SETH WRITES: Many people feel differently on this topic, and I would like to know what all you Rebs have to say! Our youth group discussed this question recently and some very interesting and good conversation stemmed out of it!
Some specific topics that are involved in politics relate to voting, holding office positions, war, etc.
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YA! FIRST COMMENT! OK, real stuff is up next.
I know, right? It’s such an accomplishment!
I think that we should take advantage of our privilege to vote for laws and our leaders. We have the ability to stand together and vote against un-Biblical laws or vote for Biblical ones. In the Bible, God uses leaders for His purposes (if you need a hint, the well-known king’s name rhymes with “Lavid” 😉 ).But I don’t think politics should be a common topic when you’re “fellowshipping” with other believers – it can be touchy and it not worth the possibility of breaking unity. All in all, we need to be careful to not idolize presidents (or candidates), thinking they’re the next Jesus and will save our country. It’s inevitable that the world will spiral down in terms or morality. World peace will not happen. Don’t be like the people who idolized King Saul (we all know what happened….).
Oh ha ha! When I was reading your comment I read Lavid with a short a and I was like What well known king rhymes with L-a-vid? It clicked….
I agree – it’s true that idolizing politics can lead to breaking up unity. I never really thought of it that way.
I am glad you mentioned the importance of voting – here is a sad statistic: only 50 % of Christians are qualified to vote and 50% of THOSE Christians actually DO vote. I believe that with the ways the world is going, we also desperately need Christian lawyers.
Freedom of speech is being snatched out of the hands of Christians around the country – we risk lawsuits whenever we speak the truth about marriage. The principles our country was founded on are now only given to the “minorities.” This is why we need Christians involved in politics. Don’t get me wrong – we should treat all people with love and respect – but “all people” includes Christians.
Sorry about the babbling – great answer!
Good comment Emma! I think believers should take advantage to vote and stand together to vote against stuff that is un-biblical. And we should keep fairly up to date with what’s happening in our government. We should also make sure though, that we treat our leaders respectfully and be respectful to other people’s political views, since topics like these can sometimes cause tension we should be careful about when and what we say.
I’ll bet this is Seth Yoder… am I right?
I haven’t read everyone’s comments yet, so if I’m plagiarizing know that I’m not really plagiarizing!
I think that Christians should be as involved as they want to be. We will never fix peoples’ spiritual problems with laws, which I think sometimes people try to do. But we aren’t supposed to just sit in our little communities and not get involved.
So for Jimmy, he may be totally into politics, he may serve ten terms as senator and get a lot of good laws put into place, while John couldn’t care less about politics and he doesn’t bother to vote because he doesn’t know what’s happening and he doesn’t care. From what I’ve seen, the Bible doesn’t seem to address this, which would mean it’s up to the individual believer. 🙂
Now to look through the comments and see what I missed… 😉
Yup that was me. 😏
I guessed right!
I think it is actually a good thing for Chrisisns to be involved in politics. It 1) Gives us the opportunity to voice and stand up for our opinions that may be culturally unpopular, and 2) I strongly believe that God wants us to use the gifts we’re given to reflect his image and glory. Who’s to say that Christians can’t can’t be involved in politics. I think it gives us so many opportunities to show God’s love while standing up for what we believe.
I think we should follow our founding fathers’ examples when it comes to being involved in politics.
Politics are really important. Like MimeforJesus said, we can’t fix people’s spiritual problems with laws, but we can protect the rights of Christians and vulnerable people like children. Laws are not there to change people’s attitudes but to ensure that their actions do not harm others. Our leaders can protect the vulnerable by banning abortion, not legalizing same-gender “marriage” (for want of a better term) or euthanasia, and by fighting ISIS.
If you’re Australian or need Christian arguments for political issues, have a look at the Australian Christian Lobby website (http://www.acl.org.au/) because they have excellent information and also provide petitions and things like that to pressure politicians.
