Editor’s Note: Throughout the years, TheReb has published thousands of articles, each challenging and encouraging Rebelutionaries to do hard things and seek God. But among these posts, some have especially resonated with you, our readers. So over the next few weeks and months, we’re bringing back these classics, reposting our most popular and well-read articles every Thursday. May they encourage and remind you of God’s unchanging truth!
I sat in my room thinking, “I have believed there was a God for as long as I can remember, but why do I believe it?”
I had grown up in the church, going every Sunday and being highly involved in our youth group. I had known God existed and had read and studied the Bible for years. I committed my life to Christ at a young age and He had transformed my life and given me a purpose.
But as I sat there, I knew that if someone asked me to give them a reason for why I believed God existed I would, besides giving the typical Sunday school answer, have nothing to say.
Are You Prepared?
Don’t get me wrong, when I say I would have nothing to say, I do not mean I would not be able to present the gospel or how God had changed my life–but when confronted with the arguments that are presented by atheists today, I would be completely unprepared.
Today’s atheistic arguments are complicated theological, social, and scientific questions which require deep and specific answers.
The Bible says, “Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give a reason for the hope that you have.” (1 Peter 3:15)
I had hope, but no answer for why I had it.
I knew what I believed, but did not fully know why I believed it.
Failure to Prepare Can Lead to a Failed Faith
This is where my study began. As I researched, I stumbled across this statistic released by the Barna Group a few years ago, which says, “65% of high school students stop attending church after they graduate.”
And that is only a conservative figure!
So many Christians do not know why they believe what they believe.
This just goes to show, if we do not know why we believe, and if our foundation of faith is not solid now, it will be shaken later.If we do not know why we believe, and if our foundation of faith is not solid now, it will be shaken later. Click To Tweet
As we step onto our high school and college campuses, we should be the most prepared and be the firmest in our beliefs out of anyone there. Yet obviously, as the statistics show, this is not the case today.
Christians abandon their faith because they are not prepared to answer some of the simplest arguments against God that are presented by atheists today.
If you were faced with any of the following statements and questions, would you be able to answer them?
- “If God really existed, why would he allow all of the evil and suffering that exists in the world? (For example: 9/11)”
- “There is no proof for creationism, evolution has been proven and any attempt to hold on to that myth is foolishness and blind faith.”
- “The Bible is historically inaccurate and is full of fairytales.”
- “The life of Jesus Christ is undocumented and it is very likely that he was not even a real person, not to mention there is absolutely no proof for his resurrection from the dead.”
- “You really believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to God? How do you know that Christianity is the only religion that is right? You really think that the billions of Muslims and Buddhists in world are going to Hell just because they believe differently than you? How arrogant!”
- “Good and evil are illusions. Right and wrong are determined simply according to what is best for the survival of humanity and by avoiding the most possible suffering for the majority.”
The variation on these arguments are endless, and they might seem conclusion on their own. But when we really look, the evidences for God’s existence are overwhelming. We just have to know them.
Love God With Your Mind By Knowing Why
Jesus told us to, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” (Matthew 22:36-40) Yet so many times we ignore the command to love God with our mind.
We need to know what we believe and we need to know why we believe it. We must actively seek out the evidences for God.
Since that moment when I realized the gaping hole in my knowledge of God, I began to search out how God has revealed himself to his creation, and my faith has been strengthened.
We have no better opportunities in our lifetime to share the gospel than on our high school and college campuses, but we have got to be prepared.
God has called us do hard things, and the search for evidence is not easy, but it is definitely worth it.
Know what, but just as importantly, know why.
Yeah Luke. I quite agree with you. We are expected to grow in Knowledge of God and His word. As we grow closer to Him, he reveals Christ to us in ways that will beat any doubt from atheists, or other religions and help us live lives that will show the way.
I discovered that many people that do not believe have reasons [hurt, guilt, past disappointments etc], they have gaping holes in their hearts which only God can fill. But they reach for a front – the arguments and doubt are just defence mechanisms to deny the fact that they need God {Acts 17:26-17}.
A testimonial life often breaks through the ice people have formed and an encounter with Christ Himself. So we must also pray!
I totally agree with you! Most of the time people turn away from God is because of past experiences. It’s so true that only Christ can fill the hurt they feel.
Did you talk to atheists to come to this conclusion, or you are just assuming it? Atheists are happy people, they don’t have a hole in their heart, they don’t feel a need for God. Most of the people I know who are atheists did not turn away because of some past experience, they turned away because they thought critically about the issues and came to the conclusion that there is no God. I would actually argue the opposite. It was when people were unable to deal with the hard reality of death and were unable to explain natural phenomenon that they turned to (and created) a God to make things easier for them. Plus, it is rather insulting to tell an atheist that the reason they don’t believe must be because they had some tragic experience in the past. You are essentially asking an atheist “what happened to you? You are all messed up, what broke you?”
yes, i agree. I have always been shocked at the number of teens that leave church when the get older, one book i have read, called “already gone,” discusses this issue and anything that can be done about it. as for speaking to atheists i would suggest signing up for CMI’s (Creation Ministries International) daily e-mail newsletter. another interesting book is, “More than a Carpenter,” written by former atheist, Josh McDonnell. it proves Jesus’ existence from a scientific point of view and not only that but the fact that he still lives!
Those sound awesome. I’ll definitely have to check them out! Thanks for sharing!
some other books i thought were very helpful were the, Answers books (there’s three of them) by Answers In Genesis, written by multiple authors. they are very very good! but remember it’s answers to questions so if u have no questions you probably wouldn’t like the books.
a verse that came to me yesterday after reading this article was:
2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
by the way if you want to hear more of the word of truth check out my church’s website. it’s pretty awesome how it all came together.
2 Timothy 2:15 is such a great verse. It is totally in line with what the Lord has been showing me. I will have to read those Answer books, they sound great! Thank you so much for all of the resources. I always love getting more info so that I can be greater prepared for the future.
I’m glad that I was prepared to help. we should keep in touch why don’t you e-mail me? I’ve been trying to get a christian e-mail group together for prayer requests. oh yeah duh almost hit post without my e-mail here it is: [email protected] hope to hear from you soon
Definitely! I’ll send you my email address.
Grant, this might interest you. Ken Ham, the author of those Answers in Genesis books and founder of the Creation Museum, will be doing a debate with Bill Nye this month (February). I know I will watch it and I think you would find it interesting too.
Yes Sam, I’ve been looking forward to that debate. Although I don’t think either side will win, because they both are sure they are correct. It’ll probably be like the Obama vs Romney debate. I would like to say more but I’ll let you be Sam.
~Grant
Anyone who says they can prove Jesus’ existence with science doesn’t understand science. Scientists aren’t in the business of proof, they instead work with evidence. I would suggest you look up some articles on the nature of science or the scientific method. It appears to me that you don’t understand how science works.
Oh my word!! This fits so much with my life right now! I have been struggling with questions that keep coming up… specifically Why would God let bad things happen. I know God is trying to reach me and I love him with all my heart. But I can’t help asking questions. I don’t want to doubt him, but I do sometimes.Then I see this post and I realize that God will help me find the answers to my doubting and he still loves me just as much as before!
I’m so glad this article was helpful! God will definitely reveal himself as you seek him. If you want to get some answers to the questions I presented I have a website where I post articles and links that help to provide answers. The website is knowwhatyoubelievenow.blogspot.com . There is an article on there by Lee Strobel that helps to answer the question of why bad things happen. Hopefully this will help you in your search!
See, and that is a problem right there, I can imagine a better god than the one that actually exists. The god that I create in my head would not just stand by and watch while people die in concentration camps or of hunger. If I can create a more morally correct god than then the real God, then God is not perfect because I found in him some flaws. God stands by and watches suffering, good people don’t do that.
Hey Sam, I normally don’t get into debates on the internet as a general rule, but here are a couple of quotes that I thought would be helpful in regard to your statement. Dr. Rice Broocks says, “Evil is not evidence of God’s absence from the universe, but evidence of his absence from our lives.” In order for us to have a free will we have to have the option of doing evil. So evil is not God’s doing, but it is first and foremost our doing. The other is by C.S. Lewis when he says, “My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?” If God does not exist then there is not basis for morality in the first place. Many make the argument that morality has been groomed into us by social conditions, but then that would mean that we would have no right to stop or apprehend someone who abuses their children or murders. It would mean that morality is just according to the opinion of whoever holds the power, not coming from an overarching, higher standard that we all must abide by. But there are definite moral laws that transcend our opinions and social conditions that we see in the laws throughout the world that come from the just, perfect character of God.
