R. WRITES: Do you think life exists on other planets? Can you back that up biblically? Scientifically?
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I don’t have a real scientific argument handy at the moment, but I myself think that other planets/solar systems exist to create the scenario for life to be supported here on earth, not to support life of their own.
I know it seems incredible to think that all of space exists for Earth, but it’s pretty awesome too.
It’s only a concept of mine at this point, but I thought I would go ahead and share it anyway, since this question came up. 🙂
well…. according to NPR News scientists are trying to develop a actual city for humans on Mars. It could take years but if that experiment works the answer will be offically yes. till then idk
Haha good point, I heard about that Elon Musk stuff too
Oh yeah, I heard they were trying to make it by like 2050 or something. Hopefully not much later than that or else I might not be able to see it ='( lol
That’s pretty much what I was thinking. If there is life on other planets, which I highly doubt, I don’t think it would be remotely like humans. More like some bug or plant.
Oh wow…. You just opened up ideas to me that I hadn’t even thought of; but you’re right! Considering how delicately balanced even just our solar system is (having recently studied Kepler’s Laws of Planetary Motion, I can readily attest to that) and also that life can most likely only exist on planets in the arm of a spiral galaxy (exactly where we are), it does look like God designed all this just for us.Which really makes me feel as microscopically small as an atom-but at the same time, more important than anything else (besides other humans, of course)
My feelings exactly, Angela! (Well put:) It’s a mindblowing thought, isn’t it?
No kidding.
I don’t have good reason to believe there is life on other planets, but I don’t have good reason to believe there isn’t. God is entirely capable of creating many other kinds of worlds and creatures if He wants to. It’s kind of fun to think about, but it isn’t something we should dwell on too long since there’s no way to know for sure what’s out there. I do know that people are the most important to God of all His creation because He actually died for us.
I recommend that you google Spike Psarris or view some of his videos on astronomy on you Tube here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AjSjIr8cso&list=PLebLAvrUbivbhGSqJE6sm8YOKXircRzib
He previously worked for NASA and present facts about our created solar system – and gives examples of how the media misrepresents scientific studies. Happy viewing 🙂
I totally agree with this AIG article: https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/alien-life/belief-alien-life-harmless/
Ahhh, another AIG fan!
YUS
By the way, I believe you’re getting extremely close to becoming second top commenter here… beware Sam!
(Where do you find the time?)
Haha, I honestly spend very little time on this stuff every day I’ve just been around since dirt =P
Oh.
Just wondering, do you have anything to say about the “debate” going on above? just wondering what you have to say as a calvinist theology nerd.
Ooooh a debate! *skims comments* ah I generally don’t debate Mormons because they’re like, specially trained to “convert” evangelicals and while I am a fairly experienced debater I just prefer to stay away from Mormons. =P Plus I don’t have much time, but I’m always whining about how little time I have so you know that already XD
Okay 🙂
It is still good to debate them though; even if you don’t “win” the debate, you still gain valuable information on their ideas and beliefs that can help you better tackle the next debate as well as understand where that are coming from.
I have almost no experience in the field of Mormonism; but, talking to Levi, I am learning a lot more about it and i think he is learning too.
Just a thought!
Lol, “specially trained”, that makes me feel pretty good but I think you’re giving us a little too much credit. =D And yeah, were usually a little bit.. *ahem*… Stubborn… when it comes to Jesus. Jesus is love, Jesus is life, XD
lol
Yes of course. Biblically I can say, “God, angels and demons can at any time be on other planets.” Next question.
If you don’t mind me asking, what Biblical support are you talking about here? Can you give me a specific verse? Thanks!
I am not trying to say you are wrong, just asking.
Hey Rachel. I actually meant it as an answer which did not address the original intent of the question at all. Kind of as a joke, or as a pretended misunderstanding of the questioner’s desired answer. I answered the “letter” of the question, but not the “spirit” or meaning behind it. Because I knew they were probably talking about physical beings, not spiritual ones. So if you are the asker, I apologize.
That being said, I believe my statement was still true. I was careful not to say that “God, angels and demons ARE on other planets,” but rather “can … be.” Of God, we know this, because He has the ability to be anywhere He chooses.
From the Gospels and certain statements which Christ made we know that angels and fallen angels were on earth when He was here in bodily form (He drove demons out, and He was attended by angels after being tempted by a fallen angel). There are other verses which support the fact that angels and demons are still on earth; I don’t think you and I disagree on this so I won’t added Scripture references.
