rebelling against low expectations

The Nativity Story: In Theatres Now


The Nativity Story: In Theatres NowAfter watching The Nativity Story with our family we are pleased to report that it is a beautiful retelling of an old story — one that breathes life into familiar characters and births a powerful and lasting understanding of the true Christmas story in its’ viewers. Watching this film will be a Christmas tradition for our family.

The last film Alex and I recommended to our readers was Facing the Giants, and we can commend The Nativity Story just as enthusiastically. This is the kind of film we need to support. In the words of Dr. Albert Mohler:

“Hollywood has produced a major film with a national release that straightforwardly presents the central themes and events of the biblical accounts of Christ’s birth. We should not let that fact pass without notice.”

If at all possible, go see this movie. It has doubled our family’s appreciation and understanding of the circumstances surrounding Christ’s birth and has infused us with the true Christmas spirit. It should not be seen as a distraction from your Christmas preparation, but as a prerequisite.

ACTION STEPS: (1) Visit The Official Website for trailers, theatre locations, etc. (2) Go watch the movie and take your family and friends with you. (3) Use email and/or your blogs to promote this film to a wider audience. It must do much better in the box office in order to serve as another encouragement to filmmakers to produce wholesome material.

Official Website / Plugged In Online / Dr. Albert Mohler

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About the author

Alex and Brett Harris

are the co-founders of and co-authors of Do Hard Things and Start Here. They have a passion for God and for their generation. Their personal interests include politics, filmmaking, music, and basketball. They are both graduates of Patrick Henry College in Purcellville, Virginia.


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  • I saw this movie opening night and was pleasantly surprised by how accurate it was, and how good of quality it was. My dad took me and one of my sisters. We liked it so much, that we told our grandmother about it so she’s going to take me, my two sisters and my cousin. Who knows? I may even see it a third time. 😀 Everyone should see this movie!

  • I thought that the movie was pretty good also, but I was disappointed when I caught several unbiblical parts such as when the wise men were returning home they just stated that they thought it would be a good idea to keep Jesus’ birth a secret but in the Bible it says that they were warned in a dream not to go back to Herod. These inaccuracies wouldn’t deter me from going to see it again or recommending it to one of my Christian friends, but I feel sad that those who don’t know the real story will be getting an untrue account of it.

  • As with Emily, I found some bits that I felt weren’t as accurate as they could’ve been, or just weren’t needed! However, as a Christian, I thought that it was well-done and gave a new viewpoint of the very familiar Christmas story. One of my biggest concerns with this movie was that Mary was portrayed as rather moody. I can nearly imagine her singing “Mary’s Song”, yet many times she seemed to border on the sullen side, something that bothered me. Yes, there were other details that were not accurate, but seeing as this film was produced by Hollywood (I think) I’d say it’s a pretty good job!

  • Emily said: “I caught several unbiblical parts such as when the wise men were returning home they just stated that they thought it would be a good idea to keep Jesus’ birth a secret but in the Bible it says that they were warned in a dream not to go back to Herod.”

    I also found a few of these things a bit disconcerting…and, as Stephanie said, I felt that Mary was portrayed as a bit too moody, and less like the ONE woman in all of earth’s history who would get to give birth to the Messiah…HOWEVER, I also gained some deeper understanding, and different angles on things that I would not have thought of otherwise. Like: I never thought of it really, but technically, Mary COULD have been stoned for adultery! That was in the law.
    Also, I think my “favorite” part of the movie was the shepherds visiting Jesus. Shepherds were despised and looked down on in those days, yet God Himself made sure that they were the fist to visit the baby Jesus!

    I would recommend seeing it to anyone, just read the accounts of Jesus’ birth in Luke and Matthew before you go, so you can tell where they added Hollywood. However, despite that they inevitably had to add “Hollywood” to make the story a movie, I felt that they did a pretty applaudable job at sticking to the facts and making the story come alive!

  • I am sorry to say that I will not be attending the movie simply for the fact that the sixteen year-old actress Keisha Castle-Hughes, a Maori of New Zealand and Australia, has gloriously proclaimed that she is pregnant by her nineteen year-old boyfreind. When the director of the film learned about it, she praised her for her courage. One article that I read even paralleled her pregnancy out of wedlock to that of Mary’s.

    I know that many actresses and actors lead decadent lifestyles, but when they pride themselves in public for their sinfulness, we as Christians should not be supporting them in this by showing our support for their films. I may seem really harsh, but I think that God is likewise not pleased with this film. If Mary were alive today, I think it would probably make her sick to have one who delights in her fornication to be representing her in the portrayal of the most blessed event in history.

    May God’s will be done in it all, and may He give us the discernment to know what to do.

  • Your link to “Facing the Giants” leads to a WordPress Blog log-in page.
    I have a WordPress blog, but when I try and sign in, it won’t let me.
    I’m not sure what’s up with that link, but I just wanted to let you know.

  • I loved this movie! It really made Mary and Joseph into living breathing people instead someone I just read about. I felt anewed awe at the miracle of Jesus’ birth and thankfulness for His sacrifice!

    I wasn’t crazy about the portayal of the angel appearing to the sheperd, I wanted to see that great heavenly host! But beyond that I absolutely loved it!!

  • Emily, when one goes to see a movie, the goal isn’t to get to know the actors or the actresses, it’s to get to know the roles they play.

    Everyone sins–even you. Imagine what would happen if God decided not to use any sinners to further His Kingdom.

    NO ONE would be used by God!!! Keep in mind the fact that Mel Gibson–that guy that is always in the news for cussing out cops and bashing Jews–produced The Passion of The Christ.

    Should we all have boycotted that movie, too?

  • When I went to see the movie, the little things I noticed were not anything to get puffed up about. Like the wise men coming to Christ at his birth, instead of when he was near two years old, and yes, I missed the heavenly host!

    But the thing that really bothered me the most was when she entered the house and saw Joseph and her father talking, then her father told her she was to marry him. The smile was swept off her face. It shows next an almost tearful Mary being wedded, and after the ceremony running off outside. Later it gives a voice over of Mary while she’s working, thinking to herself, “Why do they make me marry a man I do not love?”

    In her times, she would have been waiting for this moment her entire life…this is how it was. It was unrealistic to put a Post-modern mindset into the mother of Christ—a loyal Jew who had been raised to expect this.

    We often forget the world is getting more evil, not the opposite.

    And I agree with Emily. Keisha started dating a nineteen year old when she was THIRTEEN! Now he’s 23 and she’s 16 and they’ve just decided that they are ready to have a baby. So obviously she’s had a sexual relationship with him.

    When I watched the movie, Keisha did not have that pureness I was looking for…I don’t know how to explain it…She just seemed empty. It was hard to believe Joseph married her because she was pure woman. Nobody can portray a pure spirit if it’s mared, not even Keisha.

  • While I have yet to see this movie, I’m going this comong Saturday, I was surprised at what one blogger wrote

    – I am sorry to say that I will not be attending the movie simply for the fact that the sixteen year-old actress Keisha Castle-Hughes, a Maori of New Zealand and Australia, has gloriously proclaimed that she is pregnant by her nineteen year-old boyfreind. When the director of the film learned about it, she praised her for her courage. One article that I read even paralleled her pregnancy out of wedlock to that of Mary’s. –

    I have a friend who has a beautiful daughter that was born out of wedlock, and while I don’t agree with her decision to have sex before marriage, I don’t think God would be very happy with me if I cut her out of my life by declaring her a sinner. (which would make me the biggest hypocrite ever.) While I understand Emily’s motives, I’m not sure I follow her logic. She won’t go see the movie because the actress is a sinner who embraces that sinful lifestyle… umm, okay, but doesn’t everyone at one point in their lives embrace sin? And what if you found out the voice of Ariel in “The little Mermaid” was voiced by a stripper? (she’s not – by the way) Are you honestly telling me you would never watch that movie again?

    That was a little harsh, and I apologize, I just think we need to remember to disapprove of the sin – not the sinner

  • Here’s a question for you guys….Did you see The Passion of the Christ? If you did, did you gain anything from watching it…and if you didn’t watch it what were your reasons? Personally I didn’t watch it because I do not like lots of blood and gore…I would have like to watch the story though…I just heard it was really gruesome. Anyway what are your thoughts?

  • Interesting to hear the discussion about the actress portraying Mary in the Nativity movie. It would be very rare to find a pure actress in Hollywood. Does this mean we ought not to watch any movies not produced, directed, and acted by Christians? Interesting thought, for which I don’t have the answer. But it seems to me that if we believe we ought not to watch a Bible story movie because of the actor’s personal impurity, even less should we watch a movie without a Biblical theme because the actors are also likely to be impure… or so the reasoning would go.

    Without condoning sexual impurity, may I add here that David was responsible for the conception of a baby outside of wedlock… and yet we still read the Psalms.

    Many of the classical composers led unwholesome personal lives; where can we draw the line?

    Anyway, I’m just thinking through my fingers here. Hesitation and godly caution are always healthy. We can’t go randomly welcoming impurity just because it appeals to our emotions…

    I’d love to know what conclusions you all come up with.

    On a more personal note, my mother and sister watched this movie and were greatly blessed by it.

  • I didn’t watch it because it was way too gruesome. I don’t do torture scenes so I did not see it and do not plan to.

