giving them a hug. That is absolutely fine for me! Same with if I was in that situation. That usually just doesn’t happen, plus I don’t have any close guy friends at the moment.

          • I’m homeschooled too :D. so I totally get #homeschooledproblems! Yeah, I hate it when guys are being creepy and trying to get as close as they can to a girl. That’s just not right. I get what you’re saying!

          • First of all, cool! And yeah its weird. That’s what I mean with the high fiving and such. It all depends on the guy. If I had a really close guy friend, I even think hugging might be ok. But I don’t, so for the time being, its not.

          • Good thoughts! One thing I’ll add, if you do have Christian friends struggling with depression, cutting, suicide, being bullied, etc., I’ve found that taking that moment to pray for them with them has had the biggest and best impact.
            I speak from experience. I’ve struggled with suicide and have an ongoing strugglwith depression and anxiety (to the point of chest pain, numb arms, and twice anxiety attacks), as well as more recently and only occasionally cutting. For me, if I was sharing this with a guy and then he comes around and give me a big hug and tells me everything is going to be okay… I don’t know, it’s not (personally)really going to help putting my focus in the right place because I’m thinking about the fact that this nice guy is so kind and understanding and – I don’t know, but it’s almost making me now slightly dependant on him. What I found is the best for me is the guy offering to pray with me right then. The guy is then helping me point my focus back to God. If

      • Hey, from another person who doesn’t hug/really do any contact with guys… For me, high-fives are okay, but obs not for others.
        I think handshakes can mean different things depending on how you do it… I mean, I have this one guy friend where the way we met was, I walked up to him and introduced myself with a handshake (he was new at my church, so… I don’t usually walk up to random guys) There a handshake is normal, but if we knew each other for a while and then one day you walked up to me and shook my hand, I’d probably wonder what was up. And if I already liked you, I will admit I might go crazy about it.
        Same here about a gf/bf in high school. It seems pointless…

        • Well, if she was new… From the times I was new myself, I can tell you that if you just walk up to someone new and talk to them, you automatically become one of the best people in the room. Guy or girl, it doesn’t matter; the fact that you cared enough about the “new kid” that you made them feel welcome will make you look pretty awesome πŸ™‚
          Seriously, I would say it wasn’t your fault, nor was it the handshake. It was that somebody said “hi” when she was new, and then that somebody was a guy!

      • I’ve never heard of a girl going crazy over a handshake… I think she would go crazy in Quebec with the kisses on the cheek.
        Are you not in high school yet @Sam S. ? Just want to say I always appreciate your comments – you display a lot of spiritual maturity for someone your age. A lot of you guys & girls here do – makes this 21-girl feel old πŸ˜›

        • Haha, I wasn’t looking down on you guys at all – I had just assumed I was the same age as many of you so it surprised me πŸ™‚ And I wasn’t trying to point our anything or say you made a mistake – it didn’t come across as such in my mind.
          Sorry if I offended you or anyone else – I don’t always know how to word things πŸ˜›

          • Wow, the world of miscommunication.. glad we got this all straightened out! πŸ™‚

        • Another Amanda!! That makes 4 of us! Welcome to the family. πŸ™‚

          I agree, Sam is a great guy. πŸ™‚

  • Hey shelby can I add to your “pray about it”, “…and Pray together” as well? πŸ™‚ Praying together helps keep the focus on Jesus and I agree “God is the ultimate reason for purity”

  • I kinda wish more guys would speak there minds on this topic… don’t worry… we don’t bite! As I’m scrolling through the comments… it’s pretty clear the girls have a lot to say! Lol

    Guys and girls who are NOT in a relationship: anything more than a hug or a “holy kiss” is completely awkward! And just to specify what I mean by “holy kiss”… in some cultures, a “kiss” is acceptable or sometimes even expected when greeting someone.

    Guys and girls who ARE in a relationship: until you discuss the bounderies with each other, keep physical contact minimal… (treat him like you would a brother) any “godly advice” from your family, friends, or pastor can be helpful too. The Bible should be your number one guide! It really does have all the answers. When you become infatuated with someone, it can be hard to see that “line you once drew”… which is why it’s a great idea to tell a trusted family member or friend about the bounderies you’ve made. They will help keep you accountable.