So, the only reason that you don’t abuse kids or murder is because God says not to? I have morals and they didn’t come from the bible, and I would argue that most of your morals didn’t come from the bible either. You pick and choose what moral laws you want to follow from the bible and what ones you don’t want to follow. For example, do not murder, you follow that one. Stone a child who is disobedient continuously, you don’t follow that one. Morality isn’t just an opinion. What is right is generally what is best for people and society as a whole. Therefore, I don’t murder, not because the bible says not to, but because I know it is not in the best interests of anyone, it won’t help make the world a better place. I tell the truth, not because the bible says don’t lie, but because I know if I lie people will not trust me and making relationships will be hard. And I also don’t kill someone who is a homosexual, because I know that being a homosexual is just fine and I also understand something that god didn’t (I understand that homosexuality isn’t a choice).
Thank you so much for this! It helped my think about what I would say! Thanks!
You’re welcome! Glad you enjoyed it! Some great resources to help you answer the questions I presented are the books “God’s Not Dead” by Dr. Rice Broocks and “The Reason For God” by Timothy Keller.
This is so great! Thanks for sharing. This is something God has been teaching me for so long–just getting to know Him personally, and knowing WHY I believe what I believe. I can’t say “just because I always have’. God provides the answers, and it’s been so cool searching His Word for those answers.
That’s awesome! I’m so glad you liked the article.
This issue bothered me A LOT starting mid-september specifically wondering about whether there’s any truth in other religions and though I believe and know why now, sad to say, I’m still wrestling with a negative state of mind (pray for me) but I do hope the good Lord will free me from it soon
I will definitely be praying for you! One of the best answers that I have heard for that question is that every other religion is about man trying to be good enough to get to God. Christianity says that God came down to man, lived the life we were meant to live, and died the death we deserved. Every other religion focuses on what we must do, but Christianity focuses on what He did. That is the best SHORT answer I have heard. The book “Mere Christianity” by C.S. Lewis is a great resource on that subject as well. Here is a link to an article by a former Muslim named Nabeel Qureshi: http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Qureshi/testimony.htm This has a lot of great stuff in it about his Journey from Islam to Christianity. Hope this was helpful!
Thank You so much ! God bless and may God help us
But even Christians don’t agree on that. Some say you are saved by works, others by faith. In other words, some people who are Christians still believe that man has to try to be good enough to get to God. In the end, Christianity isn’t any different than other religions, but you can interpret it that way. But also, think about this answer. It only works after Jesus came down onto the Earth. If you lived 3,000 years ago as a Jew, what would be your reason for not believign in one of the other Gods? At that point, your religion would be vey similar to all the other religions. You WOULD be pleasing your God and trying to make him happy (hence all the animal sacrifices in the bible).
There is nothing wrong in pursuing other religions. I encourage you to do it and to do it without fear. Don’t be afraid of doubt and don’t put yourself into a negative state of mind simply because you doubt. Embrace it, truly examine what you believe and why you believe it. Look at things from multiple points of view (don’t just read books that support your view and were written by Christians. Read books by authors of other religions and of ahtiests, see what they beleive and let that lead your thoughts).
Thank you for your post! It was encouraging me to continue my search; to seek answers for the questions I, and others, have.
Thank you! I’m glad it was helpful!
Good word. God has anointed you and everything you do, Luke! Just like the blessings spoken in Duet. 28, God sees your obedience and He’s rewarding it. You have such a heart for Christ – keep trusting Him, dude. Even when the devil is hounding you and seemingly fighting against every single thing you try to do, don’t lose hope. I know for me, that after a while, it is very wearisome to keep striving for godliness when I’m being hit from every side by the enemy. But wait on the Lord and He WILL renew your strength! (Isaiah 40:31) Praying for you all, ~ Kaylee
Thanks Kaylee.
Thank you for this challenge, Luke. I will be researching some of these questions. What’s funny is, you’re not the only one that’s told me this. I just went through a study titled, “Why we believe the Bible”. Maybe God is preparing me for something in the future.
That’s awesome! Thank you for the feedback! I have a website that helps answer the questions I presented. It might help you with your research. 🙂 knowwhatyoubelievenow.blogspot.com
Haha. It seems so.
Be careful not to trust those who say that faith is more important than honesty or truth. Those of us on the other side of the debate, the non-believers, value truth and honesty over holding to a belief in spite of good reason not to. Go where the evidence leads, stick to what appears to be true, all else is self-deception.
“I saw a squirrel run through my back yard this morning.” i was probably the only person that saw that squirrel this morning. you might come up to me and say you don’t believe i saw that squirrel run through my backyard this morning. Does that make the fact that the squirrel ran through my yard any less true? no, it doesn’t. you can tell everybody that the squirrel never went through my yard this morning, and they can all believe ya. but that squirrel still went through my yard and I saw it.
since you prefer truth and honesty I’d like to know your definitions of them. without God there is no truth.
Squirrels are adorable!
I define truth as the characteristic of being true, or in concordance with reality. Not as an entity in itself (I always find statements like “God is truth” to be feel-good meaningless gibberish.)
Honesty I would define, in respect to this post, as being open to all conclusions and going where the evidence lies. This is the opposite of faith.
“…without God there is no truth” This doesn’t seem true at all.
Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
notice how you constantly rely on your own knowledge to determine what is and isn’t true to yourself ? “I define truth” “I always find” “I would define”
you see, you are forced to come up with your own truth, it’s artificial; merely a substitute for real truth that can only be found in God and His word.
now I understand that in the last days:
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
and
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
so I generally avoid useless conversations, however in this case I will continue.
Well I thought it best to say what I mean by truth as you’re apparently using a very different definition. My standard of truth is reality itself, which is not personal or subjective at all. I suppose I could say reality is truth, or to avoid abusing language, reality is true. Don’t be fooled by the presupposationalists.
Not entirely sure what relevance Paul’s letters have to this discussion. Perhaps he thought he was saying true things, I’m sure the Oracle at Delphi did too, as did all the other preachers, priests, shamans, witches or holy men throughout history.
Your Timothy quote seems very apposite in a discussion regarding faith. Faith seems completely unconcerned with truth, its own maintenance is of more importance. Just look at all the various faithful around the world and their myriad gods and superstitions.
Where in “God’s word” does it tell us any truths about the universe around us? For those truths we have to appeal to a power even higher than the Bible or god himself, that is reality. The Bible never mentions any of the truths that the study of reality has revealed to us, and in fact seems to get a lot wrong (the firmament, for example). Your assertion that the Bible is the only source of real truth is trivially untrue.
Glad to have you on board!
there is no power higher than God in the whole universe. and could you please capitalize G in God, thanks. and… um man so many things i could say. well for one I don’t believe the bible is the only source of truth, but it is a big one.
if you are not sure of the Paul’s letters relevance then please read this:
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
now I want to explain to you what evolution believes and what I believe. you tell me what is more likely to be true.
evolution believes that you came from a rock, there is no right or wrong because we are apes, losing knowledge resulted in gradual gaining knowledge, it dates the fossils by the rock layers and the rock layers by the fossils ( I call that circular reasoning), there was nothing and from nothing came an explosion that made something, black people are just less evolved than white people (that is real racism) AND evolution has no promise of tomorrow it has no proof that the sun will rise tomorrow!!
I (creationist) believe that I came from God (Isa 44:2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb), there is a right and wrong and everyone is accountable to God even if they don’t want to be (or don’t believe they are), variation between kinds (labs and chihuahuas are still dogs), use radiometric dating to date fossils (noting that the decay rate hasn’t always been the same as it is now, adding in the flood makes everything under 6,000 years old), Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, there is ONE race many variations and colors all are special AND there is a promise of tomorrow for all who believe on Jesus Christ and him crucified (and rose from the dead on the third day).
so which is more likely to be true? Choose wisely!
We’re undergoing a fair bit of topic drift here.
Do you know that Timothy was written (as all the books where) before the Bible was actually assembled? There’s a raft of other Scripture to which this would have applied that aren’t even in the Bible. Context is king eh?
I don’t know where you’re getting your information on science, but they’re lying to you. All of the things you mention have been responded too ad nauseum all over the internet since forever. It’s boilerplate creationist tomfoolery.
I suggest you read some sources that disagree with what you think, might as well have a look eh? If you’re right, you’ve got nothing to fear.
This is one of the problems with faith, what you believe is far more important that whether it’s actually true. The people who spread these stories would far rather you believed it too.
Don’t believe me? Go check the things you’ve been repeating here, from sites on the opposite side of the fence.
“so which is more likely to be true? Choose wisely!”
I’m going to have to go with reality. With what actually appears to be true. To do otherwise seems dishonest, believing something which appears-not-to-be-true, it’s like fooling yourself, and some call it faith.