  • I did watch the Passion of the Christ, and I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone. Though it was about Jesus’ suffering, the gospel message was omitted. Praise the Lord for the many people who were saved, and for the christians who claim to have been brought closer to their Savior- God can use anything to bring people to himself. However, all it was was a Roman crucifiction (lots of blood and gore); the gospel message was nowhere.

    As for the Nativity Story, I won’t be seeing it. I totally agree with Emily and Lucy, when a actor or actress is proud of (and publicly proclaims their sin) it then becomes our choice to support them or not. With knowledge comes responsibillity. As christians, we have a responsibillity to lift up God’s standards. Whether we like it or not, the world is watching us to see if we obey the Lord we claim to love. Yes, all of us are sinners, but when a person embraces and publicly proclaims his sin- making it seem right- we have a duty to stand for what we believe. Many of us have friends with children born out of wedlock. Do we shun them? Well, I believe that depends on what their heart attitude is like. Have they confessed and tured from their sin of immorality?

  • “Here’s a question for you guys….Did you see The Passion of the Christ? If you did, did you gain anything from watching it…and if you didn’t watch it what were your reasons? Personally I didn’t watch it because I do not like lots of blood and gore…I would have like to watch the story though…I just heard it was really gruesome. Anyway what are your thoughts?”

    The Passion of the Christ was good and luckily I think it was aimed more at non-Christians. It got people wondering who Jesus was and why he would go through all that without loosing it. So as far as omitting the gospel message, yes it did but more importantly it got people to ask questions about it. Granted the film was very gritty I actually didn’t think it was that gory when compared to most R films I’ve seen such as Braveheart or Saving Private Ryan, but it still deserved the R rating.

  • Ok seriously everyone saying “I’m not going to watch this because the actors sinned and were proud!”

    We don’t know the whole story. And how many movies do you watch where you know all the details of the actors’ lives?

    You’ve got to be kidding me! How do you know that she wasn’t devastated and regretful of her sins after she found out she was pregnant, but decided to keep the baby? Would you rather her have opted for an abortion so as to appear to be perfect like Mary? I think not.

    Take a look in the mirror. You’re a sinner, too.

  • I’m not saying I was looking down at the actors… Just that their acting left something to be desired. I’m in no place to judge others.

    Anyway, it’s a little risky making movies about this kind of thing. In the end, the bible is the only thing we can stand on.

    And don’t foreget…God-hates-sinners. That message is all through the bible. He dosen’t have these warm, mushy feelings for Keisha. Only when we make Christ our savior do we get forgivenss.

  • Just for the record, I don’t background-check every actor or actress I see in a movie. However, if I do find out (through the news or other sources) then I have become accountable. Keisha may have felt regret, but she has never openly said so (as she did when she got pregnant). Only God can judge the heart.

  • I could say so much about this movie. I am not here to say that it is a wonderful movie, nor am I here to say that I agree with the creation of it. Rather, I am here to show you that Scripture clearly condemns it.

    The Second Commandment is “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or the likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them not serve them, for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquities of the fathers, unto the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.”

    If this commandment is applicable to all men (which it is), then this movie is against the teaching of this commandment. We cannot, as men, created an image of God that can truly express His glory. Especially if we are using an image based on humans. Even though Christ was in a human form, He was 100% God, and 100% man. Making an image of Christ is to disobey this commandment.

    Also, for an example that everyone might understand, I have a story to tell. A married woman went on a woman’s retreat with her friends. She forgot to bring a picture of her husband, so she decided to use a picture of a random man from the internet to use. She put it in her wallet. When one of her friends asked her who the man was, she replied, “I don’t know. I am just using it to remind me of my husband.” How would her husband have felt about what she had done? He most certainly would have been angry with her.

    With all of the images of God and Christ around, I always ask myself, “How do they know what he looks like?” Making an image of Christ is like using a picture of another man to worship Him.

    All I am trying to do is show that what Hollywood did with ‘The Passion of the Christ’, and most recently, ‘The Nativity Story’, are complete lies. Alex and Brett, you may remove this comment if you so desire, but I hope that the Scriptures are first and foremost in your reasoning for removing this comment.

    In Christ,


  • Just got back a bit ago from seeing this movie…It wasn’t perfect, but it was very good. My family felt it gave a good picture of how life would of been during that time for the common people. I also like how they portrayed the shepherds.

  • I went and saw it yesterday! I enjoyed it a lot and liked how they brought out some of the things we don’t really think of when we celebrate Christmas. It’s amazing how much God was doing and working together, and I thought this was a pretty good portrayal of the story.

  • “And don’t foreget…God-hates-sinners. That message is all through the bible. He dosen’t have these warm, mushy feelings for Keisha. Only when we make Christ our savior do we get forgivenss.”
    Whoa, Lucy. “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son…” Did he love us before or after we were forgiven? Does he only love Christians? Why does he invite sinners then? With much love and respect, you need to examine your personal image of God. Remember Jesus- he ate with sinners, healed sinners, lived with a bunch of sinners. And he loved them enough to die. God wants us to come to repentance, and I agree that if Keisha continues in her life of sin she will face the consequences. But I strongly disagree that God hates her. I believe that he loves her every bit as much as he does me. And my sin (not me) is every bit as loathsome in God’s sight as hers.

    I was disappointed to hear of her pregnancy. It’s sad and ironic. But there’s a reason these people are called actors and actresses. They don’t have to be typecast in order to do a good job playing a role. Meaning she doesn’t have to be a virgin to play one, people don’t have to be straight to act like it, and vice versa. This may be why Christian-produced movies tend to be so (brace yourself, I’m sorry!) BAD. They only cast Christians, who are, sadly, often less competant than a Hollywood pro. I really wish it didn’t have to be that way- having to choose between a morally good cast and an actually good movie.

    The Nativity Story wasn’t perfect. They arranged some parts to make it flow better, and changed some small, non life-threatening, details. (Like the Wise Men deciding on their own, instead of having an angel tell them. The outcome was the same-they didn’t report to Herod.) But I admired the spirit, and the historical context made this great story become so much more real in my mind.

  • Matt: Don’t worry, we won’t delete your comment. As I’ve said before, I really appreciate your commitment to Scripture, even though I disagree with your application in this particular case.

  • Dear Alex,

    I used to think it was okay to make images, movies and pictures of God. But then my pastor challenged me one day to submit to the authority of God’s Word on the matter of God’s image. Below are some of the things I studied.

    I challenge you to demonstrate from Scripture where God ever condones or ever encourages any image to be made of Him.

    Always be Biblical and let every thought be taken captive and submitted to the Authority of God…

    Thanks for challenging me to do the hard things…..

    Westminster Larger Catechism.

    Q109: What are the sins forbidden in the second commandment?

    A109: The sins forbidden in the second commandment are, all devising,[1] counseling,[2] commanding,[3] using,[4] and anywise approving, any religious worship not instituted by God himself;[5] tolerating a false religion;[6] the making any representation of God, of all or of any of the three persons, either inwardly in our mind, or outwardly in any kind of image or likeness of any creature whatsoever;[7] all worshiping of it,[8] or God in it or by it;[9] the making of any representation of feigned deities,[10] and all worship of them, or service belonging to them;[11] all superstitious devices,[12] corrupting the worship of God,[13] adding to it, or taking from it,[14] whether invented and taken up of ourselves,[15] or received by tradition from others,[16] though under the title of antiquity,[17] custom,[18] devotion,[19] good intent, or any other pretense whatsoever;[20] simony;[21] sacrilege;[22] all neglect,[23] contempt,[24] hindering,[25] and opposing the worship and ordinances which God hath appointed.[26]

    1. Num. 15:39
    2. Deut. 13:6-8
    3. Hosea 5:11; Micah 6:16
    4. I Kings 11:33; 12:33
    5. Deut. 12:30-32
    6. Deut. 13:6-12; Zech. 13:2-3; Rev. 2:2, 14-15, 20, Rev. 17:12, 16-17
    7. Deut. 4:15-19; Acts 17:29; Rom. 1:21-23, 25
    8. Dan. 3:18; Gal. 4:8
    9. Exod. 32:5
    10. Exod. 32:8
    11. I Kings 18:26, 28; Isa. 65:11
    12. Acts 17:22; Col. 2:21-23
    13. Mal. 1:7-8, 14
    14. Deut. 4:2
    15. Psa. 106:39
    16. Matt. 15:9
    17. I Peter 1:18
    18. Jer. 44:17
    19. Isa. 65:3-5; Gal. 1:13-14
    20. I Sam. 13:11-12; 15:21
    21. Acts 8:18
    22. Rom. 2:22; Mal. 3:8
    23. Exod. 4:24-26
    24. Matt. 22:5; Mal. 1:7, 13
    25. Matt. 23:13
    26. Acts 13:44-45; I Thess. 2:15-16

    Westminster Shorter Catechism

    Q49: Which is the Second Commandment?

    A49: The Second Commandment is, Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth, thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love Me, and keep my commandments.[1]

    1. Exod. 20:3-6

    Q50: What is required in the Second Commandment?

    A50: The Second Commandment requireth the receiving, observing,[1] and keeping pure and entire, all such religious worship and ordinances as God hath appointed in His Word.[2]

    1. Deut. 32:46; Matt. 28:20
    2. Deut. 12:32

    Q51: What is forbidden in the Second Commandment?