    Me personally (a girl): I treat all Christian men like brothers… if I’m in a relationship with a guy, I might get a little “goo goo-eyed” but he is still first and foremost a brother in CHRIST! And we are both witnesses of CHRIST… in all that we do!

    • And yeah there are like no guys πŸ™‚ Well, some but most just reply to comments LOL. Also, great great advice!

          • well in that case… I think that hugging is ok in a relationship. I also think some kissing could be alright, the reason for this is that in some cultures that is the way they greet one another. in a relationship if you just kiss on the cheek then I believe it is fine. any further then no…

          • I agree! But I still don’t want to be like dating for a day and all the sudden BAM you are constantly in an embrace you know?

          • Agreed. I think side hugs and hand-holding is fine, but personally, I’d want to save full-on hugs for a while until we really get to know each other.

          • – The person you are attempting to reply to has died from severe laugh-itis. Please try again later.

            Lol XD I’m glad you liked it!

          • Mwahaha! *twirls mustache villainously*

            Is villainously a word? And FYI, I don’t have a mustache to twirl. πŸ˜‰

            And, so you know, I’m lovin’ your responses just as much. =)

          • *dies*

            Now you’ve got me thinking about Larry the cucumber’s great aunt Ruth…who had a beard…and it felt weird… πŸ˜›

            Are you doing DHTU?

          • Copycat! Lol πŸ™‚
            Gah, a VeggieTales reference…and I’m coming up empty! What are you talking about??
            No, I’m not, but I’m hoping to join when it becomes an option. Are you?

          • Yeah I am πŸ™‚ it’s been awesome!!

            I think he mentions his aunt Ruth in a couple different silly songs, but one of them is the one about lips. Here’s the link

            Sorry I just had to copy you there πŸ™‚

          • Yeah I know what you mean. Now that disney owns it there’s going to be a problem. The older ones are good though πŸ™‚

          • Yes. πŸ™ I’ve seen a couple minutes of the Disney-owned version. Really sad. And bad. πŸ˜› Especially considering what it used to be.

          • I KNOW!! To say the new ones are terrible is an understatement. Did you see “The Princess and The Popstar”? Not only does it completely misquote the Bible, its focus and content are just wrong. Especially for kids! I could rant about this for at least 5 solid minutes…

          • YES!!! I haven’t seen Princess and the Popstar yet, but I know that the newer ones have gotten really mainstream (ok that just made me feel like a hipster=P). But anyway the League of Incredible Vegetables was almost shallow. Like “I don’t have to be afraid! I have God!” and I’m just like “wait, that’s it?! Nothing deeper? You’re not even mentioning that Junior could have avoided his suit shorting out had he only been patient and/or listened to the instructions?!” shameful=P and has anyone seen new netflix series “veggietales in the house”? I saw part of the first episode and I almost cried! DO NOT BE FOOLED!!! IT’S NOT VEGGIETALES!!!! The only newer one I really like is Celery Night Fever (I liked the 70’s throwback) Ok I think I’m done ranting for now:)

          • I also find it hilarious how this post is supposed to be about physical boundaries and now we’ve moved on to VeggieTales! Maybe I should actually comment about the post…

          • I have seen parts of Veggie Tales in the House. It’s shameful. Just shameful. I can’t believe people are actually into this stuff.
            Even the new Silly Songs are terrible! D:

          • I’m thriving off of the VeggieTales references! My fav VeggieTales song for years was “God is Bigger than the Boogyman!”

          • I’m trying to say something witty about how not every Aunt Ruth has a beard… I’m not coming up with anything…

          • Well, I’m not an aunt *yet*, but when I am I don’t plan on having noticeable facial hair. lol

          • Lol that’s good πŸ™‚ otherwise I would feel really bad for your nieces and nephews…

          • I won’t be an aunt for long time. I’m a freshman in high school and I’m the oldest of my siblings.