I just looked it up for the Americans, and there is an American Christian Lobby (http://www.americancla.org/acla_home_page.html) but I don’t know anything about it.
For teens who aren’t able to be politicians yet, or adults who have a different career, the lobbies are a great way to get involved.
Politics is a pretty crazy deal but at the same time God is moving through political leaders and deals. For example, take the recent legalization of homosexual marriage in every state that the US gov. just authorized. Homosexuality completely falls under what the Bible declares as sexual immorality, which is something that a political descision just legalized!!! As Christians, are we not called to stand up against sin, to shine through a world of dark lies and to expose the snares Satan has set to capture non-believers? God has set up a calling for Christians to take a stand in every field because everyone is a sinner and everyone should be able to at least hear the truth of God! How will they be able to hear it if we are too afraid to raise our voices, to speak against the evil one? How can we stand to let sin rule us without speaking out? Sin does not rule us, God is the King of all kings and when He lives in our hearts He wants us to be courageous and to follow His will for us so when asked whether Christians should be involved in politics, I give it a double thumbs-up if God is calling you to it! He will show you how involved you should be and believe me, it wouldn’t hurt to keep your ears open to what’s going on because in Jesus’s parable of the virgins and the wedding feast, He tells us to be prepared for His coming and by the signs described in Revelations, we can even begin to tell what Satan’s doing as he is beginning to stir the nations against Israel (Revelations 16:12-16). I would suggest the 700 Club which is a cool Christian news cast on political events occurring around the world. Sometimes they air news that isn’t even discussed on today’s regular news, such as updates on terrorist activities or even Christian views on political deals such as with Obama and Iran.
Hope that helped and God bless you!
One thing I think we need to be careful of: in helping with politics, are we doing so to glorify God, or make things better for us Christians? We think we’re entitled to freedom of speech and freedom of religion, our Bill of Rights, etc.. That’s not even Biblical! Jesus never promised us political freedom. In fact, he said just the opposite would happen. Look at the countries oversees. No religious freedom there – and yet, there are many thriving Christian communities! Often we say, “you don’t agree with going to war, speaking out, or helping in any way politically, but look at what those Christians before us have done so that we may have freedom!” I’m thankful for that, but Biblically, we have no entitlement to freedom from the government. On the other hand, outright sin (abortion, homosexuality, etc.) should be spoken out against. So should Christians be speaking out for political freedoms?
However involved you wanna be! 🙂 The Bible never limits it, so if you want to run for office, go for it. If you wanna vote, go for it! You can be as involved or uninvolved as you want!
Just so long as it doesn’t come before God. I do believe, though, that war is off limits for Christians.
True, I assumed it was a given that we could allow nothing to come before God. While I disagree about war being off limits for Christians, I really don’t want to argue it at the moment and it isn’t exactly the question at hand! 🙂
Actually I did mention war in the DQ explanation. 🙂 I’d love to talk about it but if not that’s fine. 🙂
Whoops, my mistake! I apologize! I completely missed that. Well, sure, we can give it a shot. This isn’t a topic I’ve thought about much, but we’ll give it a shot!
So, I guess I would argue that if David could be a man after God’s own heart after killing so many, and verses such as “He who has no sword, let him sell his cloak, and by one” influence me toward believing that there are cases where violence is Biblically permitted, especially since we are called to be the “providers” for our family as men, which would, in my mind, include physical protection. Thoughts?
I don’t believe Jesus was actually talking about buying a literal sword. I think He’s referring to the Bible. I could be wrong, though. Why is it that we Americans always seem to decide that, in the most desperate situations, the final deciding factor is violence. What if all Americans literally believed that God’s love is more powerful than a gun or a fist. What if we resorted to love in the most desperate situations like one would a gun. As soon as we start fighting, we take matters into our own hands, and God, in a sense, becomes irrelevant. Acting out in love may not always give us the outcome of stopping the “bad guy,” but I think using God’s love in fight or flight situations is much more powerful than we’d like to believe! When Peter cut of the man’s ear during Jesus’ arrest, Jesus told him to put the sword away.