    A51: The Second Commandment forbiddeth the worshipping of God by images,[1] or any other way not appointed in His Word.[2]

    1. Deut. 4:15-16
    2. Col. 2:18

    Q52: What are the reasons annexed to the Second Commandment?

    A52: The reasons annexed to the Second Commandment are, God’s sovereignty over us,[2] his propriety in us,[2] and the zeal He hath to His own worship.[3]

    1. Psa. 95:2-3
    2. Psa. 45:11
    3. Exod. 34:14

    The Heidelberg Catechism,
    Q96: What does God require in the second Commandment?

    A96: That we in no way make any image of God,[1] nor worship Him in any other way than He has commanded us in His Word.[2]

    1. Deut. 4:15-19; Isa. 40:18, 25; Rom. 1:22-24; Acts 17:29
    2. I Sam. 15:23; Deut. 4:23-24; 12:30-32; Matt. 15:9; John 4:24

    Q97: May we not make any image at all?

    A97: God may not and cannot be imaged in any way; as for creatures, though they may indeed be imaged, yet God forbids the making or keeping of any likeness of them, either to worship them or to serve God by them.[1]

    1. Exod. 23:24-25; 34:13-14; Deut. 7:5; 12:3; 16:22; II Kings 18:4; John 1:18

    Q98: But may not pictures be tolerated in churches as books for the people?

    A98: No, for we should not be wiser than God, who will not have His people taught by dumb idols,[1] but by the lively preaching of His Word.[2]

    1. Jer. 10:8; Hab. 2:18-19
    2. II Peter 1:19; II Tim. 3:16-17; Rom. 10:17

    The Second Helvetic Confession
    Chapter IV
    Of Idols or Images of God, Christ and The Saints
    Images of God. Since God as Spirit is in essence invisible and immense, he cannot really be expressed by any art or image. For this reason we have no fear pronouncing with Scripture that images of God are mere lies. Therefore we reject not only the idols of the Gentiles, but also the images of Christians. Although Christ assumed human nature, yet he did not on that account assume it in order to provide a model for carvers and painters. He denied that he had come to abolish the law and the prophets (Matt. 5:17). But images are forbidden by the law and the prophets (Deut. 4:15; Isa. 44:9). He denied that his bodily presence would be profitable for the Church, and promised that he would be near us by his Spirit forever (John 16:7). Who, therefore, would believe that a shadow or likeness of his body would contribute any benefit to the pious? (II Cor. 5:5). Since he abides in us by his Spirit, we are therefore the temple of God (II Cor. 3:16). But what agreement has the temple of God with idols? (II Cor. 6:16).

  • Howard: Thank you for that, Howard. If you are interested, I can email you the post I made on the Rebelution Forum outlining my position on the matter. I think it’s a bit too long to be reproduced here.

  • Dear Alex,

    Please send your position. My Dad does not care for most of these kinds of blogs but has given me the okay on this one. He likes how you challenge boys to be men.


  • Alex,

    I read your post on the second commandment.

    I still challenge you to demonstrate from Scripture where God ever condones or ever encourages any image to be made of Him, for any reason.

    The Second Helvetic Confession
    Chapter IV
    Of Idols or Images of God, Christ and The Saints
    Images of God. Since God as Spirit is in essence invisible and immense, he cannot really be expressed by any art or image. For this reason we have no fear pronouncing with Scripture that images of God are mere lies. Therefore we reject not only the idols of the Gentiles, but also the images of Christians. Although Christ assumed human nature, yet he did not on that account assume it in order to provide a model for carvers and painters. He denied that he had come to abolish the law and the prophets (Matt. 5:17). But images are forbidden by the law and the prophets (Deut. 4:15; Isa. 44:9). He denied that his bodily presence would be profitable for the Church, and promised that he would be near us by his Spirit forever (John 16:7). Who, therefore, would believe that a shadow or likeness of his body would contribute any benefit to the pious? (II Cor. 5:5). Since he abides in us by his Spirit, we are therefore the temple of God (II Cor. 3:16). But what agreement has the temple of God with idols? (II Cor. 6:16).

  • Aryah…

    I encourage you to read the book of Psalms, it’s full of verses about how much God hates sinners. Verses that say that He could knock the teeth of sinners down their throat, He hates them so much.

    ‘When God so loved the world’ —–When God so loved the world to the extent that he gave them a chance to repent.. He loved the future Christians enough to send His Son.
    To say that God loves sinners is against bible doctrine.

    Have you ever thought about the fraise, ‘The fear of the LORD is the beginning wisdom’? What do you think the fear of the Lord is? From what I’ve heard in the bible, I’m afraid of God. No more do I see this repentant Father bailing me out over and over… I see GOD. And I’m afraid of Him. He is so powerful and good, that I am nothing. How could He love me? A creature so full of sin that it is my nature to do so?

    God hates sin, my very nature is sin.

    Do you fear God Aryah? Do you really?

    He loves me because I have accepted His free gift of mercy; Jesus. When the Holy Spirit came to me, He saw Jesus, His Son, reflected in me, and He loved me. When we accept Christ, He sees Jesus. We have no power to stop sinning, God is the only reason we can because He works in us through Christ. We can not produce a single good thought action or word, it’s all the Holy Spirit.

    I can understand if Alex or Brett would choose not to let me post this, it might spark a lot of things. But this is were God has lead me to stand. I have the gift of prophecy, and I know this is what He wants me to stand on.


  • Howard: Thanks for taking the time to read my post, brother. As you know, I explained there (with Scriptural support) why I do not believe the Second Commandment forbids visual or mental depictions of Christ. I also explained where I do see them being a problem. I honestly don’t see there being anything more for me to say at this point. However, if you’d like to submit something more for me to consider, in light of what I’ve already explained, please feel free to email me.

    Lucy: It is true that God loves His children and hates the wicked. At the same time, I think it is highly arrogant of us to presume that we can tell the difference. We do know that God hates sin. We also know that His grace is meant to lead sinners to repentance. However, we do not know to whom God will grant repentance. Christ died, in love, for all of us—while we were yet sinners.

  • Dear Alex,

    What Lucy says is quite scriptural, you cannot deny this. But I would like to say that yes, we as Christians are not to arrogantly proclaim this fact about God to those who are not saved, and I do not think that Lucy would ever do this.

    Lucy is simply saying that because God does hate the doers of iniquity, those whose sin is not covered by the blood of Christ, we Christians are not to associate ourselves and our deeds with those of the world. God is displeased when light associates with the darkness. The wicked can do great things, yes, but we must be highly discerning as to what we praise them for doing.

    The Nativity Story was made for the money that the producers new they could get from the thousands and thousands of Christians around the world such as you and I. Do you really think that they did it to spread the gospel message? The world smiles when they can get the Christian dollars in their grasp, and this is exactly why it was made.

    I must also say that Howard’s argument is also very biblical. I really don’t like to read of Jesus in the Bible and picture him as one of many long-haired hippies, which is what most of the images look like. There is a reason why we do not have any historical descriptions or pictures of Christ apart from the fact that He was not comely to look upon. We don’t even have any artifacts of His, not one single object even related to Him. I would think that these facts would make it quite obvious that God did not intend us to have any picture or object to plague our brains with questions of how He may have looked. Personally, I really enjoy how in Ben Hur, Jesus face is never shown.

    Nevertheless, these things should be pondered seriously. I highly doubt if anyone will be drawn to the Lord through this movie, The Nativity Story, but God does work in mysterious ways. In the long run, there are far more edifying things than supporting a Hollywood movie, much less the theatres they are shown in. God’s will be done.

    God bless you Alex, and I don’t want to sound too judgmental; you have probably already considered these things (smile).

    Thankyou very much for hearing me out!

  • We generally do not agree with the physical portraying of a person in the Godhead, but we would like to bring up one other point. While we believe that something may have great impact regardless of the motives behind its creation, we question the effect this movie has on Christians and unbelievers. We find it hard to credit that unbelievers would derive any benefit from this film other than possibly leaving with the impression that the characters seemed to be real historical figures. However, a general impression rarely works a change in someone’s life, especially as fictional characters are realized on screen in nearly every movie. We are aware that Christians have professed being blessed by the film in that the characters were brought to life before their eyes, allowing them to gain a deeper appreciation of the nativity story. We do not doubt this; we only fear thinking that a movie or any other medium can give us a dimension of appreciation that we do not find in the only revealed Word of God. To use the Westminster Larger Catechism, “the Scriptures manifest themselves to be the word of God, by their majesty and purity, by the consent of all the parts, and the scope of the whole, which is to give all glory to God; by their light and power to convince and convert sinners, to comfort and build up believers unto salvation: but the Spirit of God, bearing witness by and with the Scriptures, is alone able fully to persuade it that they are the very word of God.” The movie “The Nativity Story” has neither divine power nor authorization, and thus does not have divine majesty; certainly is not completely pure nor lacking in errors or inconsistencies; has a very narrow scope indeed; and, since it is not a means of grace, is not ordained as a primary outlet for the working of the Spirit. Bear in mind that we have not seen “The Nativity”, and we think that it is largely better than most Hollywood films. Also we believe that if watched with discretion and care to perceive its errors, it may indeed be a blessing, at least insofar as it provokes God-honoring conversation and meditation upon Scripture itself.