          • Yeah πŸ™‚ my cousins are mostly older than me though…I just see cute kids at church πŸ™‚

          • Ugh, that moment of searching…searching…nah, I don’t have anything witty to say. And it’s a hundred times worse when you’re actually talking face to face with people. πŸ˜›

          • Yup. πŸ™‚ At least online, no one knows we sat in front of a blank screen for ten minutes trying to come up with something decently funny to say.

          • If my lips ever left my mouth, packed a bag and headed south, that’d be too bad, I might get mad, I’d call my dad, that’d be to bad…on the day I lost my tooth, I had to kiss my great aunt Ruth, she had a beard, and it felt weird…it’s a lip, it’s a lip, it’s a lip, lip, lip………lol that is going to be stuck in my head forever now

          • I got my lips stuck in a gate and…the fire department came and broke the lock with a crowbar and then I had to spend the next six weeks in lip rehab with this guy named Oscar and we couldn’t even talk to each other for the first week because our lips were so swollen cause he got stung by a bee RIGHT ON THE LIP and etcetera etcetera hahahaha yeahhhhh me too haha. =P

          • Okay. I feel left out now. I never knew that there were so many others who actually could quote that song. Awesome!

          • Hey Josh! Hope this doesn’t offend you, but may I ask why you are following me? Heads up, I’m usually not allowed to talk to guys on social networks. Just would be great if I could know your point of view.

          • I’m not Josh, but on Disqus “following” someone just means that the comments they post show up in your email notifications. It’s different than in most social networking sites. Don’t feel bad or anything, Disqus was pretty confusing for me when I first started using it too. πŸ™‚

          • Yep! To echo what Ruthie C. said, following is something that is popular here. πŸ™‚ it just means (for me) that I like the input the person put into the conversation and found it helpful and uplifting. Hopefully that helps a little!

          • Hey Christina!

            No offense taken! If you look at my profile, you’ll see that I’m following a bunch of people – honestly, I follow most people I come across. I just unfollowed you, though, if that’s what you want. =)

            Hey, one more thing: if you would like to make your account to where people can’t follow you, there’s a setting in your profile that you can switch from “public” to “private”. It’s under “profile” where you set your picture and stuff.

            Hope this helps!


          • Thanks for the clarification! I don’t mind if I have followers, but it is kind of new for me to have people looking at everything I write.

            Lol sorry :P… Best Veggie Tales song ever, in my opinion.

    • Yeah, (obviously) in our culture a kiss is usually more of a big deal, but in other cultures it’s sort of an expected greeting. Culture has a huge, huge part in where we “draw the line”.

    • Yeah… in Quebec where my relatives live, it is normal to greet each other (regardless of gender) with a “kiss” on both cheeks, especially close friends or at church.
      Here in Nova Scotia, though, I would never think of doing such a thing.
      Having dated and kissed before, I don’t want or appreciate guys kissing me (whether mouth or cheeks or head or whatever). I don’t belong to them, but to God first, and then to my future spouse. I may not be able to give my husband my first kiss on my wedding day, but I purpose to keep myself for God and for him from here-on out.

  • It’s a really good idea to have your morals in place like this BEFORE you start high school! I’m really glad you are thinking about this now, because trust me, if you don’t have morals in place before you are tempted, it’s gonna be super hard to fight the temptation. Speaking from experience πŸ™‚ I was so happy to read this comment!

  • What about kissing? Part of me wants to save that for my wedding day – how cool would that be? But at the same time, I feel like I’m kind of missing out on a great moment here. What does a kiss mean for a guy? If that causes him to sin, I won’t do it, but if it’s okay with him, it’s a possibility. Come on males! What does a kiss mean to you?

    • A better question would be, what does a kiss mean to you? How are you missing out on a great moment here? I know from my married siblings that they wouldn’t choose to move faster if they had the chance to do it over again. They’ve never looked back and said, “Man, I wish I’d held hands with Amanda earlier,” or “You know, it would have been so much better if we’d kissed when Jeff proposed to me.”
      I know that’s not your question, but still… I couldn’t resist weighing in!