Just out of curiosity, do you believe that by turning to the power of love first, there could be no war at all on earth?
If every single person chose love first, then yes, I believe war would be non existent; but that would be a perfect world, and we are not promised a perfect world until Jesus comes again.
OK, I get what you’re saying there.
Also, how do you deal with all the times God commanded His people into battle, even giving instructions to spare no man, woman, or child? Examples: 1 Samuel 15(:3), Deut. 20:1(-20) (instructions to not fear when going out to battle-the whole chapter is about God’s instructions in warfare),
Numbers 21:3, etc. (there’s obviously many more).
Those wars were before Jesus came to earth to bring salvation. When Jesus came to earth, that changed. These are my thoughts: Before Jesus came to earth, there wasn’t a way (or the way was much harder) to get to heaven. When he came to earth, died, and rose again, he became the ultimate sacrifice, and our kingdom became a heavenly kingdom. Hence no more earthly wars. “If my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight.”
What do you mean when you say “Before Jesus came to earth, there wasn’t a way (or the way was much harder) to get to heaven”? Are you saying they were saved by the works of the law?
Well, Seth, my view on the subject lines up with those of the Covanental Presbyterians of Scotland during the “Killing Times” who, while many died martyrs, stood and fought several times to defend their families.
As to your explanation of Lk. 22:36, I think that’s a faulty explanation for two reasons. 1.) The Bible wasn’t finished yet, so telling the masses to by a book was not applicable and would have simply confused everyone. 2.) The disciples actually pull out two swords when Jesus says this and He tells them that is enough. Now, since the OT was the only part of the Bible written at this time, and they were incredibly expensive (so expensive that only a synagogue would have them), pulling out two OT scrolls would have been impossible. They couldn’t have afforded them, and secondly, there’s no way they could have simply carried them around in their robes. A scroll is simply to big and heavy!
I agree with you that violence is seen too often as our first alternative, which has detrimental effects all over the world. But I also believe that there is a time for evil to be violently stopped, both to protect the victim and to prevent the one doing the attacking from sinning further.
Yeah I wasn’t sure about my explanation, so I’m sure it’s probably way off, but I do remember hearing those verses explained on a Christian radio station, and it made a lot of sense, and actually harmonized with the message of peace. I wish I could remember…
God does want us to love our enemies and pray for them but at the same time I agree with both Taylor and Emma. Love is the key to peace BUT God said that there would never be true peace again ’till the return of Jesus Christ and the renewing of the world. When Jesus comes, all things shall made perfect: there will be no more war, no more pain, and no more sin! Until then all these things will be present and while I agree we should try to live in God’s ways I believe there is a clear line between war inspired by God and war inspired by Satan. If Christians are being killed in India or Iran or even North Korea for going to war on sin’s prescence and Satan’s hold on those people’s lives then we should show Satan that we are not about to just sit back and say “I don’t do war but I love you guys a lot so let’s all try to get along” because if we do that then we are allowing people to sin and while we may try to use words to help the situation, sometimes God calls us to action. In 1 John it is said that we should not just love our neighbors with just words but with actions as well and sometimes that means defending the defenseless in Sudan, which will require war against the group that has been terrorizing these refugees for so long. We can pray for these rebelious groups and we should love them but at the same time we need to stand up for those who cannot defend themselves as God calls us to. Words are powerful but sometimes war is necessary as a last result when words are no longer heard over the gunfire of a terrorist and God’s voice is telling your heart to defend the women and children caught in the middle of a massacre.
Yes I definitely see what you mean. But I would be hesitant to say that, by not fighting, we are “allowing” them to sin. Is it our job to keep them from sinning? That’s their personal choice. God judges. I think we don’t give the power of love enough credit, and we don’t try it enough. Love is extremely powerful! When I say love, I don’t necessarily mean standing by and doing nothing. We are called to help the widows, fatherless, the poor etc. What if, instead of fighting, we gave ourselves up instead of the intended victims. Just something to think about.