  • I saw ‘The Nativity’ this past weekend. I thought the film had a strong first and third act, but the second act seemed to lack the epic feel that the commercials had implied. There were also some disappointing errors so I would definitely recommend reading Matthew and Luke’s accounts of Christ’s birth before showing up at the theater. I will say though that the film was definitely thought-provoking and it was worth seeing in theaters; it just wasn’t what the commercials said it would be.
    I would also like to recommend ‘Unidentified’ if anyone’s looking for good Christian films to watch. It’s written, directed and produced by Rich Christiano (‘Time Changer’) and is an extremely insightful, suspenseful and interesting look at UFO’s. It’s a great witnessing tool to use with both unbelievers and Christians who believe in life on other planets.

  • Gracie: Because Satan delights in schism.
    On the God-hates-sinners debate: God does not hate any particular sin more than the rest. I am a sinner deserving of His wrath whether I murder a child, have a baby out of wedlock, or tell a tiny fib that seems to be harmless. If God hates sinners, that would mean He hates everyone, even His children, because they are still sinners. Furthermore, think about Paul. As Saul, he committed heinous acts against God, yet God nearly forced him to salvation and then used him to further His name in incredible ways. Not to mention the fact that He wrote almost half the New Testament through Paul. Yes, God hates sin, but He does not hate sinners; He has chosen to give them a chance at change. He does not want us to cringe in fear at Him; He wants us to love Him because He loves us more than we can ever imagine. It is interesting to note that fear of an angry God is at least part of what drove Martin Luther to start a Reformation, which, unfortunately, was not very peaceful. Please do not let this debate become a major division among us.

  • Wow…I guess I was right, this did spark a lot of things. At first I regretted I ever brought it up. But now…When you touch on sensitive subjects, you really get to know other people’s viewpoints, what they truly believe in.

    When Alex told me I was arrogant, I grew worried. I prayed to God to let me know if I really was being arrogant, or maybe I was misinterpreted, or people just didn’t like what I had to say. He let me know that I had not gone out of His will. To say the least, I was relieved. With God’s stamp of approval, I can’t go wrong. (I’m not being self-righteous here, guys. These are just facts. I don’t view myself as ‘favored’. I don’t believe God has warm, mushy feelings for me either. I am only a sinner that has asked for forgiveness.) The problem was my reply. I had half hearted hopes that someone would come to my defense.

    When I read Emily’s post, I must confess rather sheepishly, I thought maybe she was an angel. She explained everything so graciously and to the point. God once again answered my prayers.

    Ach, what a mess. Anyway…Mr. Alex Harris, thank you for giving me your honest opinion, Christians would not grow without correction, so I try to welcome it. This experience has helped me grow a little, letting me know were I stand in my faith and what I believe in. I hope you don’t see me as a problem, a young, self-righteous girl. But when God tells me something, it doesn’t matter who tells me I’m wrong or out of place…I will not back down. I am an intolerant Girl in a tolerant age. People have given me flack for not accepting others beliefs and being at peace with what’s right for me. I believe there is only one right and that it is set by God, for everybody, and that it is spoken in the bible.. And like Emily said, I would not arrogantly proclaim this to an unbeliever, I am speaking to a Christian crowd.

    And I believe in showing love to sinners by the bible’s definition. (1 Cor. 13) Not Webster’s.

    And Alex, I respect you and your brother very much, and think you have done a lot of good with this blog. You are two, decent, reliable young men in a world that worships sin. Thanks.

    Thank you for hearing me out.


  • On an entirely different note, has anyone seen “One Night With the King”? Would you recommend it? I’ve read Plugged In’s review and I’ve always loved the story of Esther, so I hope to see this one soon.

  • Lucy,

    God loves His children very very much. I’m not exactly sure what you mean by “warm, mushy feelings” but God loves us more than we can imagine (see Romans 8:37-39- this is one of the may passages that talk about God’s great love for us).

    God does hate sin, but He loves sinners enough to desire that even the wicked come to repentance. In 2 Peter 3, when Peter is talking about the Day of the Lord, he reminds the recipients of His letter that God is patient, wanting us to come to repentance (vs.9).

    One grave mistake we make when thinking of and talking about God is to give God only certain attributes. It is a terrible mistake and is basically created our own god to serve. God is a just God, one who should be feared. But He is also an extremely loving God, loving more than any of us could ever understand or know. And there are more attributes of God than just these! He loves His children and hates the wicked, yes. But He loves even the wicked enough that He sent His Son to die for evil mankind. These attributes all mingle together perfectly in God, and we cannot even understand Him, because He is so great.

    And we also should remember that He chose us; we did not choose Him. He led us to repentance for His glory and because of His love. It was nothing that we did. Yes, there is free will, but we must realize that we cannot know God or love Him unless He works in our hearts and unless He wills it. I am as wicked as anyone. And what matters more to Him than anything is the heart.

    When we hear about people who have sinned in particular ways (I’m particularly referring to celebrity gossip), we should pray for them instead of judging them. It is much more important that people hear the Gospel than avoid a particular sin. And we should never gloat! The Gospel must always come first. The Gospel says that we are all sinners, not deserving God’s grace. Yet out of his indescribable love for us, God sent His Son, fully God and fully man to live the perfect life that we cannot live, to die the death that we deserve, and to rise again, giving us His Spirit so that we might be sanctified. It does not matter if I avoid committing adultery if I do not have the Gospel- I will still go to Hell. I’m not saying that God has chosen everyone and that everyone will go to Heaven; those who do not accept Christ will go to Hell. But God does not fail to give everyone a chance to repent. Conversations about free-will and God’s will can get tangled pretty quickly, so I will stop there. I don’t feel that I can explain it well enough, or even that I understand it completely. So much of it is a matter of faith.

    In this discussion, no one has called you arrogant, and I don’t want to cause a mean debate. I also don’t want you to think that I am “chiding” you. But when discussing issues that have to do with God’s chosen ones, His children, there is always a tendency to become arrogant (as Alex graciously reminded us). We must realize that it is ALL God’s grace and not our own. If I am wrong in any of this, please let me know.

    Your sister in Christ,

  • I’m excited to see it. I also read that the reason the Magi were portrayed at the manger was for film editing purposes only, not out of ignorance. While I’m a stickler for historical (and especially Biblical) accuracy, I think that’s almost excusable. I’ll put away my tar and feathers.

    I have two friends who became pregnant out of wedlock. I don’t like it. I think it’s a horrible mistake they made, but you know what? They’re my friends, and one is my sister in Christ.
    Should I refuse to have anything to do with them? Will it ruin my testimony if I associate with them? Somehow I don’t think that’s quite the case. 🙂 In fact, it seems like it would be beneficial to my testimony to reach out to my friends with compassion and tenderness.

    Jesus Himself, while still condemning the sin, was not above forgiving and showing mercy to an adulterous woman.

    Yes, it is really very sad that Ms. Castle-Hughes became pregnant out of wedlock. Yes, it’s very wrong of her to be proud of it. I completely agree with that. But it’s well to remember that we are… that I am… the worst of sinners. Sometimes I feel that, compared to myself, Ms. Castle-Hughes is a very saint among women. The only difference between herself and me is that I have the saving blood of Jesus Christ on my side. She has no such hope.

    It’s been really amazing reading y’all’s comments. I feel like such an inexperienced, callow little girl. 🙂

  • I really want to participate in the sub-discussion on here but I would probably be redundant considering what everyone else has already said. Let’s just say that I disagree that God hates sinners. He hates the sin and the wickedness. It’s true that we are enemies of God until we accept His gift of salvation, but we are told to love our enemies–do we think God does any less? He loves people. They are His creation. What He creates is good. And we happen to be created in His image.
    Like I said, I don’t want to be redundant, I just wanted to point out where I stand.
    As for the whole image thing, I did not go to the Passion with the idea of worshipping the man who portrayed Jesus. I did not drop my jaw in awe of the baby that was used in The Nativity Story to portray the infant Jesus. I was not worshipping the “image” and so I don’t think it was wrong. I don’t think either movie was asking anybody to worship the actors. I felt no conviction for looking at the person chosen to portray Jesus by speaking His words or by laying in a manger. I was okay with that.

    As for the movie, I enjoyed what it said about Joseph very much. I’ve always tacked him on at the end of the story in my mind. His character was played in a way that made me think more about what it must have been like for him. The dream sequence was pretty awesome, I thought. In the movie he has this great quote, “I wonder, will I be able to teach Him anything?” I loved that. I was disappointed by the angel and by the incredible LACK of a heavenly host, but I have some thoughts on that. When the past few years has yielded such amazing epic films as The Lord of the Rings trilogy and The Passion of the Christ, we tend to expect every story of epic proportions to either measure up or exceed these standards. It’s just not going to happen. Both of my examples required an ENORMOUS amount of funding and commitment. Not every movie will have those two key things. I think the movie could have been better, but it was an interesting look into the lives of the people chosen for Jesus’ parents.
    By the way, I don’t think we need to look down on the thoughts they had Mary think in this version of the Nativity story. There is nothing new under the sun, Solomon tells us in Ecclesiastes. I’m sure someone at some point in “Bible times” felt jarred at the prospect of marrying a man she not only did not love, but barely knew. It would be difficult. Just because it was an expected custom does not make it any less strange to the individual. I think those feelings were legitimate possibilities for Mary. The only post-modern thing about her attitude at that point, or at any other point, was that she voiced her honest thoughts. Mary was a sinner, just like everyone else descended from Adam. She was pure in a lifestyle, not in every minute point of her life. She was tempted. She had emotions. She was striving to please God, but striving all the same. Indeed she was blessed, but not on her own merit. God could have chosen any woman.