Christ also said in Mathew 18:10 that the angels of children always see the face of His Father in heaven. How angels travel between God’s throne and earth (and what area is traveled through; this realm or another) I don’t pretend to know. In Daniel 10:11-13 the prophet is addressed by an angel that was sent to him. Elsewhere in the Old and New Testaments we read of angels who were sent by God to earth. I did not, by my statement, mean that angels and demons are camping out on different planets. But I merely meant to say that it is not a proven impossibility. I couldn’t think of any verses which conflict with it being possible, but I did not say that it is probable.
My strongest verse for my statement in regard to demons was Ephesians 2:2, “Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:” (KJV)
Whether spiritual beings are on other planets or not, we know from the Bible and experience that they are on ours.
Thank you for responding! Don’t worry, I did not ask the question, so I was not offended or anything. : )
I like how you approached the question of spiritual beings. From the perspective you gave I see how it definitely can be possible. Thanks for responding!
We were just discussing this on Revive! *Wonders whether R is someone from Revive*
My opinion is that we don’t have biblical evidence either way, but since our God is a creative God who made not only the earth and everything on it but also the angels, maybe there are other things that he made and we simply don’t know about them because they don’t pertain to us.
Interesting point, Olivia. That is a possibility.
I don’t think we will ever know for absolute certainty. After has been found on other planets in various forms so I guess there is some lofe in those molecules but idk.
That’s true, I don’t think it has ever been explicitly mentioned in the bible. But when Christ visited the Americas after his Resurrection, one of the things he told them was that other folds he had to visit. I don’t think he was talking about just the next country, I know he was talking about his other planets. With God, is it really plausible, since he has been, forever and ever since the beginning of time, that he would only have created enough people to fill this tiny planet? It really brings more meaning to the Atonement also, that while he was suffering in Gethsemane, he was not suffering for only every soul on earth, but every other person on every other planet he has ever made. Its so humbling. If you want to know more, The Book of Mormon gives some excellent history on what was happening in the Americas before, during his ministry, when he visited them, and the events afterwards. The Book of Moses is pretty interesting also
Okay. Thank you for taking the time to write a reply, I don’t have the time to go into a debate about this. I will say I don’t believe that the book of Mormon was inspired. I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Ok, I totally understand. But in case you ever doubt the claims that The Book of Mormon was made up, please research it with an open mind. It has changed the lives of so many people and brought so much love and peace to this world, just as the Bible does.
I agree with @TatianaWood:disqus on this one. The Book of Mormon was not inspired, neither did Jesus quote from it. That is why it is not included in the Bible. R. asked for Biblical support. The Book of Mormon is not a Biblical reference.
For my argument, it is very clear that Christ died once for all. (See Hebrews 10:10) There cannot be life on other planets because Christ would have to die for them too.
As for a scientific argument, everyone knows that the Earth is placed just the right distance away from the Sun to support life. If we were just a hair farther away from the sun we would freeze. If we were just a hair closer to the sun we would burn up. There cannot be life on other planets because they wouldn’t be able to survive with such conditions.
The Book Of Mormon is not just another account of what was happening in Jerusalem and the lands about, its the story of His church on an entirely different continent. In the first chapter it tells of a family who’s father, the leader of the Church in that area, was receiving death threats from the people since he was preaching repentance; he then had a vision where God instructed him to take his family and a couple others to a new land, the promised land. This was America. Jesus was only not able to quote from it because it was on a different continent. Even In the Book of Mormon, it is constantly giving references to the Bible. It is the account of the church in the Americas, their wars, and the resurrection and coming of Jesus, not of Jerusalem and the Middle East.
Also, I do believe that Christ died only once for all men. But while he was in Gethsemane, he suffered there not just for every son and daughter on Earth, but for every individual on every planet that was created. This is why I believe Jesus Christ was talking about His other planets when he said to His church in the Americas, “And verily, verily, I say unto you that I have other sheep, which are not of this land, neither of the land of Jerusalem, neither in any parts of that land round about whither I have been to minister”, (See Third Nephi, Chapter 16). He wasn’t just talking about different Christian civilization on Earth, but his other planets. Because he died only once for all men, that’s why I believe He visited every on of his planets, to give them a witness of their Savior and teach the fullness of the Gospel to them.
Just like He created our planet in perfect condition to sustain life, why could he not do the same for his others? He would care just as much for them as he would us. It’s unfair to think that we could be the only people to have a planet created perfectly for our needs.
The Book of Mormon is not a book to trust. Mormonism is a cult. Even if you believe the Book of Mormon, like I said earlier, R. was looking for Biblical support. You cannot keep posting about Third Nephi Chapter 16, which according to you speaks of other sheep. That is not Biblical.