Hey, Seth! I agree that that’s an awesome alternative, one that I’ve heard practiced by one of my taekwondo coaches when he was a special forces sergeant. Rather than fight a man he saw hitting a woman, he rather asked the man to hit him instead.
But, at the end of the day, there are times that the guy isn’t going to do that or when the situation is too far advanced or too loud for words.
Oohh, good reaction…
By the way, I wanted to add something. It is possible to use violence in love. That’s a hard concept to explain but I’m going to try. I’m a first degree black belt in taekwondo. If I saw a man assaulting a woman, I would drag him off of her and do what was necessary to protect the woman, as I think most of us on here would. Why? To protect the woman. That’s my act of love for her, right? How loving is it to stand by and let that happen!
Who ever said you have to stand by and let it happen if violence wouldn’t be an alternative? There are other ways to get the man away from the woman instead of violence. My point is, it seems we all too often think “violence or nothing.” What would Jesus do? I find it hard to believe that Jesus would use violence on the man in a situation like that, but I also believe He wouldn’t stand and do nothing. Jesus’ love is to be extended to everybody, even the wicked and cruel.
Hey, Seth! I apologize completely for insinuating that you would stand by and do nothing! I certainly don’t think you would! I understand that’s what it sounded like I was saying, and that was my own faulty communication. I’m sorry!
Out of curiosity though, what are some of the alternative ideas you have in mind? This may be the violent side you’re talking about that makes that the first alternative that jumps into my mind, but less argumentatively, more curiously, what are some of the ones you are thinking of?
Again, I’m sorry for insinuating that! That was totally not my intention!
No no that’s not how I took it at all! 🙂 One option could be just walk up and start talking to the guy, or take the lady by the hand and lead her away, or (this next one is from a book I’m reading) act like you know the lady and start talking all friendly and pretend the guy isn’t even there. Lol sounds a little funny. 😊
🙂 Ha, ha, I laughed when I read that. That would be hilarious! “Oh, hey, how you doing?” (as if it’s not obvious how her day’s going… 🙂
Can you come to my church, please? This is just about exactly what I wanted to say in Sunday School a couple months ago…
Wait, what does your church believe?
My church is big on nonresistance. Even, I think, like you were saying — if you see a man assaulting a woman, you might ask him to stop but you can’t forcibly remove him. (my family just kept our mouths shut that time.)
Okay, wow. Yeah, my church has to be the polar opposite of that. We have guys who carry firearms at church (we had a drive by shooting once). Has no one pointed out showing love to the woman? Are y’all the only one that feels that way?
Woww… I seriously want to visit.
Somehow it’s like they (my church, not necessarily all churches like this) think that if, as a man, you suppress your impulse to protect the woman, it’s better? Or maybe only if you suppress your impulse to protect *your* family/wife, and you could protect a stranger. Idk. One of the “poster child” families in my church is this family from history who was attacked by Indians, and the women and children were killed but the men didn’t fight back.
Yeah, I’ve heard that story too. I can understand holding to that theologically, but I just do not believe that it is what the Bible teaches.
Yes, it sure is something. :/
Whut??? That’s weird….
Yeah… My church sure is something.
I’m with Faith on the 700 Club, it’s a great source for news, my family is pretty involved with them and I’d recommend you’d check them out if you ever want to stay updated with politics or any kind of world news, you can go to their website at cbn.com or even subscribe to get daily news updates from your email, worth checking out.
*randomness, excuse my off-topicness* You’re from Texas?!?!!
So Faith, Anonymous and defyingdepravity are from Texas. That makes four of us =v)
Five including me!
(Sorry, I complete just jumped into this conversations, but, hey, I want to jump on the Texan bandwagon) 🙂
All Texans are welcome to jump into a conversation concerning Texas!!
Six with me!