My goodness! What am I supposed to do about this thread?
First off, thanks everyone for keeping things civil. I can tell there’s been a little “testiness” slipping out here or there, but you have refrained from devolving into name-calling and have put efforts into being respectful — even though you all profoundly disagree. That’s rare on the Internet and I’m always glad to observe it on my site.
With that said, I want to share a few thoughts with the young people responding to Joe’s World (JW) or reading his comments:
You read this article and were inspired. You want to be able to defend your faith. That is admirable. Then along comes a friendly non-believer willing to engage with you in the comment section and you could think, “What an amazing opportunity to unapologetically defend everything I believe!” … Well, I would say, “Hold up…”
To start with, not everything you believe is true — and that doesn’t mean that everything you believe is false. One mark of maturity is recognizing that you can be wrong about something without being wrong about everything — or in other words, that you can let yourself lose a battle without losing the war.
For example, this debate with JW is not looking particularly winnable. He’s smart, well-prepared, and probably more than twice as old as each of you.
It reminds me of the non-NCAA men’s soccer team at my small private Christian college. We were lousy as college teams go. We’d get absolutely clobbered by weak Division III schools, who in turn would get absolutely clobbered by weak Division II schools, who in turn would get absolutely clobbered by weak Division I schools, who in turn would get absolutely clobbered by strong Division I schools.
What’s the point?
The point is that true preeminence in soccer wasn’t being decided on our level — just like the existence of God and the truth of Christianity isn’t being decided in this comment thread. JW might run circles around you, but someone else on our side could run circles around him, and someone else on his side could run circles around our guy, and on and on. The greatest minds in history have engaged on these topics and if there was a winning argument that couldn’t be answered the whole world might agree by now. 😉
The important thing to remember is that God and Truth are not affected by the outcome of our human debates. We must debate and we should debate these topics, but not as if God or Truth actually depended on it.
That doesn’t mean this discussion doesn’t matter — it just doesn’t need to rock your world apart. JW has brought up some strong arguments. He may even stump you. Don’t worry. That doesn’t mean there aren’t answers.
At the same time, you don’t have to be afraid of the truth. If JW has brought up something that you can’t adequately respond to, just admit you don’t know and then go sniff out the truth. You might find out that certain things you believed are untrue. That’s okay too. Once again, you don’t have to be right about everything to be right about the most important things — just be humble and open to reason and keep learning all you can.
Thanks for reading!
thanks Brett. and originally I wasn’t going to converse with this Joe’s world guy, BUT then i thought what if he was able to trick someone younger in the faith! so i’m not necessarily doing this for him, but for the readers of the comments so they can know there are answers. I believe I am fully prepared for the conversation, even though I am only 15, I’ve read all the books, watched all the documentaries, and have some experience with his kind. but don’t worry if it gets to intense or worthless or if the goal is lost i’ll pull out.
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? ~Grant
Hey Grant, I appreciate your passion and all the time you’ve put into preparation. I’d be the first person to say that teenagers can engage with big ideas and don’t have to shy away from challenges.
I believe confidence is good — if it is married to humility. The wisest men I know *never* go into a discussion thinking they have all the answers. They have a settled confidence that the truth is one their side, but they are not cocky. I’m glad to see you feeling confident in your preparation, but don’t let that carry over into thinking you have it all figured out. You won’t find any wise, godly apologists with that attitude.
Also, don’t forget 1 Corinthians 13:1, which says, “If I speak in the tongue of men and angels but have not love, I am only a resounding gong and a clanging cymbal.”
All the arguments in the world can’t replace love and respect for others. You don’t have to agree with JW, but do everything you can to be kind, courteous, and loving in the way you talk to him and about him to others.
Thanks for listening, Grant. I’m not putting you down. I’m just trying to encourage you. You have amazing potential and you’ve worked hard to be prepared. I just want to see you put as much time into thinking about how to be humble and loving as you do into crafting your next argument — not just in this debate, but in every debate you ever participate in for the rest of your life.
Keep up the good work!
thanks Brett! i’ll try to do better in the future, although I must say it’s unusual and different for me to convey love through the web. I’m generally the person that would rather call than txt or talk to someone than Email them. Thanks so much for the advice Brett! ~Grant
PS how come Alex doesn’t comment like you do?
Thanks Brett. Not being a regular at this site I wasn’t aware of the age of participants. It was just beginning to dawn on me that perhaps I did have a slight age advantage. That said the other participants have been sincere and I’ll press on a little, if nobody minds.
No problem, JW. I’m fine with you engaging with the young people provided: 1) No parents start to complain, 2) Things stay as civil as they’ve been so far, and 3) My view of you as genuinely caring and truth-seeking person doesn’t change. I don’t mind dissent, but dissent for the sake of dissent or just making trouble bugs me. Otherwise, stick around and may your quest for truth lead you to it. =)
for an unbeliever you sure have studied the bible.
so you don’t believe you came from a rock? where then?
do you really want some reality? it doesn’t get any more real than this: John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
now that’s reality! see ya soon~Grant
I’m not exactly sure what motivations you’re attributing to me that you think I would “trick” someone younger in the faith. Requests that you go study a topic are not tricks, requests for honesty are not tricks. Christian or no, reality is not a trick, for all intents and purposes.
You say you’ve read all the books and watched all the documentaries. I suspect, correct me if I’m wrong, that these were all things that supported your position. What I suggest to you is that you may have been tricked yourself, that these sources may not be being honest, and that if you take a good look at sources that oppose your position you will see this to be true. My original post, before the topic branched into science, was about taking everything with a pinch of salt, being skeptical and not taking anyone’s word for it.
Why would I think these sources are tricking you? Because I’ve been at this for 20 years (a comparatively small amount of time) and in that time I’ve seen the anti-science mob come out with the most jaw-dropping lies and misrepresentations in order to maintain a faith. Perhaps I’m wrong, why not go see?
Where did I come from? Where did humanity come from? Where did life come from? Where did the universe come from? What are you asking really?
In the beginning was the word. But before that reality must have existed for a word/god to inhabit. There is something even more fundamental than god. Mind blowing eh?
There is nothing more fundamental than God. He is the foundation of the earth. God created reality, he can most certainly exist outside of it.
Really, though, it is not possible to understand God without faith.
1 Corinthians 2:14
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
Actually, regarding the firmament, it is believed that it was something like a thin cloud cover, which would have accounted for the fact that it had never rained before the Flood, and the apparently uniform climate. It also would have provided much of the water necessary for the Flood. As to where it is now, it fell during the Flood, and the excess water is now being stored in the ice caps (as global warming people frequently mention.)
yes, very good Valiant. pertaining to that, I like the Hovind theory. which believes, not in a thin cloud cover, but a thin ice cover. the thin ice cover is believed to have acted like a hyperbaric chamber causing people to live longer, things to grow bigger and better oxygen that would be required for the dinosaurs. when it melted the effects would have been gone thus leading to the slow dying out of the dinosaurs, and people not living as long. but hey, it’s just a theory, might be true, might not be true.
I definitely agree with you about knowing the truth. The Bible says, “You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.” It’s not simply what you believe to be true. Totally agree with Aristotle when he said to follow the evidence wherever it leads. I think that sometimes what appears to be true is not necessarily true, but we have to have evidence to back up our observations. I believe there is ultimate truth that can be found and I believe that God is the truth. Thank you for making that point Joe. Faith is based on the truth.
If all religions require faith then how can it be based on the truth? Faith appears to be simply believing something to be true. Look at people like the Flat Earth Society or Young Earth Creationists, these are positions held to by faith and run counter to the truth of reality itself. Saying “faith is based on truth” seems a little glib and inaccurate.
I understand if you’re not wanting to get into a debate here. My original point was only a suggestion to be honest. I don’t believe honesty and faith fit together very well.
The is a good article. RTB is good on integrating science and religion and Reasonable faith is good with showing how faith is reasonable and logical. Gary Habermas is very good on the Historicity of the Resurrection and how that the majority of New Testament critical scholars Christian or non Christian believe that Jesus existence is a historical fact and that the his disciples saw him appear to them
Yah, the crucifixion of Jesus Christ is the most historically documented event in ancient history! I think one of the greatest proofs for the resurrection is that there were over 500 witnesses that he appeared to and they weren’t just his followers but his enemies also claimed that he appeared to them (like Paul on the road to Damascus). And they didn’t only claim to have seen him, they were willing to die for that claim. No one is that dedicated to something they know isn’t true. Thanks for reading the article and for the feedback!