As for the scientific argument you gave in response to mine, your’s makes no sense. It has already been proven that none of the other planets are in a position to sustain life. God did not make other planets to sustain life because He uniquely designed our planet for us. For there to be life on other planets, the planet would have to be in the exact same position as Earth. That is not so.
I don’t mean to sound rude, but I am just trying to point out some serious flaws in your argument.
P.S. The Bible contains more than just the books Matthew and Luke.
Haha, Yes I do know that, I meant that as just naming a few. Our “cult”(Thank you for that) does not only believe in the Book of Mormon, The entire name of the Book is literally The “Book of Mormon, Another(<–Emphasis Here) Testament of Jesus Christ", we regularly use the Bible in our meetings. The book was created to complement the Bible, to give another set of support to its teachings, not as a new religion! If you had actually read it, you would understand what I am talking about. Its difficult to listen to those who immediately discredit The Book of Mormon when they have likely not have read it with an open mind. They are not separate! Also, when you said the R. is only looking for Biblical support, not only did they not even mention that, but if they had, do you think they would try to shut my beliefs down when I am just trying to pose my own opinion from the teachings of BOTH the Book of Mormon and Bible.
As for my 'scientific' argument, I gave none. I gave only the things I have observed from the Bible and the Book of Mormon. I only stated that it is unreasonable to suggest that we are the only planet that was created to support all life that has been created since the beginning of time.
Sorry for intruding in your conversation, but I am rather interested by it. Though I am definitely on Rachel’s side, I must say that what you have to say is very interesting and you present your point of view in a clear and concise way.
I have done some research on the subject, as a theology fan, and I don’t think I could believe the Book of Mormon to be divinely inspired as the Bible is. I don’t have the time to present my arguments personally, but they are the same as those presented in this article: https://carm.org/biblical-response-to-mormons
Hope this is helpful, and I will gladly discuss this subject with you.
Sincerely,
The Bean
Soli Deo Gloria!
No please, any outside opinion would be appreciated. So I have been reading the article and the first thing that really popped out to me is how you believe we worship a false God… =| Really?
One God:
One of the biggest parts of when we preach the Gospel to people of other Christian faiths is that while their God is differently portayed, It is not false. God is first and foremost loving and wants all men to come unto him. This means that even though they may worship differently, they are still worshipping God, just not the way that we know to be true.
Jesus Christ:
Secondly, in our religion, we do not believe in the Trinity, we know that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are three separate Beings. We do not believe that God is a man, but that His Son, Christ, was sent to earth to atone for the sins of all men, and the Holy Spirit aided him in his ministry in converting the Jews. I can see why this can be confusing to people who believe in the trinity, but imagine you are someone who believes in three separate beings and this will be a lot simpler.
The Holy Spirit:
Finally, the Holy Spirit. When the article gave the example of, “Would a false Jesus send the true spirit.” Why is our God false, and yours true? They are the same person. We believe in the same God as you, just differently with the complete gospel. This could be easily flipped on other faiths, calling their God false and everything they believe in lies. No one would get anywhere with that approach, it is degrading and will immediately lead to a defensive attitude.
Sins & Repentance…
If you’ve read some articles on Mormonism (And please make sure that they were created by Mormons! As a Mormon, how good a job do you think I would do to tell you what Buddhists believe. Getting information from secondary sources are where most of the confusion around the Mormon religion is created) you will know that unlike the article states, we don’t believe that if we just believe and try to be obedient, we will be saved. We know Christ suffered and died for us, and that through sincere repentance, going to God with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, can we only be forgiven.
Our Priesthood
On the part about Jesus Christ being a high Priest forever, we totally agree with that. The only problem that I have is where it states that Mormons are wrong in believing that there can be more high Priests, and it lists a few scriptures but none of them support the statement that Jesus Christ is the only high Priest, the only address him being a high priest forever and ever. We believe that too, we also believe that until Jesus comes to earth for the second coming, we need High priests in the Church. It cannot complete its complete purpose without them. It also states that the priesthood is “transferable” this is wrong on so many levels. If that was true, the entire Christian church would be founded on only beliefs, because then according to the author who wrote the article, Jesus Christ would not have been able to transfer it to his apostles. =| Now with the apostasy, we do believe that when Christ was crucified there was an apostasy from the church and that those who carried the priesthood were killed. But when Joseph Smith received a visit from an angel, he was eventually able to restore the priesthood over the next few years.