Sorry to veer off topic but whay should war be off the table for Christians? Did not God lead the Jews through wars? He helped David against Goliath and Joshua against Jericho so if war is what God is leading us to, then should we not listen to His calling? If a snake strikes your heel then shouldn’t you crush its head so that it cannot go after others and continue to kill? And should we not also be actively involved in spiritual warfare? If we do not allow God to move through us and fight against sin then how are we trying to get away from the temptations that try to catch our attention every second of our lives here on earth? I can understand that war with a motivation for conquest and the thrill of gore and the blood of one’s enemies is wrong but I don’t believe we should completely close ourselves off to the fact that God is calling us to fight a war against the darkness of this world. Not terrorist style but rather in an effort to stop terrorists and save the people who are being persecuted, Christian or not. There are hundreds if not thousands of Muslims who are being killed alongside Christians in the Middle East simply because they will not join ISIS. These people are dying without knowing God; shouldn’t we try to fight for them so that they can have the chance to come to Him? Just some food for thought; if anyone has any opinions on the subject I’d be happy to discuss. (If I am misusing this discussion question as a way to post my own then please call me out on it, I am sorry in advance if I am and I would be more than happy to submit it for its own discussion).
This hits the nail on the head – God totally used war to fulfill His purposes. In fact, the Old Testament would make a pretty bloody movie. 😛 He is sovereign in war. You said my thoughts for me perfectly.
And no, it’s not off topic – war was mentioned in the Q 🙂
Thanks but God is the one who gives us the thoughts and words in order for Him to shine His light through us. It is amazing how God is truly sovereign over everything, even the things that seem to have no purpose. He has had a plan for everything since the beginning and even war has a part in the course He has planned out. If anyone here has read “The Hiding Place” by Corry Ten Boom, one of God’s purposes for the seemingly useless and harmful creatures called fleas is revealed and saves the main character and her Christian friends from being discovered while they are worshiping God in a concentration camp throughout their time in the camp. God has a plan for everything, from the smallest flea to the biggest war and as Christians we can trust in our Father to help us follow His ways so that we can be apart of His plan. As many have probably said before, we all have a place in God’s plan for the world but it is our choice whether we want to follow Him and be apart of the plan or follow Satan and be apart of the kingdom of darkness.
(Sorry if I keep writing mini-lectures, I guess God has put a lot in my heart and now that He’s finally shown me a place to share it I feel very excited and eager to follow Him!)
I love the story of Corrie Ten Boom! I watched an older movie (maybe 70’s or 80’s?) that’s a very accurate picture of her story (it’s long). It was free on youtube.
Yes you do make good points. We must be extremely careful that we fight for the right things, though. For we battle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. I don’t think the “rulers of the darkness of this world” is referring to any human beings…
I totally agree with you that our struggles are spiritual but I have one very intriguing question for you: if the evil one is fighting for our soul then could he not use what he possesses to attack us? In the Bible and even today, demonic forces attempt to influence both the lives of believers and unbelievers through controlling the actions of unbelievers who have allowed sin (thus Satan) to rule their lives. Some fortune tellers, Satanists, and yes, even terrorist leaders, are listening to these demonic forces and as a result they try to attack us both spiritually and physically. These demonic forces don’t only attack just these people but they go after everyone in the world so as to draw them away from God. Hitler was persuaded by these forces to wage war and attempt to destroy all those he deemed impure for his “perfect” world-wide nation. Thousands of people were being killed for no reason other than their DNA, their disabilities or their opinions and such things are still happening today in Syria and Africa with war between tribes all because these demonic forces have come and pressed non-believers to war against God’s followers. If no one had stood up to Hitler and fought back against his senseless, demonic driven tirade to create a world without the diversity God has created, then what purpose would that serve? How would getting rid of most of the world’s population (many of whom don’t know Christ and therefore would never have had the chance to get to know Him) and destroying God’s people entirely help glorify God? The thing is, God had a plan for everything, even when my grandmother’s parents were driven out of Latvia by the Soviet Union when so much pain and sin reigned over the Soviet-ruled regions of Europe. He allowed these wars to be started for a reason, possibly to help rebuild His people’s nation. He allowed families to be persecuted, He called for countries to defend the innocent, the old, the weak, the defenseless.