You are welcome Luke. 500 hundred witnesses to one event is amazing especially in ancient history. But skeptics wont except it. Despite all the evidence. 11 sources outside the Bible is awesome again in ancient history. Look up Gary Habermas on the Veritas Forum on youtube if you want to watch it. He also in the video explains that 70 to 80 percent of kids that loose their faith because emotional reasons not logical.
So, are you choosing your religion based on the amount of evidence there is for it? Did you look at all the other religious, see how much evidence there is for each and choose to believe in Christianity because you thought it had the most amount of evidence to support it? Is that really the only reason you are a Christian? Islam, actually has more evidence for it that Christianity. It was founded about 500 years after Christianity, so any historical documents would be more reliable. Plus, we know that Muhammad lived and walked on the Earth, we don’t know if Jesus did. So, if there is more evidence for Muhammad than Jesus, then I would say based off of the evidence you should be a muslim.
I don’t know anything about this Gary Habermas guy or the study that you mentioned (I am guessing he is a Christian and therefore the study would be full of bias). I would have to ask several questions of this study for it to have any meaning. I would ask, how old were the kids? How many kids were even studied? What faith did they have? What were their parents faith? What emotional reason do they claim? Where do they live and what is their educational background like? What is their socio-econimic status? What is there gender and race? All of these things would influence the study.
Actually if there is anything more reliable it is the New Testament. The new testament had more than 25,000 copies 25 years after the first one was written. This passes the Bibliographical test. So if you base your beliefs and only look for worldly evidence, shouldn’t this be convincing?
If the document is then reliable, and it is only about the life of Christ. Then this should be proof that HE did exist! And still does!
The same book that claims Jesus rose from the dead also claims there were witnesses. This is not even evidence. I could right a book saying that my pancake was resurrected from the dead and I have proof because 500 people saw it. The problem is, you have no reason to believe my pancake rose from the dead (such a thing has never happened before) and furthermore just because I say there were witnesses doesn’t mean there actually were. And even if there were 500 witnesses, it is still bad evidence because research has shown that an eyewitness account is the worst form of evidence there is, in fact, in science we don’t even consider an eye witness account as evidence. The reason is that eye witnesses get information wrong all the time. But in the end, you cannot use the bible to prove the bible, it just doesn’t work that way.
Don’t use science to determine your beliefs. If you only rely on the works and proof of the world you will find nothing.
There are many people who have seen Jesus even today. A 3 year old died and went to heaven and experienced time with Jesus! Jesus sent him back to earth to grant the boy’s father’s wishes. When he came back the parents were blown away. The boy even said he saw his other sister (whom his parent had not told about) and his uncle. (His father’s mentor)
True story! From a three year old who had died but came alive again through the power if Jesus!
I don’t use science to determine my beliefs, I use it to find out about how nature works.
Yes, I have heard of that boy, he wrote a book right? I think there is a documentary about him on netflix too based on the book. I am glad the boy is ok, but I don’t believe that he saw Jesus. I believe he was very close to death and so his brain started acting odd. But he didn’t die (thankfully) he just appeared to be dead. Other people have had similar experiences. Do you believe people of other faiths who have similar experiences yet see their own god rather than Jesus? Was their experience authentic, or were THEY the crazy one?
Thanks Mr. Luke. When I went to college, I had lots of unbelieving classmates. It really bothered me. I doubted God before when I became a philosophy enthusiast and I don’t want it to happen again. But it happened. I became a philosophy enthusiasts again. Philosophy which teaches to doubt everything. I just prayed that God would save me from the chains of doubt. Then, I was surprised by the amount of revelations He will reveal to you when you seek Him earnestly. My relationship with God grew stronger. As well as my faith. Just seek the truth without any preconceived bias and it will reveal itself. And hey, I have a book recommendation. It’s a free online book. Mind checking this out? http://www.foolishfaith.com/book.asp 🙂
What a great testimony! Thanks for the book recommendation. I read just about whatever I can get my hands on. I saw that book you recommended has a chapter on the anthropoid principle. I recently wrote an article on that. It’s such a great proof for creation. I’ll read the rest of it as soon as possible!
If you try really hard to believe in something, then to you it will probably seem true. Some people sought truth and they found it; they found that the truth was they were born on another planet. They read books that confirmed what they believed too. The point is, just because you seek something and find it, doesn’t mean it is true. Scientists use the placebo effect all the time and what they find is people who took placebo pills claim to experience the same cure as those who took the real pill. So when that verse says seek God and you will find Him, I am not surprised, because with enough effort people can be led to believe all sorts of strange things (just ask the Nazis).
Wow! This is exactly what I experienced once when talking to an atheist. Thanks for the encouragement that you have given me that I should always know what I believe.
I am so thankful for the Holy Spirit’s empowerment as well. I am so glad I am not alone, and I know what you mean about being shocked. We don’t often realize how little we know until we are presented with hard questions. It’s so great to know that you were encouraged! Thank you so much for the encouragement of letting me know that this was helpful!
It’s not that atheists are “not letting God in their life”, it’s that they have examined these and other questions and determined that there is no God. Telling an atheist that they need to let God into their life to find answers to their questions is like telling a Christian they need to let Zeus into their life. To a Christian, letting Zeus into their life would be ridiculous, it’s not that they are rebelling against Zeus, it’s that they don’t believe in him. It would be preposterous to tell a christian that to find the answer to the question “why is there suffering in the world?” they need to just believe in Zeus. Or perhaps they would say that Zeus doesn’t have all the answers, that’s why you have to have faith. The point is, don’t tell an atheist that they need to let God into their life, because they don’t even believe in God (therefore, God will not have the answers for them).
Believing in God isn’t just a belief. It is life. When we open our hearts to Him, we receive peace and comfort in the time of trials. Peace that no human on earth could give us.
There is nothing wrong in reaching out to those that could share in this!
I was thinking this morning and wanted to clear up one thing that I thought people might take the wrong way from this article. You don’t have to have all of the answers to these questions in order to share the gospel. The disciples were all uneducated men but were empowered by the Holy Spirit. The answers to these questions are helpful to know so that we can be better prepared to be used by God. No matter how far along you are in your relationship with God you can be used to effectively share the gospel. My pastor says this, “Go with what you know, and what you don’t know you will know when you need to know it.” It’s a little confusing but read it a couple of times and it makes a lot of sense. The Bible says, “When you are arrested, don’t worry about how to respond or what to say. God will give you the right words at the right time.” (Matthew 10:19 NLT)
But the problem is that atheists DO have answers to those questions. So if you are going to talk to an atheist about God, yet he is more educated on the subject then you, how do you hope to convince him of anything?
convincing said atheist is not our job, that’s the Holy Spirits job, we are merely vessels… we speak what we know and trust that the Holy Spirit will work according to His will. and even if said atheist is not enlightened by the Holy Spirit while talking to us, he might while talking to the next guy, sometimes we are not meant to reap the harvest, sometimes we are meant to plant the seeds or water them… and sometimes, we are merely meant to break rocks
Hey Luke, thanks for encouraging us to be thoughtful and active in what we believe! This is definitely an area where I need growth–and probably will always be needing to grow in!
When I read your bio and saw your age I smiled, because I was imagining you as like, 25 or something. 🙂 Thanks for following God, man, and being an example!
Blessings.
Thanks for the encouragement. Your articles are great too! It’s always great to know there are other people my age that are passionate about following Christ.
Brutally honest and G-rated I guess? Ok I’ll give it a go!
I’m going to have to say what I said to Grant below. I don’t know who are the sources of your scientific understanding are, but I wouldn’t trust them. Perhaps they are honestly misinformed or perhaps they’re pretending not to know, but what they’re telling you isn’t good quality information. Go have a good look at the things we’ve discovered by studying reality and you’ll see what I mean. Don’t believe me? *shrug* Go see.
Saying that other people have faith too always seemed counter-productive to me. It sounds like a whine “but you guys have faith tooooo”, I mean the opposition are hardly going to believe you’re bigging them up It also isn’t really true.
I think of faith as the effort required to believe something, the act of believing it.It takes no effort to believe something that appears-to-be-true, it’s right there, appearing to be true. And as I’m sure you’ve heard said; if you have evidence, you don’t need faith.
The faith comes along when believing something that appears-not-to-be-true (because it is nowhere in evidence).
Australia exists? Appears to be true
There’s a giant seagull on my head? Appears not to be true
God(s) exist? Appears not to be true
Of course I’m not going to accept your testimony! In the most congenial sense; some people believe they were kidnapped by aliens.
Have you thought about the consequences of your beliefs though? We are the property of an unelected dictator, who can do anything at all (including torture and kill) to us simply because he owns us, and who demands fealty on pain of endless suffering.
In our society ownership of people and torture are both outlawed and profoundly immoral. We support democracy, not might-makes-right tyranny.