The “Errors” Explained
1. As I said, we don’t believe that if we just believe and try to be obedient, we will be saved. We know Christ suffered and died for us, and that through sincere repentance, going to God with a broken heart and a contrite spirit in prayer, can we only be forgiven.
2. If he had only read the first book in the BOM, he would have known that before they went to the promised land, Lehi had sent his sons to get the brass plates from the ruler of the land (You should really read it, even with out a religious standpoint, its a very good story.)
3. Its pretty clear that in the BOM it always says circa 100 A.D. or some date. It usually never gives a 100% accurate date, just around the time it happened.
4.As we said, It has been revealed to the prophets and apostles of the church many times, that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are not one being, but three separate personages.
5. Where it says that Mosiah has a gift from God where King Benjamin is supposed to. If you read the scripture, it tells of just having the gift of Interpretation, which we believe many people can have that gift.
6. Bethlehem is in the area of Jerusalem, and since at that time all they had concerning where Jesus Christ was born was the brass plates which they got from Jerusalem, their knowledge concerning the matter was limited.
PS, please forgive any errors since this was kinda long and I may have missed some errors I made, 🙂
Interesting. When I sent the link, I was wondering how it would be taken as I knew that if I was a mormon and was told to read that article, I wouldn’t have liked it. Don’t get me wrong, I believe that many mormons are true Christians and are truly saved, same as I believe many self-proclaimed evangelical Christians aren’t. I believe that if you believe that Jesus is God, came to earth in a human form, took your sins unto Him and died that you may live eternally with Him, then you are saved, whether you are a mormon, calvinist, Jehova’s witness, arminian or catholic. But I know that many false teachers an teachings and many errors have crept into every church, and that is true for every one of them.
I was going to explain some more about what I believe, but it turns out Rachel believes the same thing. I’ve got other things to do, so I won’t take the time rewriting what Rachel just said.
I very well see that both of us are far from giving up our beliefs, and none of us will win. Debating is useless. The reason I continue on this discussion is that I’m thoroughly interested in knowing exactly what you mormon’s believe.
May God bless you,
The Bean
Ps. To anyone reading this, if I seem to be believing something biblically, or even logically, wrong, please point it out immediately.
Sorry. I deleted my comment as it could be misunderstood too easily (I’m not very eloquent late at night). I’ll rewrite it tomorrow after a good night’s sleep.
Hi Levi,
Sorry for taking so long. I had had trouble finding time as I had taken up work again and had little time to sleep, and I must be honest: I ended up forgetting about my promised answer. But now, I’ve got some time on my hands, and I will gladly continue this discussion if you’d like.
I can see that neither you or I is going to be won over to the other side of the argument. The reason I am continuing on this discussion is that I really am interested to know exactly what your beliefs are as a mormon. This is also an excellent way for me to prepare to witness to mormons in my opinion.
I appreciate your clear and concise answer to the article. Honestly, if I was a mormon and someone asked me to read that article, I wouldn’t have liked it. It wasn’t written for mormons but for christians who wanted to know more about mormonism. I’m sorry if I offended you by sharing that link.
What I wanted to say is that I do believe that some mormons are true christians saved by the blood of Jesus-Christ. I don’t believe that the Book of Mormon is truly divinely inspired though, and I hope and pray that these people would see what exactly is lies and what isn’t in what they’re taught. I believe that if the Book of Mormon was truly divinely inspired just like the Bible and intended to be used just as the Bible is, God would have made it much clearer to us that it is the case. I’ve been wondering, which do you use the most often, the BoM or the Bible in your church services? Are they both viewed and used with the same respect? What brought you to think that they are both on the same level? Something someone taught you, or a firm conviction that came from lots of studying of both?
First of all, I have not accused you of taking too scientific and religious approach. If that is the message you got, I am sorry. I am backing up my argument with Scripture and science.
The article @disqus_07LiKAru5N:disqus presented was a very good one. You said in your comment to him that Mormons do not believe in the Trinity like we do. You believe in three separate gods. That is exactly what the article said. Let me point out some serious flaws with that. Especially since you said, and I quote, “The book was created to complement the Bible, to give another set of support to its teachings, not as a new religion!”
1: The Bible clearly states (John 10:30 – I and my Father are one. 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.) that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, are one. (Also see Ephesians 4:5.) If the Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ (since you so strongly emphasized that last part : )) is truly a book that complements the Bible, why do you believe so obviously different in this area? If it is not creating a new religion, why is there a totally different theology presented?