But, I want to hear what you think. Why do you think that if the US had stayed out of these wars, everything would be fine? What could have happened differently if the US had stayed out of it?
I’m sorry I don’t know why I said BOTH wars. I was mixed up. I was just referring to WWII. The attack on Pearl Harbor is when the U.S. entered the war. There are several signs that the attack was provoked to provide an excuse to enter the war. The U.S. was cutting off Japan’s oil supply, there were important messages relating to the attack that were not relayed to Pearl Harbor, and, if I remember correctly, only 3 days after the attack, the U.S. entered the war. Then they dropped 2 atomic bombs on the Japanese cities, when Japan wasn’t really that much of a threat. Hitler had already basically wasted his army trying to invade Russia. There was no need for America to jump in the war.You mentioned that if nobody stood up against Hitler, things would have gone terribly. That is definitely true, however, “standing up” against someone doesn’t have to mean violence. There are ways to stand up against evil in a peaceful manner. I’m not saying that Hitler would’ve listened, but love is a powerful thing. More powerful than we think.
Hey, Seth, as somebody who has studied history a ton, I have to disagree. We were cutting off their oil supply because of an unprovoked attack by their army on China, then our ally, and purposefully causing Pearl Harbor to be attacked would have been insanely suicidal. If an excuse was all we were looking for, there were much easier ways to do that (for example, what Hitler did in Poland) than to incite an attack on your biggest naval base and the loss of 10000 men. That’s pretty drastic for an excuse.
We declared war the next day, Dec. 8. But keep in mind that when the HQ of your Pacific fleet is destroyed, it kinda tends to accelerate the declaration of war process. That’s no uncommon. Germany’s congress declared war on Poland the day after the border incident Hitler used to incite the war, so the speed with which we declared war shouldn’t be too surprising. And Hitler certainly was not exhausted in 1941! He was preparing Operation Sea Lion of Calais for an invasion of England! His army wasn’t too exhausted!
Anyhow, sorry, I didn’t mean to reignite a debate we both let drop. Just as a passionate lover of history, it was too hard to stand by for a discussion on it and miss out! 🙂
Yeah Im not real big on history so I don’t have all the facts. 🙂 Thanks for clarifying!
One thing, though. Why did the U.S. Side with Russia to stop Hitler? Stalin killed many more people than Hitler did. I realize that Hitler was the imminent threat at the moment, and Stalin had a powerful army, but Stalin was just as wicked as Hitler was.
Well, purely on paper, we attacked Germany because they declared war on us first. But outside paper, I think our alliance with Russia was shere stupidity. It was based on the idea that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, but that was certainly not the case with a guy like Stalin.