  • WOW! So much to say. I can see both sides of the issue. I myself tend to by very black and white with how I interpret the Bible. BUt because I have seven siblings debates like this freely flow. This must be used to sharpen each other, not tear each other.

    Lucy: I cannot judge whether God has directly spoken to you or not. IF He has, then there will be scripture to back it up. God does not contradict Himself. And when I say scripture I mean taking ALL the verses (even the ones that seem contradictory) and reading them. Not just the Psalms. Personally I think what was written in the Psalms is slightly different now (not changed or watered down). Because then only the Jews were saved, and it was through the Law. When Christ came we are ALL able to be saved by grace. God hates sin, and He hates it when we impose on the grace we have, by sinning. If I were to continue living in sin, and waste the Blood I would be grieving Him. But to say that God hates the sinners themselves is not true. He hates the sin, the wickedness of their hearts, but the original person that He created and designed He does not hate. And therefore it is incorrect to say that He hates the sinner.

    Who can know the mind of God, that he should instruct it?

    I cannot know if God has directly told you that He hates sinners, but be extremely careful. The Bible says to “test the spirits” to make sure they are in line with Scripture; in this case they do not appear to be in line with all of the verses that concern God’s love for us. I don’t think it would say that “God so loved the world”, if He hated everything on it.

    As for creating an image or idol I don’t know. Alex I would be very interested if I could see your thoughts on that (Howard saw it but i didn’t)

    As long as you are not worshipping it, or making it any sort of idol is it ok? Couldn’t any object you have fall into danger of becoming an idol, and not just movies?

    I haven’t seen the Nativity Story, nor have I seen movies that show Christ. (I also love Ben Hur for keeping his image a mystery.) My brother has seen the Nativity Story, and he really loved it. My brother loves the Lord, and He would rather die that grieve the spirit through sinning. I’m inclined to believe that if it is a sin to see movies than the Lord iwll convict me of that. (Because I’m inclined to believe that the scripture can be interpreted in different ways on this issue…as long as I am not listening to someone with a perverse mouth Prov 8:13; nor putting any evil thing before my eyes Ps 101:3).

    Does God condemn all art? All creativity, because we are all sinners and all have sin tainting everything we do? Please, everyone, read the Scripture, follow the spirit, and not the flesh, and do not fall into legalism. We are saved by grace.

    I appreciate all your thoughts I feel challenged to restudy the Bible, not with my understanding but having my mind open to wrong decisions I have come to.


    Your Sister,

  • Dear Claire Marie (et all),

    If you read throughout the book of Hebrews, especially chapter 11, you will find that the Law itslf was only a “shadow of good things to come”(10:1), and that God had no pleasure in the burnt offerings and sacrifices that were made for their sin(ch.10). The Jews were not at all saved by the Law, for that would’ve been impossible before God(10:4). Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, Rahab, and any person, Jew or Gentile that was beloved by God before Christ came, was not saved by his heeding of the Law, but by the faith that was in his heart toward God and that city without a name, the Kingdom of God to come(ch.11). It was this faith and love for God that would cause them to desire to keep God’s Laws, and it was this faith that God counted in them for righteousness, not their obedience to the Law. Christ Himself confirms this idea in John 14:15,21,23 where it is our love for Him that is necessary for the proper growth of the good fruit of our obedience to His commandments(God’s commandments) and of the fruit of the Spirit.

    Because we as human beings are so imperfect, the way in which we think of and define certain characteristics of God is going to be somewhat if not almost totally twisted most of the time. When we speak of God’s “love” for us, I think that we could all honestly say that we don’t really know what kind of love this must be. It is certainly no love that I have ever shown anyone, nor has any other human shown it to me. It is a mysterious love far greater and different than anything we can ever put a finger on in this present life. If indeed then we aren’t quite sure what this love is, I believe that we should avoid speaking in general terms of “God loves all people but hates their sin” and rather start researching in the Scripture what God really does say concerning the wicked versus His people. God’s Word never changes, nor have there ever been different interpretations, different roads, that lead to the same truth. Let us all be of one accord and one Way, in Christ our Savior and God our Father, and through the Holy Spirit Who teaches us all things(John 14:26).

    Right now, I often use what is called Nave’s Topical Bible, a fairly old one, to research what the Scriptures say on different issues and topics such as the wicked, or God and His attributes. I highly encourage anone who does not have a topical Bible to look into getting one. I find it so very useful and a pleasure to just read through at times for great enlightenment on so many things that I never knew were in the Bible. It also saves a lot of time looking up scads of different references found in concordances.

    Here are some refrences from the New Testament concerning God and us:

    -John 17 (note verse 9)

    -Romans 9

    -II Corinthians 6:14-18

    -Romans 1:18-2:12

    On a last note, may I say that we are what we think and do, that our actions and thoughts, our good deeds and our bad are directly linked to our souls and whatever judgment is set upon them whether in body or in spirit, on earth or in hell. Our bodies would not be apart of us if our souls were not in them, if our brains were dead. When you say that God loves the sinner but hates the sin, you are not making any sense whatsoever. What then is the “sinner” as opposed to his “sin”. Without the sinner, there is no sin, and without the sin, there is no sinner. They both work together to create what God hates–the rejection of His Son. When God speaks of hating the deeds of the wicked in some Sciptures and then hating the wicked themselves in others, He is not speaking to two different entities, the wicked vs. their deeds, but to a single entity that is continually striving against God and His people with all his heart and his thoughts, which are manifest through the deeds of his mortal body. Our bodies are only the means by which we can express the thoughts and intents of our hearts and minds, which is why it is so vital that we be so careful not to let anything escape us in word or deed that misrepresents our Lord and His holiness.

    The reason that God does not hate us is because His Son is in our place. He chose this covering of Christ’s blood for us from the beginning of the world in order that His glory may be manifest through us for reasons possibly unbeknownst to us at this time. These things are impossible to understand, for we are not God. But we must know that in whatsoever we do, eating, drinking, looking at a magazine, watching a movie, praising a movie, walking down a sidewalk, or anything we can think of, it must be done to please the Lord and not man.

    I believe that art that is pure and beautiful, things that give joy to the body and heart apart from His Word, are given to us by God because He understands that sin has marred us so and has caused us to know much suffering; He desires that we would have a taste, just a tiny morsel on our tongues, of how beautiful life will be in the perfect Kingdom of God, how beautiful He is and how much more so than that. I know that much of the classic music, art, and literature that we have today are products of the hearts of wicked men, uncovered by the blood of Christ. But I believe the questions to be pondered concering these things are such: Does the art convey things that are forbidden by God, that are sinful and abomidable according to His Word? Does it in any way twist the meaning of Scripture or cause a bad light to fall upon God and His Word and what He intends for us through it? Am I continually seeking God’s guidance in the daily carrying of my cross, or am I trying to see things through my own eyes?

    As far as the Nativity Story is concerned, it delved into a subject that is very precious to God, and is therefore to be handled accordingly. The wicked care nothing for the sacred birth of Christ, much less His death, and are therefore unfit to create images and interpretations of it. Because of these things, I believe that the film is not glorifying to God, and should therefore not be praised by those who are to glorify God in their praise.

    We are all guilty of lifting up things that should not be lifted up. We are not perfect and will never on this earth know exactly what should be praised and what should not be. But it is our duty to strive for the better, for the higher ways, and to be thoroughly knowledgeable concerning the world, ourselves, and what God thinks of it all.

    And now for the clincher: Would your opinions toward this movie be the same if it was Brittany Spears or Madonna who played the role of Mary?

  • Emily: I have to research and study the Word for what you said. I jsut wanted to ask you AND Lucy what you mean when you say God hates the wicked. And what Lucy means when she says that God hated us, adn only after we were covered by the blood did we become able to eb loved. This directly contradicts Romans 5:8. but perhaps your meaning of God’s hate is different than I thought.

    I did not mean to imply that there are different interpretations of Scripture, there is absolute Truth. But many humans interpret it differently…what the Truth is is hard to say. I’ll write more later but it could have to be after Christmas.

    Of course Brittany Spears is the same sinner as I, and as Keisha. I admit it would turn me of more, but that is my human judgment. I would hope that I would view her the same as I would view Keisha.


  • I have not yet seen this movie, but will be seeing it tomorrow (Christmas Eve). I have read the comments on this post and to everyone who is saying they won’t be seeing this movie because of the actors lifestyles I have 2 questions for you: 1)Everyday, most of us, watch shows or movies with people who live ungodly lifestyles so why couldn’t we see this movie? and 2) We are not beyond the same sin; we should think of ourselves as the worst sinner. I know it’s hard to look at someone’s lifestyle and not judge them, but when we put it in perspective, we are all sinners. Just my thoughts.

  • I don’t believe in not seeing the movie because the actors are sinners. Just if Brittany Spears was playing Mary, it would seem a complete mockery of the Story…unless she truly repented from her sins and put Christ first in her life, than we get a little closer. But I till get more from the bible. And always will.


    I was not simply talking about Psalms. In the Old Testament, God hates sinners. If someone even accidentally touched the Ark while carrying it, they died immediately. They feared God. God carried the penalty of sins over generations. I can’t bring it all here, read Deuteronomy. (And again, that’s not the only book.) Why would God suddenly change His mind about that? Everything He does is perfect, right from the beginning.