2: If the Trinity is three separate gods, then who is our Lord and Master? Jesus died on the cross, so He should be our Master, right? Oh no, since there is God the Father who knows all and spoke the Earth into existence, we should make Him our Lord and Master. But wait, there is the Holy Spirit, who is the comforter (John 14:16) and bears witness of Jesus. Shouldn’t we worship Him?
See? This doesn’t get you anywhere. People could go on forever arguing which one should be our sole Lord and Master.
3: Briefly, you mentioned that you believe in one God. Doesn’t this just further prove my last point? (If you need more detail, please ask.)
There is also the issue of the Book of Mormon being accurate. If you studied a bit, you would realize that there are several books that are not included in the Bible that were written by godly men. Such books would include the Book of Enoch. These are ancient writings that are not believed as inspired for several reasons that I will not go into in depth for the sake of the length of this comment. Reasons such as the fact that Jesus never quoted from them. If the Book of Mormon was inspired, don’t you think there would be more evidence?
That is my argument. If you need more details on any of this, please ask.
1. Yes, I am familiar with that scripture. We believe that that was interpreted incorrectly. The Father, Jesus Christ, and The Holy Spirit are only one in purpose and mind; not literally one being. One reason we believe this is also find in the Bible, not just the Book of Mormon. When Jesus was baptized, do you remember when the Holy spirit descended in the form of a dove, and the Fathers spoke to the congregation saying, “This is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased.” Not only this, but when our church was reorganized in the 1800’s, both Jesus Christ and God appeared to Joseph Smith while he was praying to Him. And like I said, when Christ was murdered and taken from the earth, the full gospel was taken with him, and would not be given back till he found a worthy soul to reveal it to. You might be asking, Worthy? Why I say worthy, is because when Joseph Smith received the visit from God and Jesus, he was only 14! He had not yet formed a loyalty to just one Church, he was just trying to believe in God, therefore he had an open mind and was able to receive the message that the full gospel was not being taught.
2. Heavenly Father is our first an foremost God, Jesus Christ has reinforced this many times in the Bible. We worship God as our creator, and respect and worship Jesus as our Savior. They are separate beings with different roles to accomplish one goal: The Immortality and eternal life of man, this is why Jesus was crucified. So we too could be resurrected and repent for our sins and live with our Father again. So lets recap, Heavenly Father is our God, Jesus Christ is our Savior, and the Holy Spirit enables us to follow the gospel and choose the right.
3.Like I said, yes we do believe in one god. He is Heavenly Father. We only worship Jesus Christ as our Savior. We’re not Polytheists 🙂
As I said before, the book of Mormon is an inspired work for several reasons,
1. Some people have a misconception that the BOM was written by Joseph Smith. Not true. It was written by the Jews who were forced to flee from their land because of the wickedness of the people. They actually did have access to the Bible, so they weren’t just making it up as they went along. Joseph Smith only translated the BOM to English, since it was written in multiple dead languages.
2. All throughout the Book, it gives record of the appearances of angels and the direction of Jesus Christ after he had died and was able to speak with them. He himself visited them there and established the church in that area as well just as he did in Jerusalem (Only this time they didn’t try to kill him like they did). Although the church there was eventually destroyed by the native warrior tribes, they were given time to record all the things that Jesus had taught about the Church.
3. Even today, there are hundreds of thousands of examples of where someone who either is or has become completely religiously inactive, is given the BOM to read and they are almost immediately converted. And like it says in Psalm 19:7, the law of the Lord is perfect, and converts the soul. So basically we can only be converted because Jesus Christ and The Holy spirit witness truth to our soul. But the article The Bean gave, stated that our God is false. And a false God can not give the true spirit. If that were the case, then we would have no members. We would not ever have so many people converted to the gospel.
It is not true that Christ took the gospel with Him when He ascended into heaven. Matthew 28:18-20 tells us that Jesus Himself commanded the disciples to witness to “the uttermost parts of the earth.” He sent a comforter, the Holy Spirit, who helped them share the gospel more efficiently. (Acts 2:4)
Joseph Smith was not the one whom God gave the Gospel to. The Gospel never left. Jesus Christ commissioned all of us to go out into the world and preach the gospel. Mormonism is a cult that is wrong in their beliefs. Your religion does not make sense.
I am not trying to be rude. Please don’t take it that way. Also, I don’t want to continue this argument anymore as I see that your mind and heart have been blinded to the truth. I will pray for you. God bless you and have a wonderful day.
Numbers 6:24-26
Also, I encourage you to look at “Francis Chan and the Mormons – Missionaries came to my door.” It is a great video that I thoroughly agree with. Look at Francis Chan’s work. He is great.