I think everything said so far is very deep and I can see that there are convictions within each speaker’s heart. Taylor, I totally agree with you on WWII. It is one of the examples where the US was not just fighting Hitler but the evil that was controlling him and yes, there will always be another evil ’till the endtimes are over but this does not mean we should simply give up and hand ourselves over to Satan. But, there are several ways in which we can fight back, which is what we’re all discussing here. Speaking, using war, making deals and peacetreaties and even showing our enemies that we love them through various actions. But Seth, my question for you is what if speaking and deals and peacetreaties don’t work? What should happen then? Some of the soldiers in the German army didn’t want to fight the US or any nation, for that matter but the German govnment forced them to by threatening to send the soldiers’ families into concentration camps if they did not fight. Now, I know that God’s love is unstoppable and indeed some of the recovering soldiers did find Him after the war and perhaps Hitler could have too if he were still alive but with the speed at which Hitler was killing people and the torture he was putting them through, something had to have been done or by the time he found God’s love, thousands of people could have died. He was leading, in some senses, the new “Mongols” of the world except he wanted perfection and we all know that perfection only comes from God. What Hitler did was wrong, he took the offensive position and started a war to gain power. But, in my opinion, the US followed God’s calling when it defended itself and other nations. To defend oneself from a leader who is driven by evil and sin and who will not listen to reason and love is not wrong. It is the evils of sin that we fight against, that we defend ourselves against. If evil did not start the war, then we would not have a war but if the righteousness of God does not fight back, first through words then through war (while maintaining a love for one’s enemies all the while with the hope that they might repent and surrender themselves to God), then God will create another way, whether that is to force us to fight (WWII) or to encourage another nation to fight. What happened in World War II is sealed within the past, it was in God’s plan from the beginning of time and whatever wars that may arise are in His plan as well. They all play a purpose though. Now, I’m not saying we should charge into whatever war pops up next but I am saying that sometimes God intends for us to go to war after giving our enemies every alternative not to. War is a last resort of defense and so long as it is God’s will, I believe it is right in His eyes.
Very well said. My question for you is, do we reeaally believe God’s love is unstoppable? We say it is, but when we don’t see the results we think we should see, we resort to some earthly means (i.e. Violence). What if people used God’s love like they did guns? Of course, if everyone did, the world would be next to perfect. And that’s obviously not gonna happen until Jesus returns. Good conversation! 🙂
I can see your interpretation of the phrase “unstoppable love” but I was thinking in terms where the enemy can never stop God from loving us even through all our sin but I do see your point! It is very unique and exciting to be able to compile all the opinions of so many people on one topic and the interpretation they have taken from scriptures. It has been a great conversation!
May God bless you all!
Concerning your first question: Yes Satan definitely can use physical things or people against us, but once again, it stems back to a spiritual enemy, and God’s love is more powerful than Satan will ever be. When we war and and fight, we are only ridding ourselves of fleshly enemies; if we would resort to war and violence to get rid of people like Hitler and ISIS, we are not attacking the root of the problem. Satan will just find something or someone else to use, and the cycle repeats. That’s why I believe our battle belongs in the spiritual realm, not the physical.
Okay, wait a minute — Satan uses the physical realm, so why are Christians not permitted to fight back there?? I understand that most of this stuff stems from spiritual things, but God gave us a physical world for a reason, and we are called to protect those in it until He comes again. God is not limited between realms, and so neither should Christians be limiting His love (from our example here on Earth) between realms. Just thought I should bring up that side of it, but honestly I’m not trying to start a debate. Our church always says, “in essentials, unity; in nonessentials, charity” 🙂
Your sister in Christ, Leah
I would say Christians shouldn’t fight in the physical realm because our kingdom is not of this world. Were we ever specifically called in His word to protect those in the physical world? Isn’t it God’s job to protect us? I understand we must look out for each other, though. Anyway, I gotta catch some Z’s. 😊😴
Hi again Seth! 🙂
This website (http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/is-it-biblical-to-go-to-war/) kind of outlines what I’m thinking of this debate… What do you think? I guess I’m kind of confused about exactly what you believe. I’m not trying to start an argument I just think discussions like this are really good/insightful to have when both parties are respectful and happy to discuss things. 🙂
That link you sent didn’t work for some reason. I guess I believe that war is something Christians should stay away from, but in the area of defending others on a more personal level, I’m not exactly sure what I believe. Sometimes I favor one side, and then the other. Obviously, though, I do believe that revenge is wrong, or fighting to give somebody what they “deserve.” Killing (or potentially killing) another living soul is a serious matter, as I’m quite sure you know. Although it is possible to fight and use violence without killing someone. Now I’m just thinking out loud. 😏
Interesting. So, I’m not going to argue this point, but I am interested in hearing a new viewpoint. I love studying history (particularly WW2), so in your opinion, how could we have stayed out of WW2, considering we had over 10000 men die in an unprovoked attack on US soil by a foreign army? Honestly, I’m not trying to debate again, I’m just interested. What is your reason for believing this?