    Does Hell sound like a place God would send people He loves? If He had this all-consuming love for sinners, would He really send them to Hell? Can you imagine how horrible Hell is? It was created for satan and his angels, which alone can send chills up your spine. Your nerve endings would never die, making ever single moment to miserable to imagine. And you would be stuck there forever, abandoned by God. We’ve always had the sweet reassurance on earth that God will always take us back, forgiveness is always within our grasp. But not in Hell. In Hell, You are alone.

    After my initial post about on this topic, and when Alex replied, God did answer me. And I don’t create them to be what I want them to be, sometimes He tells me to shape up, and stop, but not this time. I used to believe that God loved everyone, no matter what, and that really got in the way of fearing Him. After a listened to a sermon by Michal Pearl, God Hates sinners, I felt grounded. It socked me; I didn’t want to believe it. My bubble of comfort was popped. That’s when I truly started to fear the Lord.

    But going back to the Movie…The nativity was well acted, they just focused to much on the things that didn’t matter; wise men, marry’s struggle with marrying Joseph and such. I got a lot more out of the Passion. In that movie, they didn’t focus on the actor who portrayed Jesus as much as Jesus’ suffering. They focused on what He did, not what kind of person He was…Because we already know that, and perfection is impossible to imitate. The movie just brought to light what happened to Him.

  • Lucy,

    I guess I think there’s a HUGE difference in hating the sin and the evil, and hating the sinner. What do you have to say about Rom 5:8? I have read throuhg the Bible a couple times, and I study it ever day using various types of studying. I know that God hates evil, and hates the wicked way, and there are seven abominations to Him. His love doesn’t mean that He accepts these things, but rather He loves them SO much that He would send His Son to save them from them. Where in Scripture does it say that only after we are saved does He love us? Jesus ate, healed and kept company with plenty of sinners. I agree that most people do not have enough fear of God. But if that is the case it is a misunderstanding of what His love is. His love isn’t letting us do whatever we want.

    Stephanie: Good point. Why don’t we jsut cut any and all of that junk?

    I don’t feel that I’m living in a dream world, or trying to believe that God loves all of us. I don’t claim to understand why some people aren’t saved. I don’t claim to understand why if God is truly good, He couldn’t somehow use His power to save us all. But I certainly would NEVER claim that it is because God hates all sinners (myself included.) It sounds almsot legalistic. If God hates sinners, than He only loves you if your perfect, which we can never be. Hell si a horrible place, and a real place. But the one thing I know is that God does love us. Would you die for someone you hate? Would you suffer for someone you hate? Would you be crucified for someone you hate? No. This is only possible with love.

    Perhaps when you say hate I misunderstand you. Because of this I’d like you to clarify what you mean when you say hate. ANd do you, like Emily think that it is impossible for God to love us, while hating our wickedness?

    Also, why would I want to witness to people saying: Come serve this God that Hates you. In fact He hates you so much, He died to take you sins?

    Please present scripture that says God loves us only after we’re saved.

    -Still Unconvinced

  • Greetings!

    First, off-topic. I am just so, so blessed to have found this site… it is my first time here and the passion is just overwhelming. Keep up the great hearts!

    Going back, I’ll be seeing this film on about 30 minutes from now ‘coz today’s Christmas eve and start of my day-off from work. Some of my closest pals totally recommend it so I definitely have to check this out. If I can spend some bucks watching Happy Feet, why not this one!

    God bless you guys and still, have a very merry Christmas and a fabulous New Year ahead… Cheers towards a better life!

  • Claire,

    I think you missed my previous post…Read my thoughts there.

    And on the,—‘Come serve this God that hates you.’—Christ’s blood coveres our sins when we become saved, thats the Good News.

    “I don’t feel that I’m…trying to believe that God loves all of us…” Than what do you believe? Anyone who reads your post will say that thats what you believe in.

    Please present scripture? Read the entire bible, which you’ve said that you have already done. I have to, but I havn’t used a bible study, just prayed. (Not that I’m against bible studies, thats just the truth.) I like to listen to Michal Pearls teachings on things, though. Go to, to check him and his family out, if you want to. I ‘ve read the entire bible, not just one verse that says, ‘God hates sinners’ or ‘God loves sinners’, to come to my standpoint.


  • I, for one, respect Emily Walker’s decision to not see The Nativity Story (6th comment). It is refreshing to see someone who is willing to stand up for what they believe. Even if her fellow brothers and sisters in Christ don’t agree with her position, they definitely should not criticize or mock her. I think Paul’s discussion regarding meat sacrificed to idols in 1 Corinthians 10 applies here. If someone else thinks it is wrong to eat meat sacrificed to idols (watch a movie with an immoral actress), we should respect their belief, but if we don’t feel the same way we are in no way obligated to agree.

    Personally, I went to see The Nativity Story with family and friends, and we all enjoyed it very much. Reading the Biblical account of Christ’s birth gives us all of the story that we can know to be true, but the movie helps us (at least some of us) to appreciate and fully grasp the lowliness of the circumstances of Jesus’ birth. It helps us to see the story in a new light whenever we read it from the pages of the Bible.

    I’m sure God will use this movie as a tool to bring about great things is many lives.

  • Lucy,
    What I mean in that comment was this: I’m not making up that God loves us, because I can’t accept the idea that He hates us. I know He love us, I base my entire doctrine and life on this truth. Have you nothing else to say to my point about how it is totally irrational to say God hates us when He died for us, suffered for us, and changed us? God would not do this unless He loves us. This is the entire message of the Bible…Goodwill and peace towards men!

    Sorry, I know that was unclear.

    Many people mistake love to be this acceptance, like acceptance of homosexuality and other perversions. God’s love is not thus, His love us so much greater than that love because He loves those people enough to present them with Atonement: Jesus.I speak of the sacrificial love that was clearly and continually demonstrated throughout His actions toward us, yes that is how He loves us. He loves us enough to help us and atone for our sin, if we accept it. Everyone of us.

    If you are not basing your belief on scripture, like Rom 5:8, John 3:16, Gal 2:20 and henceforth, the whole Gospel message, and are simply basing it on prayer (which can easily be misguided by the devil) then I have nothing more to say.

    You believe God hates us all, and I believe God loves us all, although veyr few of us accept that gift.

    Have you nothing else to say to my last post?

    I would not base my doctrine on one man, I have never heard of Michael Pearls, nor will I visist his site because it directly blasphemes God.

    Jeff: Perhaps. But is it causing her to sin if we see it? Is it causing her to stumble> She refuses to see it because God hates the wicked. i would refuse to see it because it doesn’t glorify God. In a way I respect her, and have made many such choices as that (Psalm 101:3, and Prov 8:13) which eliminate almost all entertainment. But always because of the wickedness, not because of the wicked.

  • Wow, good point Jeff…I, for one, am able to watch movies and detect what was incorrect by reading the bible, etc….It’s not a big deal or struggle for me to watch movies like the Nativity and discern, but other poeple might be more sensitive to what the message of a movie is. Thanks for the reminder to respect others.


  • Another thing I wanted to add: I saw the Nativity today and thought it was excellent, though, not all of it was Biblically correct. I think that it is fine to share our thoughts and opinions on movies, but not to the point where we are pressing it on other people. We might add something in our comments such as “In my opinion” so that it does not seem as though we are trying to make other people think what we think. I respect all of your opinions even though I do not agree with all of them. That’s okay, though, not to the point where we are being self-righteous and in our hearts being prideful. These are just my thoughts and I wanted to let you all know that I respect your opinions. All of you: Have a wonderful Christmas filled with God’s peace and joy!! 🙂

  • “Does Hell sound like a place God would send people He loves? If He had this all-consuming love for sinners, would He really send them to Hell?”

    C.S. Lewis said that the doors of Hell were locked on the inside. If we refuse God’s offer of salvation, we choose Hell. In fact, we *must* go to Hell; otherwise God would not be just. Our sin requires payment, and if we will not let God pay for us, we will pay with ourselves in Hell. I believe God loves everyone and wants everyone to choose to spend eternity with Him, but He cannot force that choice.
    Lucy, was there something specific Michael Pearl said that caught your attention? You said his sermon socked you; I’d like to know how.

    By the way, Merry Christmas everyone!

  • Stephanie: I have a hard time respecting something that seems to contradict the entire point of the Bible. But perhaps I need to re-evalutate her point.

    Lucy: If God hates us, and sinners, then why does it say that “God is love”…can love and hate coexist? Why would the two greatest commandments be to love, if God hates?

    Why are whole books dedicated proving God’s love toward us (Hosea specifically chpt.11 and I John?)

    It doesn’t make sense, and I desperately want to know why it makes Biblical sense to you. It does say the fear of the Lord is to hate evil…not hate the evildoer.

    I tend to come across sounding very strong and angry and passionate, because I am (not necessarily angry,lol). I want to be a teachable person, and if I’m missing some major point I truly want to know. But there’s got to be scripture to back it up.

    I truly do not want this to turn into a debate…and I feel our writing has not been edifying or encouraging, and for this I am sorry. We are only supposed to say what imparts grace to the hearer, but I did not say it out of love…and so it was a clanging symbol.

    I’m sorry everyone if I have caused discord among you, this was truly not my intention.

    Merry Christmas!