Yes, but see, it was “created” by the founder of Mormonism (forgot his name all of a sudden) and anything it has in it that is not specifically mentioned in the Bible is false. I know the story goes that he found some gold tablets and translated them, later melting the tablets, but think about it. Wouldnt he WANT to show everyone the tablets he found as proof of his story? And anyway, what about Revelation 22 where it says that “anyone who adds to this book I {Jesus} will add the plagues mentioned in this book [Revelation]. So that doesnt really add any room for the Book of Mormon to go.
Please note I am not trying to be mean or rude or anything like that. One of the worst parts of typing is that we cannot add tones to our words; I am not being accusative or judgewmental, I am simply pointing out facts.
First off the “Creation”. He actually didn’t create the book. He just translated it from a version of Hebrew. It is a record of the Jews that traveled to america to escape persecution. Your quote, “anyone who adds to this book I {Jesus} will add the plagues mentioned in this book [Revelation]” I’ve read that before too and at first I was confused, but when I just looked at the entire title, The Book Of Mormon Another Testament Of Jesus Christ, it immediately cleared it up for me. The B.O.M isn’t just some book someone tried to add to the Bible, It is an entirely different book. It is a coincidence they have the same teachings in them. But this just reinforces to me that it really was divinely inspired.
Also, Joseph Smith (That’s his name) really did want to show people the golden plates, but he was given multiple revelations instructing him to not openly share what he found. Why? So one of the reasons is pretty obvious, these plates were made of GOLD. If people had heard that this mad had found a book made of gold, he likely would have been killed by a mob trying to steal the plates. Secondly, these plates were of eternal value. God would not let them be stolen. People actually tried to multiple times. So if Smith had not been inspired from God, he would have shown them to his peers immediately. You need to understand that he was tortured and eventually killed because of the plates, revelations, priesthood, and gospel he received. He had to have a massive amount of commitment to what he knew that could only have come from God.
Reading the title does not clear it up. You have added to the Bible and that is evident by the title. The word “another” does that.
Also, same teachings? I think not. What about Mormon’s ideas of God? Grandfather god? We will eventually become God? How does this line up with the Bible?
Hmm. I hadn’t heard this side of the story before, so this is all new to me. Please excuse me if I ask any seemingly dumb questions 🙂
So first let’s tackle the belief that the Jews crossed the Atlantic. How would they have done that? Jews are not overly well known for being great shipbuilders, and there was no land bridge of sorts. In fact, even the most advanced shipbuilders of the time could not construct such ships. Also, if they had indeed made it to America, why did Joseph Smith (Thanks for the name by the way) only find the tablets? Where are the traces of their settlement(s) that would by now have been uncovered? Why don’t the Native Americans have stories about a people that crossed the Atlantic well before Columbus? And where are the Jews now? Did they die out, or did they become natives themselves? Also, the Jews couldn’t simply vanish. Someone that stayed behind, or perhaps another civilization, would have known what they were doing, or at the very least there should be some record of either a group of missing Jews, or a shipload of strange people running from persecution. They would have had to leave some sort of record or evidence behind in the Old World, and yet no such document has come to light.
Next let’s look at the Book of Mormon. As you said, the full title is the “Book of Mormon; Another Testament of Jesus Christ”. I do see how Revelation would have been written after the Book of Mormon was supposedly documented, and therefore that verse does not apply. Its title and supposed date of writing do manage to be above reproach as far as adding to the Bible goes. (Emphasis on “supposed”; if it indeed was not written around that time, then it is directly counter with Rev.22) However, although I have not read this book personally, I understand that there are several things that conflict with the Bible’s teachings, such as that there are indeed three Gods, not one, and that we shall eventually become God ourselves. There is nothing in the Bible to support this; indeed, the Bible refutes all of these claims. So how does that all fit into the picture?
Thanks for taking the time to answer all of my questions!