      • Yeah after reading these comments, and even before, I’ve made the decision to save kissing for marriage. I even a promise ring my dad gave me πŸ™‚ and thanks for the advice

    • I’m obviously not a guy… but I though I would weigh in! I agree with @mimeforjesus:disqus and @programguy:disqus that I think kissing is unnecessary…. It may be hard to not kiss before your wedding day… But my thought process is that if you are trying not to kiss, you won’t really be trying not to sleep with each other, just because you haven’t kissed yet! If you are already kissing and hugging, especially when you are alone, then it becomes even more difficult to stay pure until your wedding night. I don’t know, just my thoughts.

    • I am not a guy (clearly), but it isn’t just what a kiss means to a guy. A kiss can end up making a girl have feelings that she should restrain from until after the wedding too. There is this idea going around that only guys mess up and do things they shouldn’t before they are married. But girls do it too. And I don’t think you should really kiss until marriage or engagement, just because it keeps it special. And you don’t want to kiss someone and then they break up with you, that would really stink. I think a kiss at the engagement is fine (and really sweet) just as long as the guy and girl don’t start making out. πŸ˜‰ And it really depends on the heart. And the motive behind the kiss.

      • Thanks Anna! I have never kissed a boy and I do not plan to until my wedding day. Honestly, I used to have dreams about kissing a boy. As I now recall these dreams, I remember them as horrible regrets. Guys please think VERY carefully before you make any actions. Girls,too.

        • I guess I should specify my view on this matter. I believe that kissing before marriage can be very harmful. As kissing can bring about unwanted effects, I hope to stay faaaar away from it. Although I believe that hugging and holding hands can be harmful as well, I believe that in some circumstances it would be okay. I myself plan to have as little physical contact with the opposite gender as possible.

      • As someone who kissed with my ex-boyfriend, I have purposed not to kiss a guy again until my wedding. I know where it took me mentally when dating (to the point of temptation of intimacy), and after we broke up (I struggled with pornographic videos for months – even now, almost 1.5 years later, I still have to be careful when I’m on the internet). Song of Solomon says not to awaken love before it’s time – I now sadly know why.

        • Good points, @amanda_pitre:disqus
          Like I said, it is all personal preference. I have never dated so my views and how I feel might end up changing once I am with a guy, plus it depends on how the guy feels too. If he thinks hugging or cuddling will make him stumble then I won’t tempt him, that would make me a bad girlfriend! I will be praying for you, I understand how hard temptation is.It gets better with God’s help! πŸ™‚

    • #ImAGuy I haven’t ever kissed before (‘Cause I’m only 14. Thank the Lord) But I guess I ought to give advice.

      I’d say a quick hello peck would be fine. Just don’t do all-out making out (hey, that rhymes!)

      Of course it pretty much depends on you. It’s your call, no one can make it for you.

    • Alright, well, I see not many other guys have answered your question, so here goes. For me, a kiss would be too far (probably). At this point in my life, I intend to save it until marriage. But it all depends on the guy, I think. I can answer you for me personally, but I’m sure there are guys out there who are very different from me!

  • I like your car analogy πŸ™‚ and good questions to think about. That will help people set boundaries in the right places.

  • I don’t know if this discussion is completely closed off now or not, but I’d like to weigh in. I know that all of you share similar views in this and I am very thankful and glad for that.

    First off, I’m a freshman that attends a public high school. Everything is allowed as public displays of affection as long as the clothes stay on (we did have a couple doing things in a family restroom that got them suspended). There’s a game among upperclassmen to steal as many freshman virginities as possible. The middle school dress code so harshly enforced went out the window. There are no real boundaries enforced. It’s a hard place to live out the Christian lifestyle outlined in the Bible. I guess this is also an area where being in the world and not of it comes into play.

    To the actual quesion: I’m not sure that the question, “How far is too far?” is a fair question to ask. No one would ask how close to the interstate roads could they walk without being run over, or how far someone could get to the edge of a cliff without falling off. Instead, shouldn’t we ask, “How far can I run from temptation?” We should run from lustful/sexual temptation, not fight it. Sexual temptation is one of the sins that affect our relationships with people and God the most.