  • Claire, I think I was probably the one to start the discord when I challenged what I believe to be a wrong idea in one of Lucy’s posts. It gives me mixed feelings now, when I see what has happened as a result.
    I hope good will come of this, in that we will all be encouraged to really examine our faith, and to study the scriptures diligently for the truth. But what I’m seeing now is a lot of bitter argument. Guys and gals, we may be at a point when it is no longer useful to keep discussing this. Our enemy is Satan, not each other.
    I am going to refrain from taking a parting shot, badly as I want to, and I’d like to encourage you all to do the same. (Realizing of course that a previous attempt to end this discussion failed.)
    Merry Christmas! God came.

  • Aryah, I want to thank you for challenging me! We should not keep silent about a subject so important! And it really made me think about my beliefs. I’m very passionate about this as well.

    You want to hear scripture? Go to the book of John and read the last verse in chapter three…It will tell you God’s wrath abides on those who do not believe on His Son. His –wrath- not His love, abides on those who are not saved.

    Well, what has that to do with sinning and sinners?

    Later in the bible, I don’t know the reference, but I’m sure everyone is familiar with it, it says when we become Christians, were dead to sin. That simple. We have a new walk, we have put away the old things and God makes us new. When we become saved, God doesn’t just ‘fix us up’…He makes us entirely new! That thought is so amazing to me…Why do you think think becoming a Christian is so wonderful? We are no longer slaves to sin.

    How did Michal Pearl’s ‘God hates sinners’ impact me specifically? I used to believe God had this overwhelming love for all people. It changed the way I saw God. I won’t tell you about Michal Pearl, you can make your own decision about him. All that I will say is that he is one of the only people I’ve heard preach that makes me excited about being a Christian. He teaches directly from the bible, and that, to me, is precious. I don’t condemn people who are not saved, Christ did not come to the world to condemn, but to bring them to repentance. But I certainly don’t pity them…That’s all. If any one is interested, I’ve found the correct link to his site It’s a nonprofit organization. He has free audio downloads on his site so you can ‘sample’ his teaching. You can order the sermon ‘God hates sinners’ and listen to it yourself and see what you think about it. Just go to the store and pick ‘bible teaching’.

    I’m a little curious as to why people addressed me, after I said God hates sinners, and told me-specifically, otherwise. Even after I said God told me I was not in the wrong. And I’m not trying to talk anyone into what I’m saying, I’m just standing by what I said earlier.

    I think I’m done posting on this subject, I’ve said all I’ve had to say. Thanks for hearing me out!



  • Just some thoughts I had as I was reading all these posts. 1 John 4 is all about God’s love,that He is love.Verse 19 says we love Him because He first loved us. That seems pretty clear to me. If God had not loved us first and expressed that love by promising a Messiah and fulfilling that promise so that we could have a reletionship with Him and a home in heaven then we would not love Him and in turn, we would not be able to love others as He has clearly commanded us to do. Next verse, jer. 31:3. His love is an everlasting love and it is because of this love that He draws us with His lovingkindness.
    I’m sorry if I tried to post this after everyone’s talked it all out. Please don’t post this if you feel it’s just causing more division among us because I don’t want that either.=)

  • Thanks for bringing that up Beth. Don’t worry about division, I don’t think any rebelutionary that has posted on this would let this devide them. 🙂

    God loved the future Christians enough to send His Son. He saw all the ones who would accept Christ as their saviour. God loves His children. First it was the Jews, and then He sent His Son to be a sin offering so the Gentiles could be His Children as well. And just to make it clear, I believe in showing love to unbelievers. Thats our job on earth, to show Christ’s love and mercy, judgment is God’s.

    I hope nobody thinks I’m stiff, angry or upset, because I’m not. And I’m not trying to argue my point. Just don’t expect me to say something like “God hates sinners” and not have words to back it up when people question it. (And, no, that was not directed at anyone in paticular. Thats just who I am.)

    In God’s hands.


  • Despite all the back-and-forth that’s been going on here I LOVED this movie. Any movie I can see that makes me appreciate my Savior more is good enough for me. It really brought the rejection and struggle that Mary and Joseph went through to life. I really have a deeper appreciation for Joseph, he had every right to have Mary stoned, but he chose to listen to God and marry her anyway. I know this may be redundant, but I don’t think enough positive things can be said about this movie.

  • Regarding the question of seeing films which include openly sinful actors: certainly “all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” Christians openly acknowledge their sin, but also openly strive to stay away from it. They never openly flaunt it: King David repented publicly of his adultery. Actors who extol their sin as good are by definition not Christians, and are condemned by the Bible (“woe to them that call good evil, and evil good”). The former verse contextually refers to the depravity of man, prior to faith. In these films, we understood that the conversation was referring to those who are not professing Christians, and therefore do not see a logical application of the verse as validation for seeing them.

    As to whether or not seeing such films is wrong, God does use His enemies to work His ends, and even to bless the righteous. Judas, though not regenerate, fulfilled Scriptural prophecies. Also, there is a measure of common grace given to all, and we are not forbidden in the Word of God to enjoy the talents of non-Christians. Moses used and benefited from the talents of a non-Israelite, one outside the covenant, who became his guide. Admittedly, as Rev. Wayne Rogers once said, there is often a “quiet exuberance” in the performances of Christians, since “the mark of sound doctrine given by our Saviour himself is its tendency to promote the glory not of men, but of God” (Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion). We would opine that it is not wrong to watch non-Christians act. However, what is possibly wrong is to support a (mostly) historical Christian film (The End of the Spear, The Nativity Story) in which the actors use their publicity from that film to promote and glorify their own sinful lifestyles. Notwithstanding, boycotting most Christian movies solely because of the inclusion of non-Christian actors is analagous to not listening to performances of splendid sacred symphonies dedicated to the glory of God because some non-Christians are in the orchestra: both situations would be lamentable.

  • Keisha did get pregnant, but she also has made wise descisions since then. She decided to raise the child and to marry the baby’s father (her boyfriend). This is, by the way, very detrimental to her extremely promising acting career, but she is taking the right path anyway. I think (I’m not sure) that the director of The Nativity Story praised Keisha for her strength in the decision to raise the child and to announce her pregnancy publicly.

    But regardless, we need to act like Christians in this issue. Dear sisters and brothers in Christ, we have been forgiven SO much! How can we not forgive in return? And, in this issue, we have not even been wronged!

    Two passages for our prayerful attention:

    John 8:1-11 ~ The Woman Caught in Adultery

    Matthew 18:21-25 ~ The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant

    I would strongly encourage you to read these passages.

    And finally, here are some verses about the love of God.

    “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through Him.”
    John 3:16-17

    “…God is love. In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.”
    1 John 4:8b-11

    “Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father, who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.”
    2 Thess 2:16-17

    May we grow more worthy of this great love each day.

  • Since I posted above, I’ve realized from the Bible that God does hate sinners. But He will also forgive them if they turn to Him, and love them with His everlasting love.

    Just wanted to clarify. 🙂

  • Keeli and Lucy, I think that God loves sinners; because otherwise why didn’t He just send us all to hell instead of dying for us??? We are all sinners, after all. And the Bible says;
    “Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.” (1 John 4:10) It says right there that he LOVED US when we were sinners. And Romans 5:8 says:
    “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”
    You don’t send your Son to die for any number of people that you hate.
    Not trying to start up any more discussion here, but that’s what the Bible says.

  • I was wondering… have any of you seen the movie ”Martin Luther”? And if you have, would you or would you not recommend it? My family was wondering if it would be a good movie to watch for Reformation Day(October 31-we don’t do Halloween).
    Some of my siblings are quite young(ages 9, 5, &3). Would the movie be appropriate for them too?

  • Hayley: My family watches “Luther” on Reformation Day (we don’t do Halloween either). I really enjoy watching it. It is actually quite accurate. But, it shows people in poverty, suffering, and death. This was a violent era in history. I would suggest your parents watch the film before deciding whether your younger siblings should see it. The rating is PG-13 for disturbing images of violence. Hopefully this helps you.

    Under God’s grace,
    Caleb R.

  • I will not be watching the movie for this reason.I believe that Jesus is so great that we should not make an image of Him.Even though the movie is for a good reason I can not put aside my faith my eye’s own pleasure.-your sister in Christ, Hannah

  • Hi! (i know this is years after the movie came out) but, i wanted to say that this is a great movie, and if you can see it, you should. Hannah, I have nothing to say just that I respect your decision on not seeing “The Nativity Story” I really don’t agree with you. but good choice just the same. Give all glory to God,ENT

  • I thought this movie was wonderful. Sure, it wasn’t completely accurate, but I believe that the majority of it was. And, by the way, I think Mary’s so-called “feminist” attitude was misinterpreted. As a teen, she naturally would have been attracted to someone her own age, and though she may have known marriage was coming, it still would have been a shock. So, I think that the whole feminist thing was kind of read into it by other people. But, yeah, good movie, highly recommended.

  • What’s with the hunting lease in west texas thing? weirrrd.

    I think this movie was very accurate (except for some small bits) and i thought it was beautifully shot, in a way that really makes the story real.

  • I know I’m kind of late — two-and-a-half years to be exact! — but I wanted to contribute my thoughts to the now-ended “Great GodandSinners Debate” on this page.

    Lucy mentioned John 3:36. This verse reads: “He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides upon him.”