Is it likely we’ve morally surpassed a god? Or do the characteristics of this story bear the hallmarks of the primitive society from which they originated?
That this god would also send us to the most horrific place imaginable is morally outrageous. Under such subjugation you’d be justified in standing up and declaring that it was wrong and that you were not going to bow down to such a diabolical exaction. That would take some real moral courage eh?
Am I willing to take the risk? What choice do I have? It’s either that, or lie to myself, and I’d rather be honest. Would I bow down to save my own backside, and abandon friends and family to suffer forever? How could I do that and ever look myself in the eye again? It’s fortunate that there appears to be no reason at all to believe any of this is reality.
Joe, thanks for being honest. But you still haven’t answered my question: Where did the matter, which caused the big bang, come from? There is no more “appearance” of evidence for this than there is for the Creator. Both Creation and evolution are theories which must be accepted by faith.
I agree with you. The description you gave of God is totally immoral. In fact, it’s not at all who God is. God reveals Himself through the Bible. I believe the Bible to be verifiable and true (but that’s a whole other discussion). He says He hates oppression and slavery. He says he vehemently hates murder and deception. And He calls those who believe in Him to fight against oppression and to work for the end of slavery.
The fact is, is that God is perfect, loving (in the complete sense of the word), moral, and gives you freedom to follow Him or not. But we’ve broken His law of perfection and morality. And that is why people die, women get raped, and children starve. He’s calling us back to Himself and asking us to fight with Him against evil.
Each of us has broken God’s law–his perfection. Our sin separates us from God and His love. It is OUR sin that separates us from His amazing love, not HIS sin, OUR sin. Therefore if we want to experience God’s love, we have to confess our sin and repent of it. Then He calls us to work with Him and undoing the evil we have caused.
Get this: We have caused the sin and chaos. Knowing that we will never measure up to His perfection, OUT OF HIS LOVE for us He payed for EVERY TRANSGRESSION we made. There is not a single thing we have to do in order to become a child of God. We just have to recognize that we’ve broken His moral law and throw our eternal souls at His mercy. It’s that simple.
God’s not a dictator at all. He created the world because He wanted someone to love. In a way, you could say He was lonely. So He created you and me. And true love is GIVEN not forced, so He gave us a choice whether to love Him or not. Unfortunately we spat on the love He gave us; we wanted to be independent. By this WE separated OURSELVES from His genuine, unconditional love. It’s a fact, it’s reality, that we are only alive because God is allowing us to live longer. Each second we live longer is a result of God’s love for us and His desire to be reconciled with us.
Yes, I have thought hard about the consequences of my faith. Right now I have the joy of knowing Jesus the most loving and accepting being ever to live and I have the hope that I’ll live forever in a restored perfection called Heaven. I don’t know exactly how Heaven going to be, but I know it’ll be good.
One of these days, God is going to step in and say, “Enough! Enough of this chaos and pain. I’ve had enough of seeing my precious people groan ‘under the curse.'” And He is going to separate those who continue to rebel against Him and refuse Him from those who have given up their independence in order to know Him and His love. Those who rebel will be put in Hell (which is ideally only for the Devil), not because God wanted it that way. He says He hates that people have to be put in Hell. But because He can’t allow lawbreakers into Heaven. He’s given us a choice: Heaven or Hell. What will it be?
Following Jesus isn’t surrendering to a horrible dictator, but rather surrendering to the most powerful, loving, beautiful Being imaginable.
BTW: whether you are G-rated or not makes no difference to me. Tell me what you want to tell me. But for my part, I see no reason to cuss you out or anything like that and I think you, as a respectable person, would feel the same. (But whatever is not G-rated will probably get moderated for the sake of others and younger people.) Actually, I wish we could have this conversation face-to-face because I think (I hope) we’d get along well. You seem like an intelligent person. And personally, I like talking with people face to face because then we get a better idea of the other person’s personality and demeanor. Anyways, this is totally a side note and not relevant to the conversation. 🙂
Well the matter of the universe “congealed” from the energy of the big bang. Think of water, when cold it is ice, then add energy. It becomes water, then steam, then plasma. As it gets hotter (more energy) its constituent bits get stripped apart into energy. Matter IS energy, just cooled down. There are many good sources on the internet on the period after the big bang, go look.
Creationism and evolution are not different theories that stand equal. I really suggest having a look at the debate on this topic from non-creationist sources. They’ve been fooling the credulous for a long time, and though their lies are sometimes quite sophisticated any objective look at the evidence only really stands on one side. After all if creationism had any merit it would be accepted science. Science doesn’t care what is true so long as it IS true. The creationists don’t care what is true so much as what people believe is true. Only one side can claim any honesty in this. Creationists have had to invent their own “scientific” journals in order to publish their work, as their work is so transparently dishonest it would never get passed the scientific process.
Let’s not forget that, to a theist, science is the study of God’s creation. Those who prefer the Biblical story over reality have in fact raised a man-made book over God’s creation itself. The creation must be at least one step closer to God, as it was directly created and not created through man like the Bible. The Bible worship of the creationists smells awfully like idolatry.
You say my description of God is not at all who he is. But I can only go on what God’s followers and holy books say. And they seem to contradict the image of God you put forward. For example,
God murders at will,
God never condemns slavery preferring instead to give rules on how to treat slaves, the Bible was used by both sides in the struggle for the emancipation of the slaves in the US,
God cannot save those he wants to save which is far from perfect,
God condemns many to suffer a fate worse than death, hardly loving,
God apparently operates under a moral standard that we humans have surpassed (slavery, killing, blackmail, torture, might-makes-right dictatorship, all things we have outlawed), so not really moral.
Is it more likely that this god is actually the perfect creator of the universe, or that this god is the creation of people to whom death was imminent, tyrants were rife, slavery was normal etc etc. I suspect the only honest answer is the latter.
There’s a lot of Christian theology in your post which I lack the energy to go through. Suffice to say that none of it stands up to honest analysis. Where it doesn’t run counter to the evidence it makes not an iota of logical sense.
Of course that’s exactly what we’d expect from a religion created by a fearful, ignorant and superstitious people. But it’s not at all what we’d expect from a super-being.
But to see that you have to look at it objectively, and be honest about your conclusions. To return somewhat to what I was originally saying; faith is the opposite of this honesty, it is the preservation of belief in the face of reality.
Even after reading this, I still need advice. Throughout my life, (and it will happen again eventually), I have wondered who I really was, and if there was a God to help me. I always questioned my real self, like when I’m at school, I act like a normal school girl with my friends, or when I’m at church I act like I really belong there and I am christian. But who am I really? I dont have an image, and I know there is a God, but does he really care about a plain old girl like me? What would he want to do with me? What is God doing in my life?
First off, I just want to encourage you that God DEFINITELY cares about you! The Bible says that you are “Fearfully and wonderfully made.” God has a plan and purpose for all of us that is greater than we know.
I heard this great analogy the other day about our relationship with God and what he is doing in our life being like baseball. If the pitch is slow and there’s not a lot behind it, no matter how strong the batter is, the ball wont be hit very far. But if the batter is thrown a 100 mph fast ball, he will be able to crush it out of the park. It’s like that with our relationship with God. The harder we throw Him the pitch, or the harder we seek him, the farther he will hit it. Hebrews 11:6 says, “he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.” God will reveal himself more and more as we diligently seek him.
Sometimes following Christ is difficult, and we were never told that it would be easy, but it is definitely worth it. I know that for me, I never truly knew “who I was” until I got into the Word and really discovered who He is and what He has done for me. Who we were really made and meant to be comes shining through as we surrender to Christ’s will for our lives. I don’t have all the answers to your questions, but I hope this provided some helpful encouragement. 🙂
Thanks Luke! I’m pretty stoked right now reading your post and your website––I find myself wrestling with these questions, particularly the problem of evil and suffering, and it is so encouraging to see you and other commenters here seeking God in these things as well. These are THE big questions getting thrown around in class(I go to a Christian University), and I think a lot Christians, myself included, have answered professors with blank stares. This kind of questioning has the potential to steal our joy in Christ by causing doubt, fear, and uncertainty; none of which are God’s intent for us! Understanding “why” is a weighty thing, and I’m finding that God does not leave us to wonder––we can rest in full assurance of hope in God.
That’s awesome! Yah, I think we really have unique opportunities to share the gospel and take a stand for Christ at this stage in our lives. Thanks for sharing!
I struggled with this when I was about 17/18 (I’m now 22), and it really bothered me. My parents said the way they knew, beyond doubt, that God and the Bible were real was because they knew that they had a real relationship with God and the Holy Spirit was in their hearts. So if that’s true, we accept the Bible as true and faith goes from there. I was feeling confused at the time but I watched my life and monitored my relationship with God, and got to the point where I could (and still can) say that I know God is in me and He is true. The Bible mentions this when it says in 2 Cor 5:5 that God has “given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come”.