    I believe you should do whatever it takes to protect your purity, since it’s priceless. If that means no physical contact and always being in a lit place with other people- do that. If it means a kiss goodnight and holding hands while your significant other drives the car on the way to a dark movie theater- do that (but be safe since driving one handed and distracted is very dangerous). This is an area in our lives that we don’t really need lots of opinions on or loose interpretations, but rather obedience to God’s Word.

    Again, I am so grateful to be able to be in community with such amazing people who actually care about God, life, and purity. I’m glad we are on this crazy road of following Jesus together as the Bride of Christ!

    God Bless!

    Some resources to check out: Relationship Status videos
    Gateway Students iTunes Podcasts RelationSlips series and Puzzled
    Pastor Chris Durso did a series entitled BAE.

    • Very good point! While asking “How far is too far?” may sound like a worthwhile question (and I guess we should think a bit about that), it can actually be a way of justifying whatever we want, since there aren’t really any “rules” about this. As Paul says, “All things are lawful, but not all things are expedient.” It’s so tempting to think that since our relationship with God is not about rules, we can do whatever we want to–but if we are really trying to come closer to God, we shouldn’t just think about whether something is “lawful” but whether it actually helps us maintain our purity. It’s so easy for us to deceive ourselves by twisting the liberty we have in Christ, and forgetting that this liberty is not a license for impurity. Let’s pray that God opens our eyes to our real motives.

      • I saw a quote once that reminds me of this post. This is paraphrased, but basically it said, “Just because you have the ability to do something stupid doesn’t mean you should.” I thought was relevant to this post. We have the ability to do so much, but we sometimes have to use self-control and good judgement.

        • Yes, exactly. I guess also that it’s largely about not sinning against our conscience, because that in itself can bring up a barrier between us and God. (And of course we need to be careful that if we feel “at peace” about something, it is genuine, rather than a way of justifying to ourselves what we know will mar our purity.)

      • Thanks for your input! And I agree wholeheartedly (with what you said about how it’s wrong to twist the liberty we have in Christ) but I think we also need to be careful not to be legalistic, not to say that you were suggesting legalism by any means.
        Its not necessarily about drawing a line and asking ourselves constantly “How far is too far?”
        We should walk a path of purity and not worry so much on drawing a line and getting caught up in legalism. Asking ourselves “Would He be proud of me now? Am I glorifying and pleasing Him?”

        • Thanks, Kate. I totally agree. Legalism is such a sad thing since it misrepresents the character of God and portrays purity as something negative (“don’t do this, don’t do that”). This might be why some teens in Christian families reject the idea of purity because they think of it as deprivation rather than freedom.

  • I agree about being “brothers in Christ”. I have many friends through 4H of both genders. (btw if any of this sounds wrong tell me) I’ll hug them- both boys and girls- but they have to be like family to me (boys really have to be like family). I’ll tell them I love them because I do, but I try to make sure they know it’s brotherly love. As far as being in a relationship though, (which I am not experienced in) I think it depends on how deep and how serious this relationship is. I think first of all you have to love them as a friend before anything else (so by my standards you are probably already hugging) but keep it at that until at least a year of a relationship. Maybe at about 6 months it wouldn’t be too crazy for boys to give a peck on the cheek, but as I said, it depends on how deep and serious it is.

  • Just wanted to make sure it is clear to you what I believe…Jesus is the one who makes us pure. We can’t DO anything to work to achieve purity (He does that by creating a clean heart–Psalm 51:10), but we can take steps towards protecting it. It is our job to keep a watch over our heart, thoughts, or what we do or say. It must bring glory to the Lord.Pro 4:23Watch over your heart with all diligence,
    For from it flow the springs of life.We have to present our bodies as a living sacrifice before God. (Romans 12:1)

    • I’m not doubting your desire and commitment to
      Jesus (hope you didn’t think that)

      just wanted to show that giving our bodies as a
      living sacrifice is not singly focused on one aspect, but a whole realm of
      things that fit together

      1Ti 4:12 … in word, …in conversation,…. in charity, …in spirit,
      …in faith,… in purity.