    All right. Back to the Beginning. Directly after God created the universe He pronounced it “very good.” There was no sin, no evil; everything was perfect. Then Satan rebelled, along with a third of God’s angels, and he ended up in the Garden of Eden, where he tempted Eve and caused her to sin. Satan became the prince of this world, and evil reigned (until Christ’s resurrection, when He challenged death, fought it, and won a resounding victory)

    Before the Fall, God loved Adam and Eve — they were His creation, designed to glorify Him! Then they disobeyed Him, rejected His authority, figured they knew better than God. So He caused them to become mortal, to experience pain.

    But He loved them. God is perfect, He is Truth, He is righteousness, He is that which all Biblical standards are measured off of. He cannot endorse sin, live with it, be okay with it, or love it. But — He loves us. Incredible — but credible; we have God’s Word as testimony.

    John 3:16 says, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” Unbelievable — but as Christains we all have believed it, and have been SAVED! SAVED! Oh, what joy, what boundless, exhilirating, JOY! No longer are we slaves to sin — though our flesh may pull hard. Christ has knocked at the door of our hearts and we have let Him in — He is on the throne of our lives. Every temptation, every evil about us is still there, but we have God on our side; our flesh (in reality: principalities, powers, rulers of darkness of this age, spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places — see Eph. 6:12) doesn’t stand a chance. For if God is with us — who’s going to prevail against us? God loves us.

    John 3:36. “He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides upon him.”

    compared with

    John 3:16. “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

    After first glance (and second glance!), these verses flow together perfectly! Since when did being angry morph into being void of love? Have you ever been so mad at your younger sister or brother you desperately wished you could do something to help them? It is similar to the relationship between God and man. One thing, though — God does not get “mad.” “Mad” or “madness” stems from anger, but is mostly driven by emotions; it blinds people, often causing them to do terrible things. God does not get mad — but God is angry. He hates sin (remember God is the opposite of sin — God is Truth, while sin is rejection of The Truth) and He is angry at those men who do not repent.

    Did you know you never get angry over something — or someone — you are not concerned about?? Think about it; it’s true. God is angry at sinners; they are His creation and are rejecting Him, the Creator. He is hurting for them, His heart is breaking for them, He is agonizing terrible pain as He sees them close their eyes and their ears to His Call. You see He LOVES them — loves them more than can be imagined, as He says in His Word. He beckens them to come to Him, but they will not. He is angry — but His heart is breaking.

    Were we sinners before we allowed Christ Jesus to save us? Yes, we were — John 3:36 applied to us before we were saved. The wrath of God abided on us until we accepted his gift of salvation — we were not to see life before we were saved. Now, after we have accepted God’s salvation gift, we are to have everlasting life! But He loved us just as much before we were saved as He does now.

    “…he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on Him.” (John 3:36b)

    God has given all mankind a limited time – a lifetime – to accept His gracious mercy — but once this period is up and the filthy, unholy sinner faces God on the judgement seat, there is no going back. The wrath of God shall forever be upon him, he shall never see life; God will “disown” him: His love for this sinner will be ended.

    Christians no longer are subject to the wrath of God; but we fear him — a kind of respect and awe as we realize His great power, that we are His creation, how He is is all-knowing, infinite, and a hater of sin. We fear Him — but not His wrath. Ideally, we obey Him and fear Him because of our LOVE for Him, not out of obligation or intimidation. You see? Since we are God’s children, he chastens us, nudges us, helps us along the Way. He is not only our Master, Lord, and Savior — He is our father. He is a much more loving, caring, and compassionate Father than any mortal father (this only goes one way, by the way: Love God more — don’t love your father less; God appointed him in that position!) Being God’s child is something I’d never trade for anything — it’s an awesome experience.

    Remember this: God is angry at sinners; for they are His creation and are rejecting Him, the Creator. He is hurting for them, His heart is breaking for them, He is agonizing terrible pain as He sees them close their eyes and their ears to His Call. You see He LOVES them — loves them more than can be imagined, as He says in His Word. He beckens them to come to Him, but they will not. He is angry — but His heart is breaking.

  • I havent seen this movie but read the comments and things about it…
    but where in the Bible does it say that Jesus was born on christmas?
    My parents and i have had this conversation many times
    and never have come up with the answer.

  • Kia Ora,

    Wow…. guys this a lot of intense discussion going on here. Firstly, I would like to say that I love that movie. It has the ability to influence people’s lives in the sense that many non-christians may watch it and as a result have that seed planted in their heart, watered or harvested! Secondly, as a kiwi I wanted to let you know that Keisha Castle-Hughes is an amazing young actress who has succeeded in her career despite her age and the fact that she comes from a country as small as Aotearoa. Her daughter is now coming up to two years of age and she is the cutest thing you could imagine. I believe that it is not our position to judge how God chose to bring that young child into the world… but the fact is that he created her in her mother’s womb at that point in time for a specific reason and that it is no accident that she is here today. I congratulate Keisha on her courage for bring a child into the world at her age despite the media attention on the situation. It would have been easy for her to abort the beautiful child and take the easy way out, but God had a purpose and it overcame. So, lets not judge her… lets support and encourage her, because she had the courage to be responsible for her actions.

    So, this christmas maybe its time that you sit down with you family, flick on the telly and watch a good wholesome movie that depicts the struggles and triumphs that Mary went through all those years ago…. imagine what would have happened if she could have choosen to abort, or what if she had been stoned to death… lets be reminded that God has the ultimate plan for all of our lives, just like he did 2000 years ago.
    Haere ra!!!

  • This is my first post on this website-
    I love this movie very much. It makes me cry, it motivates me to be a true woman of God, and it even made me love God more.
    I think that the fact that the actress isn’t saved and has sinned should only mean one thing- we should pray for her. When tempted to judge someone, I think to myself “If I were famous, and even more so if I were not saved, I would sin, maybe behave even worse than any actress.” Because it’s true. That’s why all we can do is pray. If you don’t want to see the movie, that’s your choice. That’s ok. But it’s a good movie = )

  • TO Emily: I really don’t think we should be judging this girl on her actions in her real life. The Point of this review is to judge the movie NOT the actress’s life. I agree with you on my personal belief that what she did was wrong but judging this movie by what she did in her personal life is wrong. I think that people learn from their mistakes and that the Everyone who wants to could pray for the actress. Take Bristol Palin she is now raising a little boy and finished college and is making a better life for her son. Good Luck to the actress and Bristol.

  • I really liked this movie. Like you, I was pleasantly surprised by the accuracy. Being from a dominantly Roman Catholic country, I liked how the film depicted Mary’s humanity.

    I had only a little time to browse the comments here so I won’t address all the concerns raised. Here’s what I want to share:

    I know this film isn’t perfect, but by God’s grace, this film gave my dad a sense of the reality of Jesus’ existence & uniqueness (in history). He suddenly realized there may be more to this ‘Jesus’ than he thought previously. As a result, he became more open to hearing about the biblical Jesus, and less prone to entertaining all sorts of scandalous claims about Jesus (which was what he had been doing all his life, btw). The difference was obvious right after the movie, and so I am really grateful for this film, flaws and all.

    God be praised.

  • Me and my sister love this movie. My sister always chooses two movies every Friday when my dad is at are church rehearsal.(he plays in the band.) Guess which is one of them.

  • Greetings to you all!
    thanks everyone for standing up for what you believe; I didn’t take the time to read everything in depth,(if I had this comment would probably have been much longer! 🙂 )
    Charles McIntosh – What a beautiful description of the Lord’s Love for his chosen, and His grief at their disobeidence. Thanks sooo much, and may God bless you!
    All: This debate certainly gave some food for thought. Keep up the good work 🙂
    Alex and Brett: Both of you have been a great insperation, I feel God will definetly (and already has) used you to inspire, challenge and bless this generation and the next!
    Also, praise God for the bright witness you’ve been in regard to the passing of Mrs. Harris – we rejoice for her and mourn with you; our family will keep you in our prayers.
    Soli Deo Gloria!
    Rebelutionary-in-training, Becky

  • By the way our family watched The Nativity; it wasn’t my favorite movie, a bit to emotionaly based, but the costuming/setting was great and I thought it was interesting how they showed the human side of everyone (if you know what I mean)
    But I absolutly loved Facing The Giants, I think Sherwood Pictures does a fantastic job and I wholeheartedly appluade them along with other independent Christian film-makers. Alex, have either you or Brett seen Pendragon:The Sword Of His Father ? It’s produced by the Burnes family, home-schoolers, and is now one of our new found favorites! Phenominal costuming and sets! Thought you might like to know about it and maybe post it.
    Keep living full-out for God!
    Soli Deo Gloria! Becky

  • No idea if you actually get a chance to read all of these posts — you’ve got an group of followers! This is a topic I wish more people knew about and talked about! Thanks for writing about this !

  • Wow, I just finished reading all the comments on this article, and I must say it brought some things to my attention I hadn’t really thought about before. On the movie, my family watches it every Christmas since it came out, and while it has it’s flaws, I still consider it pretty good. I know that the discussion on the God hating the sin not the sinner/ God hating sinners and sin was a long time ago, but I wanted to say that I believe that it has opened my eyes to some things and while I don’t agree with everything said by the people that participated in it, I will definatly be looking into it more.

  • Alex,
    If you still get on here, I would be very interested in your opinion on the whole thing about God’s image and stuff, like what you gave Howard.

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