God’s spirit in me is my guarantee.
http://www.consumedbyhimblog.wordpress.com
Sorry, but that just isn’t good evidence (it’t not evidence at all). You realize that every other religion in the world could make similar claims. Children say they know Santa Claus is real because they have a relationship with him. Not only that, but they can write to him and he writes back (even God doesn’t do that). Because children have this relationship with Santa Claus, that means he must be real, right?
Yes, God does that. You just have to be open to receive his message! A heart of stone isn’t open to anything!
Hey man, I don’t have a heart of stone, I’m just having a conversation here.
But other religions will say that their god (or gods or goddess) speaks to them too. What would you say about that?
I get what you mean. And I know that it sounds crazy. 🙂 But I don’t think it’s something you can understand until you do it. It’s not evidence that I can take to the scientific community to use to prove God’s existence, but the fact remains – I’m convinced. I’ve seen answers to prayer, felt God’s peace where previously there was none and seen my own character change. And I do keep on asking God for more. He promises that if we really ask, He will answer. So you’re guaranteed to find your answers if you are really seeking. Matt 7:7
I understand what you are saying. I think most Christians would have a similar experience. Yet my point remains, kids have a lot of evidence for Santa Claus. They have letters answered (prayers), feel safe on his lap (peace), experienced joy and changed their behavior for Santa, and there are even stories about how if you truly believe in Santa, you will find him, it is the kids who don’t believe in Santa that just aren’t “seeing the truth”. Yet despite all of this, all this evidence, Santa Clause is fake. But to some kids, that doesn’t matter, they will do all they can to convince the self that Santa is real, despite the evidence to the contrary.
Jessica,
Sorry for my previous comment. I should not have been so rude to you. I especially feel bad since you say that you were struggling with the topics of this article and then I posted a comment that could only be described as hurtful. I am glad that you find peace and joy in worshipping God. Keep spreading his love and don’t let rude comments like the ones I posted stop you.
Great article Luke! This is a topic I am very passionate about, and I’m glad to see so many of the resources we have mentioned in the comments. 😀
Something I’ve found quite disturbing in chatting to many young and older believers world wide is the lack of teaching within the Church which they receive. Nice stories to illustrate Biblical points, and definitely explaining and discovering theology by studying Scripture, are great things to teach, but there is far more which seems to be pretty much ignored.
Our beliefs and theology need to be grounded firmly in the Bible, and we need to know the facts and arguments for both sides on each point we hold to. It’s all very well and good to say (and believe) we are pre or post millennial or Calvinistic or conservative or anything else, but we must have (and know) the reasons why we believe those things. Researching, from our family, Christian (and atheist) friends, books and the internet are great for learning and discovering more, while having mock debates with family and friends or sharing our beliefs with others is one of the best ways we can confirm the strengths of our arguments. It’s also a great way to gain maturity in debating – one of the easiest places to lose our ‘cool’ and the gentleness and humility which should mark our words.
On a slightly different note, the internet certainly has many, many pitfalls, and we can make some terrible mistakes on it, but in hard situations, when we face severe opposition and (perhaps) people with stronger arguments delivered with little or no grace, we learn the strength and find the ability to debate using ‘a soft answer’ but one which ‘gives the reason for the hope that we have’. 🙂
God bless,
Carrie
Thanks Luke, you make a very good point! When I read your questions/statements I was relieved to find that I could answer most of them!
For instance, statement two that says “Evolution is proven” is untrue.
Both Evolution and Creationism are scientific theories, and science CAN NOT PROVE ANYTHING! You can only base your own decision about which you will believe from facts, and your own convictions.
Also the third that says “the Bible isn’t historically inaccurate” is an untrue statement as well. The Bible passes all three historical document tests, (Internal, External, and Bibliographic) AND is considered one of the MOST historically accurate documents of it’s time!
Some of them were a little more tricky though, and I should spend some time finding more definite answers.
True, science cannot prove anything, but scientific conclusions are based on evidence, not convictions. A scientific theory demands evidence, it is not a theory unless there is substantial evidence to support it. Therefor, evolution is a theory because there is evidence for it, creationism is not a theory because there is not evidence for it. This is why creationism needs to stay out of the science classroom. It can be in the religious studies class, that is fine, but it is not science.
Ahh there is lots of scientific evidence for creationism. If the Jews exist then there IS a God. If there is a God then he DID make the world. Evolution, hmm. The idea that we all evolved over million of years. If so? Why don’t we see any changes today? Even small ones?
The existence of Jews does not prove God, nor is it any form of evidence. I could say that Native Americans exist and therefore their religion is true or that Indians exist so Hinduism is true or that Romans exist so Zeus is true. Of course, all these claims would be silly. Instead I might claim that the Romans INVENTED Zeus and Jews INVENTED God, but I don’t have evidence that God actually exists simply because a certain race of people exists. Since you started this whole topic of race, we do see small evolutionary changes today (However, I agree, as far as I know we cannot see large changes because, like you said, those take thousands of years and several generations). I’m not trying to be racist or offend anyone, but the fact is people have different colored skin (black or white) because people have adapted to the amount of sun exposure they receive. People evolved in Africa, so they would have all originally had black skin. As they migrated more North into Europe, they recieved less sun exposure and therefore their skin became lighter so they could absorb more vitamin D from the sun.
This was an adaptation aquired through a mutation in their genes. When there is a change in allele frequency, such as changing from a “black” gene to a “white” gene, we call this evolution.
Actually, I need to make a correction. It is when there is a change in allele frequency from one population to the next that we have evolution. That is why we usually don’t see big evolutionary changes. Evolution doesn’t occur in individuals, it occurs in populations. So most evolutionary changes we see are small, but that is also because species don’t just instantly grow wings and start flying, it is a long process that requires several small steps.
This is merely adaptation not evolution. It could happen from sun exposure, a type of plant, or being in the dark.
Organisms adapt. When they adapt, their genes can change. They can pass those new genes to their offspring. Get enough of these changes in a population and allow them to reproduce and survive and you have evolution.
So, if the Bible Old Testament passed all three tests, the Internal, External, Bibliographical tests. It passed it, therefore by your scientific ways the history is correct. If the history is correct then does not God exist?
WHAT small changes do we see today?
Also, lots of the biblical prophesy has been fulfilled. For example, the city of Tyre was predicted to be destroyed by Ezekiel in a certain way. It was predicted that many nations would march against Tyre and that is what happened. It was predicted that after Tyre was destroyed it would be a place for fishermen to spread their nets and only after 600 A.D did this happen. Ezekiel predicted that Tyre debris would be thrown into the water. And it did. He couldn’t have been that lucky for something like that only could have been from God.
I am not sure what these tests are or what they mean, could you please send some information my way so that I could look into it (or if you could explain it to me yourself that would work too). I will assume though, for sake of this discussion, that the bible is 100% historically accurate (it’s not what I believe but I will go with it). Even if the bible is historically accurate, it doesn’t suggest that God exists. All that would mean is that the events in the bible happened. We have historical documents of the Greeks and Romans too, but just because what is recorded in their history is true doesn’t mean that their gods are true. I could write in my journal about events that happened in the year 1999, the events could be historically accurate, but that doesn’t mean that EVERYTHING I say is also true. I could say that in 1999 people were worried about Y2K, which is true, but I could also say I believe I was abducted by aliens that same year, which isn’t true.
Just look up what the three tests are on the internet. They are used to tell whether a historical document is either true or false. The New testement also passed the three tests very well. It had over 25,000 copies written 25 years after the first copy.
The events that took place that have been discovered as true are works of God. Like the flood. There has been lots of evidence on that. Like the grand canyon. It is made out of made from sedimentary rock which is form by layers. The flood could have mixed up many substances to make the layers that formed the rocks of the grand canyon. That is called Chemical Weathering.
Again, even if the history of the bible is accurate, it doesn’t prove God. However, if the history is accurate, the it would be at least some evidence for God, I will admit that.
I have not seen any good evidence for the flood. On top of that, Noah’s ark, scientifically, couldn’t have happened. Think about it, all animals have different requirements, many have very specialized niches. Reptiles, like bearded dragons for example, need very specific heat and humidity requirements. The requirements for a bearded dragon are very different than those of a penguin. How could a penguin and a bearded dragon live in the same environment, scientifically, it isn’t possible. On top of that, what about all the carnivores, what did they eat that whole time?