Whoops, just saw your comment below. I’ll answer that one then…
Hey defyingdepravity! YES I’m from Texas, I live outside of Austin and I love it, best place ever right?!:)
I’m not like some crazy cowgirl though, ha ha, but I am proud of my state (and you gotta love the Spurs!)
Spurs are cool but I root for the Houston Rockets! : D Of course, I don’t know much about sports, I just root for the home team.
A lot of good stuff has already been said, so I’ll just add this:
As Christians, I don’t think we should be too closely involved in a political party. If we make a part of our identity either Republican or Democrat, we risk alienating others, making our witness less effective to unbelievers.
This isn’t to say we shouldn’t join a political party at all if we go into politics. Unfortunately, that isn’t realistic, given the two party system we have in the U.S. There’s a politician in our town that represents us in the state Senate, and he’s a Christian. (My family knows him.) But if you looked at his website or campaign signs, you’d never know he was a Republican. I think, for Christian politicians (of any party), that is exactly how you should represent yourself.
This depends on your definition of politics…
If by politics you mean the people that slam other political groups or manipulate people using lies, then no…
However, if by politics you mean positions of authority such as a congressmen or president, I would see no problem with that, as long as it was done respectfully and in no way caused you to violate God’s commands.
In a way, I see Alex and Brett as sort of involved in politics, and I think, what they are doing is fantastic.
Awesome to see all you peeps from Texas! You’ve said some great stuff Faith (and as for the Rockets, I’m unfortunately not a fan and if you’re in Texas, the Spurs is your home team no matter where you are, I’m the prime example seeing as I’m not even from San Antonio, lol) Sorry to keep going off topic guys.:)
Sorry, this is sooooooo off topic, but what is Revive?? Everybody is talking about it and have no idea what it is. Could someone clarify? 😳
Revive is a website that Sam S. started to share prayer requests. It also serves as a great place to ask tough questions, share praises, and have off-topic conversations (which was out of hand here on the Reb before Revive started – a courtesy to Brett Harris!). It’s *really* awesome, you should check it out! revivingtheredeemed.org
Yeah, exactly what @defyingdepravity:disqus said. =) We’d love to have you on there!
Thanks!! I’ll check it out!
Saw you on there, glad you made it! =)
Whoops, I never saw this! And I agree with you too, that there are better ways (much better ways to handle it) than to break the guy’s arm and knock him senseless! Thanks for discussing this with me! I learn every time!
Hmmm….I’d have to disagree majorly with you here. Salvation was always gained ONLY by faith through the work of Christ. The OT laws, rituals, and sacrifices were to set them apart, not to earn their salvation. That would be no different than thinking you have to earn your salvation by doing good works. It’s just as it is said in Genesis 15:5-6 “And He took him [Abraham] outside and said, “Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be. Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.” and in Romans 4:1-5 “What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness”. The animal sacrifices were pointing towards the ultimate, saving sacrifice – Jesus Christ.
Um I saw someone said that Christians shouldnt be realy one or the other, I mean Republican or Democrat, but what about the Democrats support of abortion, and gay marriage? I think as believers we have to chose a side based on what God says is right and not on how our choice affects others. “You shall not kill”! We dont decide we are not going to be Christians by how it affects others! Doing what is right or standing up for something( in this case a political party) highlights what we believe is worth standing up for, worth debating for, and worth finding out the truth for yourself. It goes back to being salt and light. If we do not clarify what party we are for and against, how are we being light in politics? I believe this gives the world the false picture of us being “luke warm” or not caring at all, and giving the impression that we are fine with abortion and gay marriage! Personally that is not the impression I want to give the world of myself,or as the defining line of Christians in politcs . I think especially in politics, Christians need to rise up and declare what they believe, especially in this generation.
I do not mean to be rude , or force my opinion down your throats, I’m just saying what the Lord has placed on my heart.