No, thank you! I’ve always wanted to share my beliefs because I’ve heard there is a lot of confusion around Mormons. So first off, Joseph Smith, when he found the Golden Plates, found two tools called the Urim and Thummim. These were the tools used by the Jewish-American seers to translate ancient documents. And yes, you were right that they actually did eventually get killed. The lamanites (That’s what they called the natives) hated them because they believed that long ago they had somehow wronger their people, so over dozens of wars and a few millennia the entire Jewish civilization was destroyed. Now with the golden plates, he really never melted them down or anything, (I’ve heard that myth a few times), If i remember correctly they were taken by an angel to be protected in heaven. Joseph Smith did immediately tell his family what was going on, he was just instructed not to tell anyone other than who he was later allowed to. He only showed a few highly trusted people that God had allowed him to show the Golden Plates. And I believe we don’t think we will become God, just that in the eternity that we will live with Him, he will teach us everything he knows and maybe become AS him, not turn into him. As with God, If you read some of my earlier posts I mentioned how we believe that Heavenly Father is the only God, and we worship only him as such. We worship Jesus as our savior and the Holy Ghost as the comforter amd protector of all men, no matter their faith. Thanks for all your questions if you have any more please let me know! =)
P.S
@disqus_Bck6so9AeJ:disqus if you are just going to immediately discredit every single thing I try to share, please refrain from commenting. I am a member of the Mormon church so I think that I would know its teachings quite well. I started this as a spirutal discussion so we could both share our different beliefs and aslo clear up some misconceptions surrounding my Church, I don’t want it turned into an argument of accusing the other of worshiping the wrong God
I am sorry if I am coming off as rude or argumentative. As @PycroftiumAngel:disqus said, writing cannot convey our tone very well.
I am simply sharing my beliefs and trying to explain my doubts of your beliefs. If that is coming off as extremely argumentative then I am sincerely sorry. However, sharing my beliefs and questioning the accuracy of yours is not necessarily discrediting yours beliefs. I strongly disagree with your beliefs, but understanding what another belief system is will help me defend my faith more effectively.
I am simply trying to fully understand your beliefs, and as most people would do when being informed in this area, question the gaps. You can most definitely do the same with my beliefs as I am ready to defend my faith.
Thank you for (hopefully) understanding.
Thanks for the info!
I just saw one thing you didn’t mention (and with my huge post i know its hard to answer everything); What about other traces of their civilization? If Smith found the tablets, there should be an entire village at least to be uncovered. After all,at least in the beginning they probably built mud or wood houses similar to what they were used to back in Israel, and kept a lot of their traditions and “technology”, such as Jewish-style pottery, a temple or tabernacle, and traditions such as the Passover. So even if they were totally wiped out by the natives, we should still be able to find where they used to live, but I don’t think anything like that has been uncovered.
Also, they would have probably brought over animals for food, such as sheep or cows, but there are no American equivalents to those species other than the mountain goats of the Rockies,and the Rockies were probably too far for those sheep to travel all the way from the eastern seaboard. I know that’s a bit of a stretch (I really like to go over the tiny details don’t I), but they had to have some form of food that they brought over from Israel other than vegetables.(There are also no known American edible plants that are similar to the kind of vegetation you might find in Israel; so what kind of food did they bring?)
Also, there are no known writings or anything that prove that a group of Jews left the continent. None of the remaining Jews ever documented their leaving; and it was certainly an important enough event to be recorded. Other than the Book of Mormon, we have no proof that any of this happened;whereas with the Bible we have repeatedly uncovered evidence to support it, such as the civilization of the Hittites, among other important findings.
Unless there was no sin on that other world. There certainly wasn’t sin on earth before Adam bit that apple. Just a thought for to chew on.
Hmm. That’s an interesting thought, but I don’t think that’s possible. Simply because unless they are 100% like God and perfect in every way, that wouldn’t work. And because Bible says that no created being is like Him (1 Samuel 2:2, 1 Kings 8:23, Isaiah 46:9, Isaiah 45:5-6 and 1 Timothy 2:5 to name a few) so that alone makes that impossible. That would mean that these beings would even be above the angels because even they can fall to sin. ( Jude 1:6 and 2 Peter 2:4 )
What it really falls down to is this: Why would He make a perfect race and a race that’s prone to sin? That doesn’t make sense. And if they were perfect, why even make us? If He had just stuck with the perfect race Christ never have had to suffer at all. That would also mean that the God lied (which is impossible Titus 1:2, 1 Samuel 15:29 and John 17:17) because He said that every created being is prone to sin and they would fall under created beings. So, no matter which way you slice it that doesn’t make much sense and doesn’t line up with what the Bible says.
I never suggested they were a perfect race just maybe that they chose differently. If Eve had rejected the serpent’s lies or if Adam had not chosen to take that bite would our world not be completely different? Or do you think that being prone to sin automatically means that everyone falls? Because if you’re arguing that, Jesus was both fully man and fully God and yet he managed to resist temptation and not sin as a full man. This was to give us hope that we could also be tempted and resist?
Also God is outside of our constrains of time and place. If your argument is that Jesus only died once for the sins of all created beings what’s to say he didn’t die across multiple worlds at the same time?