I don’t see how you are making the connection between the Grand Canyon and the Flood. How is that evidence of the Flood? The layers of sediment in the Grand Canyon show how layers of sediment form over thousands of years. Each layer that is layer down is from a different time period. In fact, the Grand Canyon is a great time machine to look back into the past and understand what the conditions would have been like. I don’t believe any of these layers suggest a flood. If there was evidence for the Flood, then scientists would accept it, scientists arnt bias (they try not to be). They go where the evidence leads. Contrary to Christian belief, scientists are not suppressing or ignoring any evidence of the Flood. Any “evidence” that has ever come up has been laughable, scientist don’t accept it because the evidence isn’t any good.
Sorry to butt in here. Just wanted to refer you to a website call Answers in Genesis. Dr. Ken Ham and Dr. Jason Lisle will have some incredible scientific information for you. Pay attention to their credentials first, then listen to what they have to say. I heard Dr. Ham in person, at Calvary Chapel of Philadelphia. You can hear him and Dr. Lisle on the CCPhilly website under the Faith and Science subheading. I am no scientist, in fact I do not like science. I am a humble student of Early Childhood Education so I speak comfortably to three year old children. I am currently taking an Apologetics course and stumbled across this page. Please, listen to the smart men, not me!!
Thanks for your time.
ANY mutation in an organisms gene sequence is a small change. We see these changes by looking at their DNA. You can do experiments with fruit flys where you see mutations in the flys eye color. Humans have modified almost all of the crops that we eat, a form of artificial evolution. People who have a mutation called sickle cell disease are immune to HIV (or at least highly resistant). ANY adaptation of an organism to its environment is a small change. We see evidence of organisms growing larger or smaller based on their available food supply. We see plants develop different levels of shade tolerance based on the amount of sunlight they receive. We see rats behave differently to their young based on whether or not the mother rat licked the baby rat ( the change in behavior is linked to genetics and gene regulation). All these changes are small, but that is how evolution works, lots of small changes eventually leads to a new species. Have you ever heard of Darwin’s Finch’s or the Peppered Moth study? For Darwin’s Finch’s, there is a group of Finch’s on an isolate island. There are slight variations in the beak size and shape of the finches. At different times the environment favors a different beak size and shape. For example, if there are only hard nuts available, the finch with a beak best suited for breaking nuts will be the one that survives and reproduces. This will change the allele frequency of the population of finches, favoring those with a strong beak. When you have a change in the allele frequency from one population to the next, you have evolution.
You must understand most of these things are adaptation. they can change because of the environment they are living in or of certain consequences. Plus if human makes stuff it is their creation, not evolution.
HAS there been ONE new creature that has evolved from something else that one of these people have actually witnessed? NO!
God made animals, plants, and humans the ability to adapt through certain changes.
One thing happens that causes the body to react. If it was evolution then why does it not happen to all of us!
If humans modify an organism, and the allele frequency within that population changes, and that population continues to survive and reproduce, then the species is evolving. It is human induced or artificial evolution, but it is still evolution. Humans did create the new organism, so you could call it creation, but they did through the process of evolution.
We don’t need to directly witness something, we can indirectly witness it and it still counts as evidence. The evidence that we “see” all points towards evolution. We see evidence that we share a common ancestor with chimps. We see evidence that dinosaurs evolved into birds. The reason evolution is a theory is because we see evidence for it.
Evolution works within populations, not individuals, so you will never see one organism evolve onto another one. You can see one population branch off from a different population. The new population might end up on an island where the conditions are different than the parent population. Because the conditions are different, the species adapts. These adaptations eventually add up, causing the new population to be different enough from the parent population that it is considered a new species. This is why we see so many unique species in Austalia for example. You wanted some evidence of ONE population evolving, well Austrailia is a great place to fine evidence of hundreds of populations that have evolved.
Evolution did happen to all of us, that’s how you got here. The question of are we still evolving is an entirely different one.
Now that is your belief. Please don’t trudge and try to change mine. I strongly believe that God created the world and that is that.
God Bless,
Liam
Evolution is not a belief, it’s not an opinion. I don’t believe that the Earth is the third planet from the sun, I have evidence to support it. So too with evolution, I don’t “believe” in it, we have evidence to support it, which is different than a belief.
I also don’t believe you should change the minds if kids. Scientists don’t come knocking on the doors of Sunday school classrooms telling them what to put in the curriculum. Christians couldn’t go to public schools and tell science teachers what to put in their curriculum either. If you want to teach about God, fine, but do that at church. Let teachers teach science at school.
If you believe that evolution is true (as you obviously do) then you have a belief. The definition of belief is, something believed;
You do understand this is a Christian website, so no matter what you say won’t stop us from spreading the love of God.
I would look at the warning Brett gave you on the top of this page. 🙂
God Bless,
Liam
Liam, thanks for brining Brett’s comment to my attention. If you didn’t mention it I probably never would have seen it because for some reason the site didn’t tell me he posted.
I have enjoyed these discussions with you. I now realize I have come across as negative but your posts have given me a lot to think about. Thanks for chatting.
No problem Sam. 🙂
God Bless,
Liam
The prophesies are always very vague. Also, the fulfillment of all the prophesies MUST be interpreted. So, when one person says “look, the prophesy has come true as foretold” another person says “nope, I don’t think THAT was the correct fulfillment, I think it will happen another way.” Just look at the prophesy of Jesus. It is extremely vague as to what it is talking about and who it is talking about. The Jews don’t even believe that the prophesy of Jesus has been fulfilled. That must be the most important prophesy of all, if we can’t even get that one straight how can we expect to get any of the other ones figured out.
The prophesies are sorta like Chinese fortune cookies, they might say “you will experience great happiness in your future with a new job”. I might experience happiness in the future with a new job, but that doesn’t mean the cookie knew the future. All it means is there was a good chance that it would happen, some time, some day, to some person. Give the prophesies 2,000 plus years and sure, some of the stuff might actually happen, eventually, some time, in some place, some how.
Yes most are vague and no one has no clue what they are talking about but most have been found to be true by archaeology finds and by works. The Jews choose not to believe. They wanted a Messiah that would save them from their enemies. They never expected one who would come and save them from something spiritually. That is why they rejected Him and they still do.
A fortune cookie has nothing to do with this! All it is is a Chinese way to get money so they put some random fortune on it. Get that out of this.
The Jews interpret the prophesy differently then Christians, which is my point, prophesy demands an interpreter. How do you know your interpretation of the prophesy is “right” and the Jews interpretation is “wrong”?
You say that archeology has found the prophesies to be true because that is how you interpret the prophesy. Which is why Chinese fortune cookies do relate to this because I could tell you that the fortune cookie was right and use evidence to support it. But ultimately all I am doing is interpreting the fortune, I am trying to find a way for it to be true. If I seek for long enough and think about it long enough, eventually my fortune will come true. So too with prophesy, if you think about it and try to find out how it could be true, eventually you will find that it is fullfilled. But it will be fullfilled mainly just because you want it to be, not because the signs point to it being true.
Hey Sam B., I see that you and Liam have been having quite a few discussions all over the site. Here are a few observations from me:
1) Almost all your comments are negative. I certainly have no problem with dissent. We don’t delete comments or ban people just because they disagree. At the same time, if it seems like someone is just hanging around to start arguments, we give them a warning and ask them to stop.
[ Note: This is such a warning. 😉 ]
2) You are debating people half your age. I don’t know if you realized that, but many of our readers are very young, even though they are articulate and have quite a few arguments at their disposal. With that said, these aren’t fair fights for you to be starting.
3) You seem to be genuinely interested in the truth and at least once apologized for being rude. I appreciate those things and am assuming you are a very nice person who is passionate about what you believe and are trying to help others think more clearly about reality. I’m assuming that you don’t realize that you are kind of being a pest on the website by posting negative things everywhere (just like I would be if I went onto a site for secular teens and tweens and started contradicting 7th graders about everything they said).
In conclusion, I’m asking you to stop doing what you’ve been doing. I’m not banning you, nor am I asking you to never comment again. At this point I’m assuming that you didn’t realize how you were coming across and who you were actually debating with.
I wish you all the best in your search for truth.
Hey Brett, I love the books. Also, could you tell Alex I said so. I just want to thank you guys personally for everything they’ve changed in me/ done to me/ helped me with 🙂
Hey Banji! So glad you enjoyed the books. You are very welcome! =)
Brett,
Thanks for the comment. For some reason it didn’t show up in my feed, so I am just how getting it 3 days after you posted it.
I guess I need to apologize to you and your site/community. You are right, I haven’t been aware of how negative my comments have been. I did realize a few were negative and apologized for it, but now that you mention it, I see how most of my comments were negative, sorry. I apologize to anyone that I may have hurt or upset. I did not mean to be a pest, but looking back, I completely understand what you mean and I will stop.