      & I think the order written is important

      in Word first…

      What we say leads to our conversation…. leads
      to what we do…. leads to how that affects (or is demonstrated) in our
      character…. shows who we trust and is manifested in our action.

      Even what we eat fits into this keeping our
      bodies “pure”

      ( which is probably nearly impossible with the
      stuff they call food today ;P )
      “Not that which
      goes into the mouth defiles a man; but that which comes out of the mouth, this
      defiles a man.”
      Matthew 15:11 (& repeated
      in Mark 7:15)

      Yes Purity is important but for me it is
      a result (fruit) not a goal

      Great discussing with you , Let no man
      despise thy youth- we are an example as we keep Jesus as our

  • I think not awkard hugs are fine. The slow creepy lame movie type hugs are really not my favorite :). And if your dating hiding hands arm over shoulder stuff I think is cool but in don’t really know. O and please don’t hold my hand for a random joke of if you want my attention… That’s just awkard πŸ™‚

  • I think it really is a mixture of personal conviction, and actual science. When people kiss, it forms a chemical bond between them. When they break up, that bond is broken, aka heartbreak. I’ve never really read anything saying that if you hug someone you are chemically bonded to them, but it does create a mental bond. So be careful; think of everything you give to your girlfriend/boyfriend as something you can never give to your future spouse. Does that change how much physical contact you would have with your girlfriend/boyfriend?

  • It does get frustrating when you have a certain opinion about something and nobody seems to agree with you. I get that. πŸ™‚

    Doesn’t it seem like most people on here agree though? Looks like the general consensus is that it’s a matter of personal conviction but that kissing probably isn’t a great idea before marriage or at least engagement.

    I’m glad it got published too–and I’m glad it’s helping you. πŸ™‚

  • I’ve already said something about this but I came up with something new. If you read my last post, you saw how I hug friends of both genders if I feel they are family to me (boys must really be like family). And also what @disqus_aeGm5xMIfo:disqus said about us being “brothers in Christ”. Well, they are your girlfriend and your boyfriend. You’re brothers and sisters in Christ first, friends second, and then in a relationship.

  • Hmm…I don’t think I’ve ever had to give any serious thought to this…not that it isn’t an important subject, but my family moves around so much we’re hardly in one place for more than a few days, so I haven’t had to face the guy/girl relationship issues. In the beginning though, my parents laid down the rules for us on this subject. Any of you out there watch the Duggars? Our beliefs on courtship are basically the same as theirs, though maybe not quite as extreme. I mean, if someone’s praying and everyone is holding hands and you happen to find yourself standing next to someone of the opposite gender, it isn’t wrong to hold their hand during a prayer. I mean, your mind should be on God when you’re praying anyway, so if you’re thinking about anything else, your mind’s in the wrong place. And I don’t believe hugging is inappropriate either, depending on the situation. In some cases it would be considered rude if you hugged everyone in the room except for one person because it was a guy or girl who you weren’t related to. =) Plus, sometimes hugs can’t be avoided in my line of work…Anyway, that was probably a reiteration of a lot of what has already been said, but really, can you blame me for not reading all of 413 comments? =p

    • I love the Duggars! Did you watch the episode of Jessa’s wedding yet?
      Haven’t seen you here in a while, good to have you back! πŸ™‚ And good answer.

      • Hey, thanks. =) It’s good to be back. We’ve been travelling a lot and practicing for a new CD project. We hit the studio tomorrow. As a matter of fact, I did see that episode. It came on right before this really cool special about this family of thirteen who live on a bus and sing! Oh, wait, that’s my family…lol. =p

  • I agree that the brothers-in-Christ mentality is very helpful. That said, though, there are some things I’d do with my biological brother that I wouldn’t do with my guy friends. I lean against my real brother, stand close to him when I’m cold, poke him when he’s being silly, etc. I wouldn’t do any of those things with a guy friend.