I’m not saying there are definitely aliens out there. I’m not saying that I will defend this position to the grave. I just think that it’s very narrow to look at the universe and think that we are it. With an infinite God and a universe that we cannot even begin to comprehend all around us; is it so impossible to think that there may be life on another planet?
Nope. If Jesus came and died here on earth once and for all, wouldn’t He have to die for all the other races on other planets too? In that case, He didn’t die for them, so that means the Bible isn’t true. Case disclosed!
Not really. The Bible is a History of Earth and God’s interaction with man on Earth. Jesus is Savior of all men ( 1 Timothy 4:10 as in Human men.) He came and died, as a human man, for human men. There could well be other beings, that have not sinned, that are not even human infact. The universe is such a big place, we may never know.
But really, at the end of the day whether there is life on other planets doesn’t matter, we are called to live for God here on Earth.
Exactly.
Amen to that!
I kinda don’t see the point in God creating a species that have never sinned who live inside the universe. In that case, He would be creating people who are equal to himself, and we know God isn’t about that. All glory goes to him. I guess the answer to that would be angels? But their are not made in Gods image… this is really confusing. I guess some things will never be fully explained till we meet Him. It gets me excited!
They wouldn’t exactly be equal to God; I mean, we were never equal to God, and yet we were sinless before the Fall, weren’t we?
I think if God created another species that never sinned (not supporting or discrediting that theory, just noting), they would not be equal to God because they would not be omnipotent, eternal, omnipresent, omniscient, without beginning, or anywhere near as powerful as He is.
Well, we have no proof he did not die on other planets for other races. The Bible is a book written by man/narrated by God about God’s interaction with man. It does not go outside the experience of the writers or anything else God told us. Which leaves this area at a complete blank as far as the Bible is concerned.
Mind if I correct the part Races in my point of view?
There is only ONE human race and different Kinds of animals. so that solves the case of: Life on Other Planets.
What do you mean? Races isn’t a bad word; there are many races of human beings and that is not a bad thing. Other races on other planets; I suppose you could say species?
Of course Races isn’t a bad word, it’s just there is only one human race and other species of animals, species is only for animals. I would use kinds as the word for it instead of races of human
Hmm. I never really thought about it that way. You can say kinds if you like I suppose 🙂
Well, I would thank God for Creationists like Ken Ham.
Who is that?
He’s a well-known creationist scientist.
I noticed you when you liked comments i wrote.
Cool! Thanks for letting me know!
My website is at http://bit.ly/2h7fAuw
ok thx
He is founder and President of Answers In Genesis a website about defending your faith against other religions and philosophies. For example: Evolution, teaches that humans are nothing but animals and teaches many false stuff that insults our God.
O hey I know what Answers in Genesis is. Thanks for the explanation!
Your welcome.
WHAT! The Bible is 100% True! Believing the Bible is very important. I don’t know how you thought of the idea of it being false, but “As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD” (Joshua 24:15) no matter what! I believe that there is no other life on other planets except on Earth and only Earth! So actually the case is closed by these words!
Why I meant by that is that if aliens existed, then that would mean that the Bible isn’t true because it doesn’t mention aliens like, at all.
oh… forgive me for being angry. I didn’t understand.
The bible won’t mention it, because the Bible is a History of God’s interaction with man on Earth, so alien life forms on other planets wouldn’t have anything to do with that. I don’t personally believe in aliens, not ones that are meaningfully close anyway, but if there were I wouldn’t be that bothered.
Hmm. Other than Siah Humphrey’s case below (which makes a point) I do not have a definitive answer either way. However I think multiple dimensions might be possible. (OK yes I am one of those nerds that thinks it’s possible/knows it’s true/would really really love it to be true that there is a multiverse. I do have a really complex and odd theory on that actually.) In which case I suppose you could say there is life on other planets….
I can’t think of a specific Bible verse to back me up at the moment, but I would say that God created Earth uniquely for life, and that our unique situation is stressed by the absence of life anywhere else.
Do I believe that there is life on other planets or that there are other universes?
No. Just other aspects of the same universe, like the spiritual realm. However, eternity is to complex to understand.
I don’t believe that there is life on other planets, here are some reasons: 1.Genesis 1:1 says, “In the beginning, God created the heavens and THE EARTH.” just one earth. 2.What kind of materials are on other planets? either gas or rock. so here is a question for you, How would other life survive without food and water?
There is a whole lot I want to say in a few words, so instead I will just give you a link. 🙂 It is from Answers in Genesis:
https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/alien-life/life-on-other-planets/