Hey Sam, I really appreciate the way you have responded. You have confirmed to me that you are genuinely nice guy who just didn’t realize how he was coming across. Not only that, but you are humble enough to apologize.
I forgive you, of course, and wish you all the best. Also, if you have genuine questions about anything, feel free to post comments and engage with me and others.
Have a great day!
In science, we don’t prove anything. Scientists who truly understand evolution will not say that evolution is proven. That doesn’t mean that the idea is shaky or that there is no evidence for it. Instead, in science we support our hypothesis with evidence, but we never say we proved our hypothesis. Experiments can disprove, but they can never prove. When scientists do an experiment, what they are really doing is looking for evidence not proof. So, don’t talk to non Christians (especially atheists) about how evolution isn’t proven, it just makes you sound very scientifically illiterate to the rest of us.
Faith and trust are NOT the same thing. If I trust someone or something, that trust was earned. I trust because I experienced something through one of my five sense (I saw, heard, smelled, touched, or tasted). But people have faith even when they did not experience something with their five senses. I believe in Australia, not because I have faith that it is real, but because I have evidence, pictures, books, maps, videos, news reports, plane destinations, and even my own country, these all support my belief that Australia exists. I know that other places in the world exist, I know that the U.S. is not the only place in the world, therefore it is logical to assume that when people say Australia exists, it actually does. I don’t have evidence for God to exist, he did not earn my trust.
Scientists do NOT have faith in the Big Bang. They have evidence. The Big Bang is a scientific theory, and being such, there is a substantial amount of evidence to support it. Just because we don’t know what caused the Big Bang or what happened before it doesn’t mean that there is no answer or that it must lead to God. The answer is out there somewhere, we just don’t have it yet (and we might never, but that is fine. Science seeks to find asnwers, but it doesn’t just make stuff up when it can’t explain something).
At the end of your post you are basically asking the question “what if your wrong and God is real? What then? You risk loosing everything.” But what if YOU are wrong. What if the Muslims are right, or what if the Jews are right, arn’t you risking everything also? I like how Richard Dawkins answered this question. He said that if he died and went before God, the first thing he would ask is “which one are you?” the second question he would ask is “why did you try so hard to hide yourself?
If you want to get into this business let me get into it about man. Wicked, selfish, immortal creatures we are but with the help of God we can because a part of Him.
Man started this. Man ate the fruit and suffered because of it. We should not blame God for what we have done!
Hello Sam,
I have found that I have been arguing to much with you about certain topics. I will now withdraw not because I am scared or feel I have lost but because I feel that it is not right for me to do so.
God Bless,
Liam
Oh my goodness,
Liam, I had no idea you were debating with an athiest 9 months ago. Dude, I guess The Rejected was not a new thing for you. Huh?
AHH. You found my first debate. . . I am really embarrassed with that one. Then, I really didn’t know any apologetics, and my arguments were all bad. Looking back, his arguments were all simple… Actually that debate sparked my interest in apologetics, so, I guess it did some good. Btw, I also have had some other debates with people on YT, of which I regret, so when we had that talk with the Rejected, it wasn’t entirely new to me. I now try to avoid internet debates entirely since they are unproductive and really don’t get anywhere. 😛
There’s that. 😛
This topic relates to me so much right now! I recently got my atheist friend to attend a FCA meeting. She said that she doesn’t mind getting the “Jesus speech”, she just finds it hard to believe in something she can’t see.
Any advice on how to handle this?
Take your friend up to the top of a 30 floor building and ask them if they believe in gravity.
Ask her what it would take for her to believe it was God that she was seeing? Then ask her, if you did see all those things, would you belive then? I tell you what, you would let the world know what you saw, or you would think it was some David Copperfield stunt. Even people back then didn’t believe what they were seeing. But, if a man does do these things, I would expect his name to he around for atleast 2000 years and many more to come.
The last person I know of who claimed to be jesus was David koresh. Let’s see how quickly we forget him. Lol
But do all in the gentlest way you can. It is like touching then skin under a ripped open blister.
Hi, so I’m an atheist, I ran across this article while trying to find a quote I remember. Anyway, I decided to read this because it seemed interesting. So firstly I would just like to point out that the word “evidence” don’t take a “s” to pluralize. So you might want to correct where you wrote “evidences” because that is incorrect.
Secondly, you say there is plenty of evidence for the existence of your god specifically. I’m just wondering if you would like to elaborate on that at all? I would like to see the evidence that has led you to continue to believe.
I may be way out of line here; but, it seems to me that when you began to question why you believed in your god you just started to look for things that would reinforce what you already believe. For example, you might look at a cell and go “Wow, that’s really complex (an ambiguous word that really don’t mean anything) there is no way that could have not been created by an intelligent designer. That designer had to be the specific god I believe in; ergo, my god is real and the only god that exist.” If that is the case I would just like to point out that this is flawed thinking as, even if, something like a cell HAD to have a creator, that doesn’t mean it was your god or any god for that matter.
Just some food for thought, I’m being genuine here, if you have real evidence for the existence of ANY god I would really love to see it.
Hello. I’m not the author of the article, but I feel I would be able to address some of the points you raised.
On the point of looking to reinforce what you believed in. I believe there are 3 ways people might react to this, or a topic like this:
1) There would be those that might check with no intention of changing their thoughts regardless of what they were to find.
2) There are those who believe from personal experiences that heavily suggest the involvement of God, but at some point may not feel confident enough in what they had, as proof. As such, they look for evidence with neutral eyes and are ready to make changes in accordance with the truth of what they find.
3) Those who feel they’ve had a strong enough personal experience to assure themselves on the existence of God, and so, would engage in this for further confirmation and to gain tools by which those who were not yet Christian would be able to believe if they were told. If such evidence did not exist, then it calls the validity of the belief into question.
The instance you seem to have singled out would be referring to the first one, and hopefully, no one would actually perform this search with such a closed mindset. The second one stands tall as the best way to follow for the sake of uncovering/verifying truth, since we might lend ourselves to arbitrary personal validation unknowingly, by going with the third way. And in such a case, one cannot be accused of seeking to ignorantly reinforce a potential false belief when going with the second way, even with starting from a Christian background. Otherwise, how would they ever be able to verify anything when there’s no changing which they heard about first?
And, with the intelligent design point you made, yes it would not be enough to connect that to any specific God(s). But, wouldn’t you say, that anything with the capability to make such, considering it clearly was not made by anything we can see among us, would be deserving of a god status over us? It would still not be enough to point to anything specific, of course, but it gets the engine running to there potentially being more going on in the background. Yet, how would one be able to find such a thing out? Listening to what other people have to tell you would be no better than coming up with your own guesses as to what were going on. And so it would be that we alone would not be able to provide the answer. I say, that it would take the external force(s) reaching out to us in order for their existence to be provable to us. And if they were not to do so, then I guess the question would actually not be important. But, Christianity claims just that. But we cannot stop there with having found something that claims to fit the criteria of being external: investigation and subsequent scrutinizing would be required to see if said claims would actually hold up. If they were to hold up, then the question would be answered, and provided nothing contradictory, we would be at the mercy of the word of the one proven to be over us. It is from this that we get things like there just being one God, because the evidence has lined up with the initial claim and has left us with no reason to doubt from here that there is a single God over us when we are told so by said God himself. It might seem mindless but, familiarity with the actual subject matter would show the characteristics of a being at work in the form of God, and it displays a harmonious existence behind the things we take to be truth. The Bible itself encourages not taking whatever you hear at face value, and we find that, the things we are told in it, are not at all contradictory to the world we live in. But I think I might have said too much on this point.
On the matter of wanting actual evidence, I feel this would devolve if any evidence/group of evidence were to be singled out, and therefore over-focused on, in this format. Not to mention it would lend them to poor presentation to be described here. I urge you to seek out on your own, claimed evidence for the Christian faith and see how you feel it holds up from there. I do not provide a link or so, because that would be like closing your eyes against what you might find elsewhere and would potentially attach undue importance to whatever were listed specifically. You should be able to find such as you seek, easy enough, but if you still feel the need to ask, then I can suggest something.
Banji.
(Also, sorry if parts of this came out poorly presented/confusing, I lost my original comment to a network error and this is what I retyped up to substitute for the lost message that I could not recreate)
Hi Krystal,
I just happened upon this today and I do not know where your thoughts are at this point. I just wanted to say that our reasons for WHO God is, WHY we believe it and that He is the ONE TRUE GOD, is based on Faith…Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
If you seek with all your heart, you will find it.
Yours in Christ,
Georgia
Question: is this topic still valid and open for discussion?